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Do You Want Your BG1 Party Imported into BG2:EE?

g314g314 Member Posts: 201
edited August 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I know it's too early, but I've seen several threads about this topic already. While I can understand there are some problems with it, I think it's not entirely impossible to include the old BG1 NPCs anyway sooner or later, without changing too much from the original game.

I believe there are many people here who want at least one of these characters. So, like they say... let's see the numbers!

Keep in mind that:
PhillipDaigle said:

While it's a bit early to talk about BG2EE content, it's likely that we will be bringing these three NPCs forward into BG2. As for other NPCs - we most likely won't be bringing any of them into BG2 that aren't already there. And as for where you find the new NPCs in BG2, that is still under wraps.

  1. Do You Want Your BG1 Party Imported into BG2:EE?341 votes
    1. Yes, consinstency is very important to me. And if not at release, I hope they'll include them as paid DLC at least.
      70.67%
    2. No, I'm sticking with the canon party. If you really want the old NPCs, wait for modders to make them for you.
      29.33%
«134

Comments

  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Posts: 201
    Yes! For me it would be great to at least have the option to start with the companions that were with you at the end of BG 1. However, It´s probably an utopia. First thing that comes to mind is the contract stuff and devs not being able to change the original game. And secondly, it probably would break the game´s story a bit, I think.

    But yes, it would be neat and I would love it.
  • raywindraywind Member Posts: 289
    im not voting because i rarely use any npc.. seen them all allready so 99% of my games are solo. maby i will use the new ones.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    I think it would be kinda neat, but It is not important to me.
  • g314g314 Member Posts: 201
    edited August 2012
    MooseChangerPat said:

    I would say yes under normal circumstances, but what your asking for is truly pretty impossible. It would require too much drastic changes to the story line for them to ever get the rights to accomplish it, and several of the characters you could take forward have their own plot events they're wrapped up in. For example, Edwin is working with the Shadow Thieves, and Xzar is working against the Harpers.

    Not really, actually. Adding them would require some changes, I know, but nothing really big if you play with the canon party. Edwin may be replaced by... I don't know a generic mage? But if you didn't bring him with you, then you'll find him in Mae'Var's guild as expected. The same can be applied to all the others characters. If you don't import, for example, Xzar from BG1, then you'll find him near the Harper building as normal. No changes.

    Quoting myself from another thread:
    g314 said:

    Not that I'm saying every single one of them should be somewhere in Amn, but only if you defeated Sarevok with them. Getting them in the pocket plane in ToB makes sense as well.

    [snip]

    How about this?

    - Imoen stays, obviously (even if you didn't keep her in your party).
    - You have Jaheira and Khalid in your party. Khalid dies. No changes (mods are still possible).
    - Jaheira died in BG1 and you kept Khalid in your party. New banters and quests.
    - You have Minsc and Dynaheir in your party. Dynaheir dies. No changes (mods are still possible).
    - Minsc died in BG1 (oh man, how could you?) and you kept Dynaheir in your party. New banters and quests.
    - You have Edwin in your party. Someone else will serve Mae'Var (Yoshimo?).
    - You have Viconia in your party. In Athkatla she will be kidnapped and you must save her. No changes.
    - You have Xan, Yeslick, Alora, Kivan, Branwen, Shar-Teel, or Kagain in your party. If not, you'll never meet them again in BG2, except in your pocket plane if you wish, like anybody else.
    - You have Eldoth and/or Skie in your party. New banters and quests.
    - You have Ajantis in your party. Keldorn (and Anomen?) will recognize him.
    - You have Faldorn in your party. There will be another Shadow Druid to defeat. She could even betray you.
    - You have Xzar and/or Montaron in your party. Chances are you don't have Khalid and Jaheira, but whatever the case, someone else will replace Xzar and Montaron in the Harper's Guild.
    - You have Safana and/or Coran in your party. If not, you will find them both in Chapter 6. No changes.
    - You have Quayle in your party. He will recognize Aerie in the circus. You can still choose who will stay or leave your party.
    - You have Tiax in your party. If not, you COULD still save him from Spellhold. You're not forced to take him with you, though.
    - You have Rasaad, Neera, and/or Dorn in your party. New banters and quests.

    Again, yes, it DOES change something, but if you keep the canon party you won't see any differences whatsoever. This is how I see it. Yes, it would be a monumental work, I'll give you that, but I'm not asking for an immediate release. I can see a potential for replayability. Modders did succeed in making them, so why can't Overhaul?
    MooseChangerPat said:

    I feel for you, truly I do, and I wish that I could have my old party from BG1 in BG2, but I'm afraid that really is simply impossible.

    And I thank you for the encouragement so much that I gave you a 'Like,' but I think you should have voted by following your desire, not what you expect/fear. =)

    I'm too kind of pessimistic about it, especially after what Overhaul said (quoted in the OP). But we don't know precisely what Overhaul can do and what they're not allowed to do. Officially, they say that it's LIKELY that the old NPCs won't be there, not that is plain impossible. Give it a chance!
    Post edited by g314 on
  • pablo200783pablo200783 Member Posts: 96
    edited August 2012
    Miss for old team buddy if they back from BG1EE it will be nice addition on BG2EE.
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    It sounds like a modder's work to change this. Too much to change, and the changes are too much up to personal taste. Adding ALL of the NPC's would also flood the game with people wanting to travel with you, stretching believability and overwhelming new players.
  • Flameguard27Flameguard27 Member Posts: 37
    I would like for the issue to be addressed in BG1 or just the first dungeon in BG2(hopefully there are no limitations to what can be done in DLCs), to explain why you have that specific party, and what happened to your endgame party( Imoen still needs to be there in order for the story of BG2 to take place, after all, khalid's and dynaheir's deaths also are quite important). I don't think that bringing back all the NPCs in BG1 is really an option, that's too much content to be made.
    I think that if they added three new companions, they would at least explain what happened to them. The cheapest solution would be to explain that with the new cinematics.
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    I would really like it if the crossover between BG1 & BG2 was a little more dynamic or at least recognise that when players were not travelling with Jaheira, Minsc and co. I would like to see some of the BG1 NPC's make it into BG2 (and even a bit more of a crossover with loot as well), though I don't think everyone should. Nor should they all appear in the dungeon with you in my opinion.

    I'm not against one or two of them turning up there, but I think it would be better if a lot of them were found outside of the dungeon. All that really needs to be done for parties that weren't traveling with Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen etc is to have an explanation that you were captured later and that some of your party were either away or escaped the ambush.

    I don't think that NPC's who do appear should be changed, like Edwin who appears at the Thieves Guild. If he escaped or left your party after Sarevok's defeat then he's not likely to care that much that you got captured and it makes sense that he's off doing his own thing.

    So in short I would like some carry over from BG1 in terms of NPC's (and loot/gear), but with no great changes to existing BG1 NPC's already in BG2.
  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    My party doesn't bother me. I just want all my bloody stuff that in finished game one with.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    I don't so much want just my BG1 party to import as I want Overhaul to fix the utterly stupid intro to BG2 entirely. As I said in another thread, you and Imoen should have been the only ones captured, his dungeon should have been balanced for an Imoen + PC duo (with the possibility of recruiting Yoshimo if you so desired), and Irenicus and Bodhi should have stolen your souls right before the Shadow Thieves showed up.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Schneidend said:

    I don't so much want just my BG1 party to import as I want Overhaul to fix the utterly stupid intro to BG2 entirely. As I said in another thread, you and Imoen should have been the only ones captured, his dungeon should have been balanced for an Imoen + PC duo (with the possibility of recruiting Yoshimo if you so desired), and Irenicus and Bodhi should have stolen your souls right before the Shadow Thieves showed up.

    So you can spend even more of the game suffering/dying due to "lack of soul"? :)
  • JordOfTheDeepJordOfTheDeep Member Posts: 9
    Ok, I can see why people do not want to import the party because naturally that is going to incur a ton of new content. (Plus the fact that it looks pretty unlikely at this point) But I do want at least some explanation of what happened to the party members I recruited and fought with in BG 1 who don't appear in the sequel. (Such as Kivan, Shar Teel and Kaigan etc.) Instead of having it as it is at the present moment where they seemingly disappear from the face of Faerun altogether with no explanation given.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    I would like to import my BG1 party, but that is a little matter. It should already widely known that due to contract limitations they can't change original content, which means we would basically be starting with standard BG2 team. So I don't even have any hope for DLC. If any hope, I will entrust it to modders.
  • ChippyChippy Member Posts: 241
    Characters that were forgotten would be good - like Yeslick.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    shawne said:



    So you can spend even more of the game suffering/dying due to "lack of soul"? :)

    Yes. Regardless of how you feel about rescuing Imoen, saving your own hide from a wasting death is an undeniable motivator.

    Also, the ability to turn into thrash metal band Slayer would make collecting 15k gold all the easier. Just go on tour.
  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    If I remember correctly, it was said in the intro to BG2 that you left Baldur's Gate due to rumors going around that you shared the same lineage as Sarevok. To my knowledge, you actually go alone and it was just that Imoen, Jaheria, Khalid, Minsc, and Dynaheir came to find you because they like you. Or at least that's what I seem to recall Minsc saying before 'you' break him free from his cell. I know you could say that so and so NPC would come and find me should I travel off on my own or what have you... but it seemed to me like those five were the ones who had just the right mix of caring, stubbornness, and attitude to come after you if you went missing. So it seems to me that it was also a bit of a writer's choice as well when it came to who got stuck in the dungeon with you.

    I also suspect they may actually throw in one more person into the Dungeon for BG2:EE since they created 3 new NPCs that you can travel with and romance in BG1:EE. Likely they'll set it up to have priority on which one you were romancing if you took more than one of them in your party, and otherwise whichever they felt would be most plot relevant. The reason I suspect they may do this is because there is room for one more in Irenicus' dungeon even should you take Yoshimo, so there would be no party conflict in doing so.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    JordOfTheDeep said:

    Ok, I can see why people do not want to import the party because naturally that is going to incur a ton of new content. (Plus the fact that it looks pretty unlikely at this point) But I do want at least some explanation of what happened to the party members I recruited and fought with in BG 1 who don't appear in the sequel. (Such as Kivan, Shar Teel and Kaigan etc.) Instead of having it as it is at the present moment where they seemingly disappear from the face of Faerun altogether with no explanation given.

    It's not that they disappear - you do. :) You're basically teleported from Baldur's Gate to Amn, and a mercenary like Kagain wouldn't really care one way or another... :)
  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    @Shawne That's kind of what I was saying xD
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    MooseChangerPat said:

    @Shawne That's kind of what I was saying xD

    I just meant that's why you don't need an update on your BG1 party: someone like Kagain or Shar-Teel would just go back to doing whatever they were doing before you found them.
  • g314g314 Member Posts: 201
    Forgive me, @shawne, but I must have missed your first post while responding to @MooseChangerPat.
    shawne said:

    Not participating because the options here are skewed - I don't want my BG1 party imported, but it has nothing to do with the "canon party".

    Well, when I made this option I didn't think about 'skewing' it. But at the end of the day, it doesn't change much. One option is asking for change, the other is not. Option #2 simply means: "Keep it the way it is." It's *NOT* implying that you must have the canon party to get it in BG2, but that whatever your BG1 party is, you eventually get the canon party in BG2. So you're "sticking with the canon party." That's what I meant. I didn't mean to stir up a controversy.

    Look, I want to be crystal-clear about this: I'm not this stupid to ask for a change without letting the opposition speak. One: because it's not in my nature; and two: because I know this wouldn't ever work and end up with killing the thread. I may be biased because I would like to change this particular part of the game, but I'm not trolling you. I don't want to make enemies with you for such a ridiculous matter. We do disagree about it, and that's OK, but I had no intention of distorting these options. And no, I can't edit poll options. Just take this poll the way it is and vote... or not. I'm just looking for real numbers.
  • JordOfTheDeepJordOfTheDeep Member Posts: 9
    @shawne Well damn, you got me there. :D But honestly, I would like to know their eventual fate after you disappear, and there are reasons they can make an eveantul apperance in the second game without being captured and tortured by Irenicus. For instance the Kivan mod has Kivan departing after you killed Sarevok only come looking for you after he hears you've disappeared and in another mod for BG2 Kaigan arrives in Athkatla escorting some merchant wagons (Which was his business). In order to find out their fates though it doesn't necessarily mean that they have to be there in person, you could run into people they know or something like that (Cause Athkatla is not really that far away from Baldur's gate in geography terms) and they fill you in on their current situation etc. I know what I request may seem to much as it is going to create loads of new content but as I say I do want to know what eventually happened to them. As I am sure lots of people would if you bought a character along with you for the entirety of the game only for them to exit with no explanation given.
  • spacejawsspacejaws Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 389
    I do like the idea of adding older NPC's but no so much changing the Canon party. As much as I despised having a part pigeonholed for me and would have rather started solo(still finding yoshimo) and finding old allies in athkatla. That descision has long since been made and can't really be rectified, I would appricieate is some quests with older characters did lead them to be recruitable. Such as Xvar and Monteron (could open the quest further after conclusion, saving monteron? etc.) They don't even need personalities past the statements they make when i click em, I've played the game so much that being able to use a different (classic)team without excessive modding would make my day.
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    It would be nice to see some return (though not with you in the dungeon for the most part), but not all of them. Some should stay where they are and cameos should stay the same because BG2 would be flooded if most or all of them returned.

    Though at the very least I would like an explanation in game why you are in the dungeon with Jaheira, Minsc etc, but I think even that may be impossible for Beamdog to do.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    g314 said:

    Well, when I made this option I didn't think about 'skewing' it. But at the end of the day, it doesn't change much. One option is asking for change, the other is not. Option #2 simply means: "Keep it the way it is." It's *NOT* implying that you must have the canon party to get it in BG2, but that whatever your BG1 party is, you eventually get the canon party in BG2. So you're "sticking with the canon party." That's what I meant. I didn't mean to stir up a controversy.

    As I said, it's an issue of unclear wording. The second option seems to suggest that if I don't want the BG1 party imported, it's only because I want the BG2 party. And I don't. I kick Minsc to the curb at my earliest opportunity because that's my RP. Players who dislike Jaheira and Imoen probably do the same.
    g314 said:

    Look, I want to be crystal-clear about this: I'm not this stupid to ask for a change without letting the opposition speak. One: because it's not in my nature; and two: because I know this wouldn't ever work and end up with killing the thread. I may be biased because I would like to change this particular part of the game, but I'm not trolling you. I don't want to make enemies with you for such a ridiculous matter. We do disagree about it, and that's OK, but I had no intention of distorting these options. And no, I can't edit poll options. Just take this poll the way it is and vote... or not. I'm just looking for real numbers.

    I've never thought that you're trolling me, and I certainly don't consider you an enemy. It's just that IMO, the discrepancy isn't important enough to suggest such serious alterations to the game, especially since it's so easily handwaved: Irenicus is abducting people he thinks are close to you. When I found Minsc in that cage, my reaction wasn't "Retcon!", it was "Well, looks like the old man isn't quite as omniscient as he thought, I have no idea who this guy is. Still, his mistake is my gain, at least for now."
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    I always thought that there were others who might follow as well for different reasons. Yeslick pretty much has no where to go and you saved his life AND helped him get vengeance. Eldoth is pretty much and adventurer through and through and if you helped him with Skie, I'm sure he'd want to stay with you for profit anyways. I love Safana and was pissed that she died... (that's just me), and what about Tiax? Yea he appears there too, but he might follow you thinking you're following him. All those NPCs making cameos was interesting until SO many of them did that it just felt like name dropping.

    I disagree with importing the party, but i DO agree with some continuity and closure in areas where there are absolutely none.
  • g314g314 Member Posts: 201
    shawne said:

    I kick Minsc to the curb at my earliest opportunity because that's my RP. Players who dislike Jaheira and Imoen probably do the same.

    Yeah, I did the same with Jaheira since I didn't like her, but I found many problems when doing this. First, BioWare decided to give her more importance (after Imoen) with the Harper thing. If you ignore her, you probably wouldn't survive the first dungeon, since she's the only healer available (unless you're a cleric or a druid yourself). If you ditch her after the dungeon, you will miss many related quests and some powerful items (such as the Ring of Wizardry when the Harpers attack you).

    Minsc, on the other hand can be easily replaced as there's an abundance of good fighters in the game (Korgan and Mazzy come to mind, who BTW I disliked), but you would miss a lot of hilarious lines from him, since I believe BW bet quite a lot on Jim Cummings.
    shawne said:

    It's just that IMO, the discrepancy isn't important enough to suggest such serious alterations to the game, especially since it's so easily handwaved: Irenicus is abducting people he thinks are close to you. When I found Minsc in that cage, my reaction wasn't "Retcon!", it was "Well, looks like the old man isn't quite as omniscient as he thought, I have no idea who this guy is. Still, his mistake is my gain, at least for now."

    I see where you're coming from with this, yet you do see a discrepancy after all. You just accepted it's the canon, because BW handwaved this part for those who didn't (and still don't) play BG1 at all. I agree it may not be that important for you, but this might be subjective. From my point of view, handwaving is what kills consistency, which is one of my top priorities when writing a story.
    shawne said:

    As I said, it's an issue of unclear wording. The second option seems to suggest that if I don't want the BG1 party imported, it's only because I want the BG2 party. And I don't.

    But except Yoshimo, these characters were ALL from BG1, so there is a connection with your PC. Skimming through these boards, I read there are so many people that eventually accepted to use the 'canon party' in BG1 because they thought it makes sense to find them again in BG2. As for your decision to use a different party in BG1 to get the 'canon party' in Chateau Irenicus, you should be fine anyway. My proposal was to create a win-win situation to make sure nobody (even those who disagree) would be left in the cold:

    1. A DLC would save Overhaul some time to release BG2:EE without problems (and get some extra revenue in the process), while giving the chance to anybody who wants to *retcon* this discrepancy we are discussing here. It's your decision to buy it or not.

    2. Alternatively, if the old NPCs are already included at release, the game would still let the player make a choice:
    --2a. If you import your latest savegame, you get your BG1 party in Chateau Irenicus (with post-release patches),
    --2b. If you don't want your old party (because it's your way), just import your PC.
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