As a certified Dragon Age 2 Fanboy (TM), I'm obligated to submit that I liked the Dragon Age 2 romances just fine.
Especially Isabella. Rawr.
That was the romance i hated the most.
Bioware just puts romances because people need them. There is nothing i like about Bioware romances. It's just a game trend or a necessity these days.
Of course, people are entitled to their rightful opinions, but Bioware is always making a fatal mistake over and over. It's a medieval fantasy world, not 2012. Adjust the dialogues properly.
The only thing that made me look at Isabella twice was the fact that whenever she opened her mouth, it would be to say something involving c*ck. Sorry for the language.
The only thing that made me look at Isabella twice was the fact that whenever she opened her mouth, it would be to say something involving c*ck. Sorry for the language.
She's a pirate with a bawdy sense of humor. If anything, they were pretty conservative with her potty mouth.
And I would recently would not like Baldur's Gate to turn into a sausage fest, like Dragon Age did, especially since the Forgotten Realms setting does not, in a any way, reinforce such measures.
What exactly do you mean when you keep saying "sausage fest"? How did Dragon Age become as such, exactly?
And I would recently would not like Baldur's Gate to turn into a sausage fest, like Dragon Age did, especially since the Forgotten Realms setting does not, in a any way, reinforce such measures.
Does the FR setting make any point about sexual preferences?
BG1 had, what, 20 joinable characters? If FR had the same gay demographics as reality, 2-3 of those characters would statistically be gay. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but I once read a study which concluded that the majority of people have had erotic/romantic feelings towards their own gender at some point. It's not in any way unrealistic to include some gay/bi characters.
@Mornmagor I made a reference to the bioware romances too, I agree with most you said. Some of bioware romances are alright, some are a bit wierd and all of them are pushed on you. Also not sure if you noticed I said the ideal for a romance would actualy be one where you get to protect npc you empathize with, know about. And I would not be shocked at all if no sleep with option existed. Lol, that isabella, I'am not saying a npc like that couldnt exist but she is The fanservice all by herself
@Razor for me Isabella was the most uninteresting character to be honest. She-man Aveline was more interesting than her. Anyway :P
I would love an option to protect indeed, to go through hardship for the one you love, even to save an antagonist if you have feelings for them while paying the price, the dialogues triggered by such events would be epic. Like, she/he feels doomed about an enemy legendary after her/him, but against all odds you make the impossible and set them free, while it was certain you wouldn't make it, as no one could so far. Things like you see in some anime, Bleach or Fairy Tail or One piece, people willing to sacrifice themselves for their companions or they ones they love. The impact is great.
As for the gay /not gay thing, i honestly don't give a damn. By sausage fest he meant that the writing was poor, and it just came down to a sausage fest, not a deeply romantic relationship like the ones we described. That's what i understood at least.
I guess every character should be romanceable for both sexes, i don't like letting people with different sexual orientations out of the fun. It's not gay or not gay, it's how you write it. If i get the feeling that every person of the same sex just pushes himself to me to get me in bed, and that's all there is about the romance ( they were really shallow in DA2), then either there's something wrong with me, or with the game. If a lot of people complain about it as well, then it's not just my problem. It is the game.
@Maciak87, if you want to talk shit to people, at least back it up with links holding actual evidence of what you say.
"In the United States, according to exit polling on 2008 Election Day for the 2008 Presidential elections, 4% of electorates self-identified as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, the same percentage as in 2004"
Taken from wikipedia. The exit polling happened though.
In Europe the number can reach 2/10 people,depending on the country.
And I would recently would not like Baldur's Gate to turn into a sausage fest, like Dragon Age did, especially since the Forgotten Realms setting does not, in a any way, reinforce such measures.
Does the FR setting make any point about sexual preferences?
BG1 had, what, 20 joinable characters? If FR had the same gay demographics as reality, 2-3 of those characters would statistically be gay. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but I once read a study which concluded that the majority of people have had erotic/romantic feelings towards their own gender at some point. It's not in any way unrealistic to include some gay/bi characters.
Excuse me, but what you wrote is a complete pile of nonsense. According to a 2000 US Census Bureau report, less than 1% of all Americans are homosexual. The case with European countries is very similar - not a single one, through actual polling and study, turned up more than 1% of gay within their population. So yes, i do believe adding homosexual relationships as an enhancement is unncessary, instead of adding another one, either male or female.
Thats a non scientific source, thus irrelevant. In America, considering that they face such scorn (imagined or not) people will say they are straight. There isn't any study that's scientifically sound about the % of homosexual people in the world (if I'm wrong, please do post a link), nor is there one about bisexual people.
Romance in RPGs is not what i would like it to be, so far that is.
A romance is not like Skyrim, where you get married casually without even proper dialogues.
It most certainly is not like Dragon Age 2, don't let me start on that.
A proper romance in my humble opinion should be much more than getting a date or satisfying "needs" as you call it.
It's not something casual, only involving party banter.
It is a romantic story, a questline maybe, something that involves or is involved with plot twists, does not necessarily need to be with your party members, it could be even with an antagonist of some sorts.
A romance is so much more than getting your interest in bed, it should be something grand, something like a tale unfolding in front of you in which you participate, not a necessity to find an in game partner.
Aka, i don't like the current romance system in games. I like romances as part of a story that unfolds a story of it's own, not a conclusion of 5 party banter dialogues.
I get the feeling i'm not describing it as i should, then again i'm not a native english speaker.
In other words, romance could be a whole different questline, or a questline that involves a romantic story, not necessarily with your party members.
What if I want to romance only NPC vegetarians. I cant romance a non-vegetarian cuz in RL i hate meat etc. No one wants to know who is gay and who not and who has what fetish. This whole coming out in a way some people does it is pretty annoying to me.
Wikipedia is perfectly reliable when actual surveys were made, that they simply write about. Your "sources" exist as numbers in the right side of the sentences. Learn to use them. Sources must exist for Wikipedia to write about them, enough with the Wikipedia not being accurate.
Here is an example for Great Britain.
"HM Treasury and the Department of Trade and Industry completed a survey to help the Government analyse the financial implications of the Civil Partnerships Act (such as pensions, inheritance and tax benefits). They concluded that there were 3.6 m gay people in Britain—around 6% of the total population or 1 in 16.66 people"
As for USA, LGBT demographics of the United States i guess is bullshit as well?
According to a Williams Institute survey conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.5% of American adults identify themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual, while 0.3% are transgender—approximately 11.7 million Americans.
Source - Gates, Gary J. (April 2011). "How many people are lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender?". Williams Institute, University of California School of Law.
And one more thing Maciak87, where are your arguments and sources. When you start something , YOU back it up, not waiting for others to bring arguments without providing anything.
Oh you wanted only homosexuals? Bisexuals don't count? I rest my case with this bullshitery.
Damn near all of it. It sounded like you were trying to compare innate facets of one's personality like homosexuality to choices like vegetarianism. But, that couldn't be right, so I assumed I misread.
Actually i think he's talking about table 2 in Smith, David M.; Gates, Gary J. (August 22, 2001). "Gay and Lesbian Families in the United States: Same-Sex Unmarried Partner Households". Retrieved January 26, 2011. (source 98 in the wikipage). However to quote the document: "It is our view that the 2000 numbers for same-sex unmarried partner households are a dramatic increase from 1990, but the total number still represents an undercount of the actual number of gay or lesbian coupled households in the country. Possible explanations for this include continued prejudice and discrimination against gay people." It also goes on to state that it doesn't count single people or actually ask about people's orientation.
@Schneidend See, you need to clarify the homosexual thing first as just to accept that this is just a game! It´s boring realy. So I say happy gaming honey;)
What an pointless argument,hehe. All should stop at once, all this will never end. You could perhaps change over to attacking my bad spelling and grammer. lol
Norway: 2.8% gay and 0.7% lesbian, giving an result of 1.75% total
This was done in Oslo, so it is not representativ for the hole contry, Oslo has by far the most homosexsual in norway, so a gues would be that about 0.5% of norways population is gay...
"Undersøkelsen ble gjennomført i Oslo, Norges ubestridte homo-hovedstad. Fordi miljøet og tilbudet er mye større, og fordi det er enklere å leve åpent i en storby, flytter mange homofile til hovedstaden. Over halvparten av alle homofile og lesbiske partnerskap i Norge blir f.eks. inngått i Oslo." Resume: half the marrige(gay) done in norway is done in Oslo...yet in this city under2% is gay.... Perhaps Norwegian are more masculine than other people,lol
This was done whit single YOUNG people of course, the purpose of the resertch was to find out acurately how many gay there is in Norway. Norway is one of "the best" contry to live in if you are gay, so they wanted numbers on how many there are, so they can help them living more freely whitout prejugemnts ... There ARE UNDER 1% gay in norway, thats a fackt.
The result done 10 years before showed less, so the numbers is growing, but it still is very few gay people...
En fransk undersøkelse blant tyve tusen personer ga nesten identiske tall: 1,4 prosent av mennene og 0,4 prosent av kvinnene hadde hatt sex med personer av samme kjønn i løpet av de fem foregående år. Prosentandelen av homofile i London og Paris viste seg å være tre ganger høyere enn i resten av landet. De britiske og franske forskningsresultatene ble utførlig beskrevet i det anerkjente tidsskriftet Nature, 3. desember 1992.
A french research counting 20 000 people gave almost the exact same numbers as in norway. 1.4% of the menn and 0.4% of the woman had sex whit same sex last 5 years. The numbers in the capitals where almost 3 times as high as in the rest of the contry......etc...
Please stop talking about this? In the past the developers wrote romances without any of this discussions and because they felt it was interesting, thats how it should continue. Each npc has a personality, it should be respected.
@Schneidend See, you need to clarify the homosexual thing first as just to accept that this is just a game! It´s boring realy. So I say happy gaming honey;)
Okay, that time I literally didn't understand that. What?
As for the article,,, 5000 people asked doesn't seems to be that many (i think, reading Norse is horrific for my lil dyslexic mind ^^*) and the article hasn't been published yet. Sides, that's a secondary source or even a tertiary source. But yeah, I do agree, while this argument is kinda fun to read, its getting a tad out of hand ^^*
this research was also done by "youth in norway/ Ung i Norge, witch ended up whit almost the exact same numbers as the bigger reserach. This was done in the groupe 13-18 years old, done whit 40k youth, same numbers... Every reaserch done in norway shows the same numbers. LOL! The organizations witch fight for gay right( in norway) has also sayed that the numbers must be right. Go figure
As for the article,,, 5000 people asked doesn't seems to be that many (i think, reading Norse is horrific for my lil dyslexic mind ^^*) and the article hasn't been published yet. Sides, that's a secondary source or even a tertiary source. But yeah, I do agree, while this argument is kinda fun to read, its getting a tad out of hand ^^*
I can get you the article from the main source as well. We had to do a project on school on this, witch I got an A on by the way :-)
But as you sayed, this has gone out of hand, but if someone would have "proof" on this, i can gather it and show, at least in scandinavia, mainly there I have seen reaserch from, there is no more than 1-2, perhaps 3 % gay. As for sexsual fantasys etc, there hasnt been done any proper reaserch on that as far as I know.
But folks, lets end this whit this post, shall we?
Comments
Especially Isabella. Rawr.
Bioware just puts romances because people need them. There is nothing i like about Bioware romances. It's just a game trend or a necessity these days.
Of course, people are entitled to their rightful opinions, but Bioware is always making a fatal mistake over and over. It's a medieval fantasy world, not 2012. Adjust the dialogues properly.
The only thing that made me look at Isabella twice was the fact that whenever she opened her mouth, it would be to say something involving c*ck. Sorry for the language.
@Schneidend They are gamers I guess, my point is facebook games players don't play much else, meaning are hardly target customers
BG1 had, what, 20 joinable characters? If FR had the same gay demographics as reality, 2-3 of those characters would statistically be gay. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but I once read a study which concluded that the majority of people have had erotic/romantic feelings towards their own gender at some point. It's not in any way unrealistic to include some gay/bi characters.
Lol, that isabella, I'am not saying a npc like that couldnt exist but she is The fanservice all by herself
I would love an option to protect indeed, to go through hardship for the one you love, even to save an antagonist if you have feelings for them while paying the price, the dialogues triggered by such events would be epic. Like, she/he feels doomed about an enemy legendary after her/him, but against all odds you make the impossible and set them free, while it was certain you wouldn't make it, as no one could so far. Things like you see in some anime, Bleach or Fairy Tail or One piece, people willing to sacrifice themselves for their companions or they ones they love. The impact is great.
As for the gay /not gay thing, i honestly don't give a damn. By sausage fest he meant that the writing was poor, and it just came down to a sausage fest, not a deeply romantic relationship like the ones we described. That's what i understood at least.
I guess every character should be romanceable for both sexes, i don't like letting people with different sexual orientations out of the fun. It's not gay or not gay, it's how you write it. If i get the feeling that every person of the same sex just pushes himself to me to get me in bed, and that's all there is about the romance ( they were really shallow in DA2), then either there's something wrong with me, or with the game. If a lot of people complain about it as well, then it's not just my problem. It is the game.
"In the United States, according to exit polling on 2008 Election Day for the 2008 Presidential elections, 4% of electorates self-identified as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, the same percentage as in 2004"
Taken from wikipedia. The exit polling happened though.
In Europe the number can reach 2/10 people,depending on the country.
I'm not supporting anything, just stating facts.
Here is an example for Great Britain.
"HM Treasury and the Department of Trade and Industry completed a survey to help the Government analyse the financial implications of the Civil Partnerships Act (such as pensions, inheritance and tax benefits). They concluded that there were 3.6 m gay people in Britain—around 6% of the total population or 1 in 16.66 people"
Source - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/dec/11/gayrights.immigrationpolicy by official government survey.
As for USA, LGBT demographics of the United States i guess is bullshit as well?
According to a Williams Institute survey conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.5% of American adults identify themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual, while 0.3% are transgender—approximately 11.7 million Americans.
Source - Gates, Gary J. (April 2011). "How many people are lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender?". Williams Institute, University of California School of Law.
Link - http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf
And one more thing Maciak87, where are your arguments and sources. When you start something , YOU back it up, not waiting for others to bring arguments without providing anything.
Oh you wanted only homosexuals? Bisexuals don't count? I rest my case with this bullshitery.
To argue, you need arguments, not thin air. Conveniently leaving without providing arguments.
Yeah, the door is that way.
"It is our view that the 2000 numbers for same-sex unmarried partner households are a dramatic increase from 1990, but the total number still represents an undercount of the actual number of gay or lesbian coupled households in the country. Possible explanations for this include continued prejudice and discrimination against gay people."
It also goes on to state that it doesn't count single people or actually ask about people's orientation.
LOL :P
http://www.idag.no/debatt-oppslag.php3?ID=1982
Norway: 2.8% gay and 0.7% lesbian, giving an result of 1.75% total
This was done in Oslo, so it is not representativ for the hole contry, Oslo has by far the most homosexsual in norway, so a gues would be that about 0.5% of norways population is gay...
"Undersøkelsen ble gjennomført i Oslo, Norges ubestridte homo-hovedstad. Fordi miljøet og tilbudet er mye større, og fordi det er enklere å leve åpent i en storby, flytter mange homofile til hovedstaden. Over halvparten av alle homofile og lesbiske partnerskap i Norge blir f.eks. inngått i Oslo." Resume: half the marrige(gay) done in norway is done in Oslo...yet in this city under2% is gay.... Perhaps Norwegian are more masculine than other people,lol
The result done 10 years before showed less, so the numbers is growing, but it still is very few gay people...
A french research counting 20 000 people gave almost the exact same numbers as in norway. 1.4% of the menn and 0.4% of the woman had sex whit same sex last 5 years. The numbers in the capitals where almost 3 times as high as in the rest of the contry......etc...
You may use google translate
So what now, you make an assumption of number based on how many gay households exist?
As for the living together not equaling marriage, marriage is the issue here? Or a relationship?
I get the feeling you didn't read that either, since it talks about the number of gay households.
Number of gay households =/= number of gay people.
Edit : I'm straight, and to be honest i don't give a damn if romances in general are in games, much less gay romances.
The fact that we sit here and "argue" about how many gay people exist, is sad.
Ending my part in this here. We had some nice things said about how we want romances, and then it went down hill.
As for the article,,, 5000 people asked doesn't seems to be that many (i think, reading Norse is horrific for my lil dyslexic mind ^^*) and the article hasn't been published yet. Sides, that's a secondary source or even a tertiary source. But yeah, I do agree, while this argument is kinda fun to read, its getting a tad out of hand ^^*
I mean Happy gaming:)
But as you sayed, this has gone out of hand, but if someone would have "proof" on this, i can gather it and show, at least in scandinavia, mainly there I have seen reaserch from, there is no more than 1-2, perhaps 3 % gay. As for sexsual fantasys etc, there hasnt been done any proper reaserch on that as far as I know.
But folks, lets end this whit this post, shall we?
I deleted it because i was raging.