The Paladin is more than a man, more than a warrior, for his body is a conduit for the divine power that radiates from the highest spheres of the highest heavens of the multiverse. The Paladin is nothing less than the personification of righteous thought, word, and deed honed into a living weapon against evil. The Paladin is the steel that is plunged into the heart of darkness. The Paladin is the resounding thunder that answers the taunts of the wicked, the blinding truth that sears away the lies of darkness. The Paladin is the final hope that cannot be extinguished.
The Paladin knows that in the multiverse there is only good and evil, only light and darkness, only truth and lies, and he has made his choice which to serve. The Paladin abandons the mortal frailties of doubt and fear and compromise, thrown away his selfish pride and embraced a purity of purpose that will seem like utter madness to lesser men. When others are weak, the Paladin is strong. When others are afraid, the Paladin is brave. When others are cruel, the Paladin is kind. When others are unsure, the Paladin is certain. When others are corrupted, the Paladin is chaste.
The Paladin is the champion that wages a war transcending the borders of kingdoms, continents, and planes of reality. When the devils of Baator come with their honeyed words and contracts of slavery, with their lies of moral relativism and chains of false guilt, the Paladin is the only being in the Prime Material plane that can truly stand forth to wipe the look of smug victory from their ugly faces. When the hordes of Tanar'ri threaten to spill forth and destroy, devour and defile all that is held sacred in the Prime Material plane, the Paladin charges atop his steed headlong at their gibbering hordes with sword held high. The Paladin stirs courage and rallies the armies of men to fight evil made manifest, and the wicked fear him, for there is no black arrow they can fire that will pierce his shield of utter devotion. When other men quake and wail and plead with the Gods to deliver them from their moment of doubt and fear, the Paladin shouts his praise to the heavens, because he was born for this moment.
You have not known the face of true evil. You only know the concept of evil as an abstraction, a thing only represented by men or admonished against by priests, or even a thing that does not exist at all...but it does. You have not yet seen its rictus, jagged grin of delight in your suffering and the suffering of all those you love. But a time may come when you do, and you will realize in that moment how utterly, terrifyingly inadequate you are in the face of true evil. You will be naked and mute and paralyzed, staring into the void of a force that only knows hunger. You will be drowning in lightless depths of black ink and be utterly without hope as you are swallowed by the abyss.
The Paladin is the only hand that could reach down and draw you back out again.
I've always thought of the paladin as something akin to the white cloaks from WOT, a group of knights intent on doing good. Working within a strict set of rules, but most become blinded by the very set of rules or faith they adhere to, becoming fearful and eventually hateful of anything that doesn't follow their own creed, or fit into their perfect little world. In short some truly good men and women, that are part of an order mostly made up of overly zealous, ignorant bigots.
I've always imagined the paladins as the active military force of a church, by which it enforces the god's will.
Anyway, since the topic touched Bhaal, Godsbane, etc, and I didn't read the whole thread, I'll just go ahead and shamelessly promote "Prince of Lies" and "The Trial of Cyric The Mad"(the rest in the series comes as a necessary baggage), because they are a darn good books.
Anyone familiar with Ravenloft? Loadstone Paladins are a really wild alternative. Premise is weird, since they literally absorbs the evils they destroy, being forced to empathize with the forces they fight. Even a ghoul has a story, which probably will be unpleasant.
So, I feel like the reasons for a Paladin's existence must be a lore reason. To be exclusive to humans (except Dorn), this must mean a Paladin is specifically a human type of Cleric/Fighter that receives different training.
I get the Paladin subclasses such as the Inquisitor that is more of a soldier that hunts out heretical mages and such, but the base class and Blackguards feel. . .uneeded?
I love Paladins and Blackguards to death but a Holy Cleric/Fighter and an Unholy Cleric/Fighter seems to fit the trope just the same.
I actually have the opposite view, at least from a lore perspective: I feel that a multi- or dual-classed F/C is really just a poor man's paladin or blackguard - someone who didn't have the requisite charisma, race, and/or alignment to become the real thing, so instead they just became some bastard hybrid class that grabs elements from two other classes.
Delving deeper into the lore angle, clerics appear to be studiers of books and teachings from their gods, and learn their abilities in that manner. By contrast, paladins/blackguards are often in direct contact with their gods and receive special abilities (rather than learned spells) directly from them, in order to carry out a particular purpose.
In a nutshell: paladins are leaders, clerics are followers.
Clerics/fighter: Holy warrior who gains power from his God
Paladin: Holy warrior whose power is not directly tied to any god. A paladin can fall from falling the tenants of a deity, especially a lawful neutral one.
So a paladin can change deities or ignore his chosen deity ("No, Helm. I will not put duty over mercy."). Clerics cannot.
I actually think that the exact opposite is true.
For example, Viconia has switched her allegiance from one god to another, but still retains her cleric abilities, because those abilities were learned rather than handed to her.
By contrast, a paladin who fails to satisfy his god will "fall" and lose his innate abilities. Even a blackguard like Dorn says that he needs to keep killing in order to satisfy his patron, and depending on your course of action in BG2,
he can fall if he goes up against his patron.
Also, the class description for the Inquisitor specifically says that they receive their powers directly from their god.
Cleric is associated with the word clerical due to Monks being among the few to usually recieve an education, so jobs they could do were called 'clerical'. The DnD cleric is based on crusader orders thematically, including the prohibition on swords. Like the books state, clerics are expected to be active, taking the fight to the enemy.
Also, clerics are usually the head of the clergy, which includes anyone affiliated with the church, ie Paladins,,Rangers, laypersons (including non-divine class).
For example, Viconia has switched her allegiance from one god to another, but still retains her cleric abilities, because those abilities were learned rather than handed to her.
Actually, they are being handed. There are two sources of magic in the FR: the Weave and the Gods. For their devotion, the clerics receive spells(they need to memorize them, but they don't learn them), and if the connection with the God is served, no spells can be cast at all.
Interresting read, many good opinions voiced in here.
Thematically, I've always pictured this:
A Cleric chooses a Deity and follow the code/mimic the behaviour of that church. As long as they act true to the tenants of the church, they retain their powers. A Paladin already has the behaviour and act in a way which is lawful/good and is then 'chosen' by a Deity/Order. As long as they act true to themselves and follow the moral codes, they retain their powers. (I guess this can be applied to blackguards ("blaggards") as well, though with a demon instead of a deity.)
So, one of them has the "code of conduct" in his heart (the paladin), the other adapts to it to please (the cleric). Just like a wizard studies to become a mage, but for a sorc it comes from within, naturally.
Coincedence probably, but both Sorc and Pala has CHA as prime stat in 3E+, representing inner resolution etc, whilst Clerics and Mages need to use their wits.
I've always thought of the paladin as something akin to the white cloaks from WOT, a group of knights intent on doing good. Working within a strict set of rules, but most become blinded by the very set of rules or faith they adhere to, becoming fearful and eventually hateful of anything that doesn't follow their own creed, or fit into their perfect little world. In short some truly good men and women, that are part of an order mostly made up of overly zealous, ignorant bigots.
If you are thinking of Whitecloaks, you should be thinking about Galad mostly. He's pretty close.
Clerics are part of a religious order and have a deeply spiritual relationship with their gods. Knights are secular and a Paladin is a knight who was blessed by a god as a reward or made a deal with a patron that grants him powers. One way to put it is that a Paladin (or Blackguard) is a sort of elite mercenary fighting directly under the orders of a god. They have to really embody the values of that god to be chosen, but they don't get all the religious duties and restricions imposed on the actual clergy.
Clerics are representatives of their gods or churches, which can be any alignment. They are like the clergy or priesthood of a particular church, if that church is organized.
Paladins serve the ideals of goodness and lawfulness. They are not always tied to a particular faith. They are sworn to put the needs of others above their own desires always, which cannot be said of clerics in general.
Blackguards, or anti-paladins, serve the ideal of evil and chaos, or their own ends. They are rarely, if ever, tied to a particular faith, rather they are sworn to further their own selfish cause and the suffering of others.
The Paladin is more than a man, more than a warrior, for his body is a conduit for the divine power that radiates from the highest spheres of the highest heavens of the multiverse. The Paladin is nothing less than the personification of righteous thought, word, and deed honed into a living weapon against evil. The Paladin is the steel that is plunged into the heart of darkness. The Paladin is the resounding thunder that answers the taunts of the wicked, the blinding truth that sears away the lies of darkness. The Paladin is the final hope that cannot be extinguished.
The Paladin knows that in the multiverse there is only good and evil, only light and darkness, only truth and lies, and he has made his choice which to serve. The Paladin abandons the mortal frailties of doubt and fear and compromise, thrown away his selfish pride and embraced a purity of purpose that will seem like utter madness to lesser men. When others are weak, the Paladin is strong. When others are afraid, the Paladin is brave. When others are cruel, the Paladin is kind. When others are unsure, the Paladin is certain. When others are corrupted, the Paladin is chaste.
The Paladin is the champion that wages a war transcending the borders of kingdoms, continents, and planes of reality. When the devils of Baator come with their honeyed words and contracts of slavery, with their lies of moral relativism and chains of false guilt, the Paladin is the only being in the Prime Material plane that can truly stand forth to wipe the look of smug victory from their ugly faces. When the hordes of Tanar'ri threaten to spill forth and destroy, devour and defile all that is held sacred in the Prime Material plane, the Paladin charges atop his steed headlong at their gibbering hordes with sword held high. The Paladin stirs courage and rallies the armies of men to fight evil made manifest, and the wicked fear him, for there is no black arrow they can fire that will pierce his shield of utter devotion. When other men quake and wail and plead with the Gods to deliver them from their moment of doubt and fear, the Paladin shouts his praise to the heavens, because he was born for this moment.
You have not known the face of true evil. You only know the concept of evil as an abstraction, a thing only represented by men or admonished against by priests, or even a thing that does not exist at all...but it does. You have not yet seen its rictus, jagged grin of delight in your suffering and the suffering of all those you love. But a time may come when you do, and you will realize in that moment how utterly, terrifyingly inadequate you are in the face of true evil. You will be naked and mute and paralyzed, staring into the void of a force that only knows hunger. You will be drowning in lightless depths of black ink and be utterly without hope as you are swallowed by the abyss.
The Paladin is the only hand that could reach down and draw you back out again.
Paladins don't have to be humourless and self-righteous. Buffy is a paladin.
Nope nope nope nope nope, Buffy is most definitely not a paladin. Just because the Slayer hunts undead doesn't make her a paladin. She follows no particular god nor creed. She is part of no dogmatic church order. Yes she has a Watcher, but she only takes advice from Giles because he is her friend, she tells all the other Watchers to go screw themselves.
Other Slayer may fall into these categories, being raised from birth to follow orders and to be Slayers, but not Buffy.
Also not Faith.
Side note, what kind of paladin shags numerous undead and stays a paladin. Ok Angel had a soul and no personalty, but Spike was souless, he had all the personalty, but he was still a souless undead creature and my favorite character.
Hahaha nice, I can't remember this scene and thus have no idea of it's context, but I am definitely imaging she's looking in the mirror scolding herself for banging Spike again.
The Paladin is more than a man, more than a warrior, for his body is a conduit for the divine power that radiates from the highest spheres of the highest heavens of the multiverse. The Paladin is nothing less than the personification of righteous thought, word, and deed honed into a living weapon against evil. The Paladin is the steel that is plunged into the heart of darkness. The Paladin is the resounding thunder that answers the taunts of the wicked, the blinding truth that sears away the lies of darkness. The Paladin is the final hope that cannot be extinguished.
The Paladin knows that in the multiverse there is only good and evil, only light and darkness, only truth and lies, and he has made his choice which to serve. The Paladin abandons the mortal frailties of doubt and fear and compromise, thrown away his selfish pride and embraced a purity of purpose that will seem like utter madness to lesser men. When others are weak, the Paladin is strong. When others are afraid, the Paladin is brave. When others are cruel, the Paladin is kind. When others are unsure, the Paladin is certain. When others are corrupted, the Paladin is chaste.
The Paladin is the champion that wages a war transcending the borders of kingdoms, continents, and planes of reality. When the devils of Baator come with their honeyed words and contracts of slavery, with their lies of moral relativism and chains of false guilt, the Paladin is the only being in the Prime Material plane that can truly stand forth to wipe the look of smug victory from their ugly faces. When the hordes of Tanar'ri threaten to spill forth and destroy, devour and defile all that is held sacred in the Prime Material plane, the Paladin charges atop his steed headlong at their gibbering hordes with sword held high. The Paladin stirs courage and rallies the armies of men to fight evil made manifest, and the wicked fear him, for there is no black arrow they can fire that will pierce his shield of utter devotion. When other men quake and wail and plead with the Gods to deliver them from their moment of doubt and fear, the Paladin shouts his praise to the heavens, because he was born for this moment.
You have not known the face of true evil. You only know the concept of evil as an abstraction, a thing only represented by men or admonished against by priests, or even a thing that does not exist at all...but it does. You have not yet seen its rictus, jagged grin of delight in your suffering and the suffering of all those you love. But a time may come when you do, and you will realize in that moment how utterly, terrifyingly inadequate you are in the face of true evil. You will be naked and mute and paralyzed, staring into the void of a force that only knows hunger. You will be drowning in lightless depths of black ink and be utterly without hope as you are swallowed by the abyss.
The Paladin is the only hand that could reach down and draw you back out again.
This... This is why I always play a Paladin. The 'goody two shoes' thing isn't what it's about. It's the chance to do more good, to help more people, to *be* more than I could be IRL, a world of grey areas. My 2pence worth.
Also, I agree with others. @Blackhawk, if you're not a writer already you should be! I would read you voraciously and repeatedly ^_^
Anyone ever actually try a Grey Guard? Sounded a bit absurd, a 'Paladin with an earned loose code of conduct' kinda sums up the PrC. 'Dirty Harry' tropes abound, but it sounded like it missed the point.
Comments
Working within a strict set of rules, but most become blinded by the very set of rules or faith they adhere to, becoming fearful and eventually hateful of anything that doesn't follow their own creed, or fit into their perfect little world.
In short some truly good men and women, that are part of an order mostly made up of overly zealous, ignorant bigots.
Anyway, since the topic touched Bhaal, Godsbane, etc, and I didn't read the whole thread, I'll just go ahead and shamelessly promote "Prince of Lies" and "The Trial of Cyric The Mad"(the rest in the series comes as a necessary baggage), because they are a darn good books.
Delving deeper into the lore angle, clerics appear to be studiers of books and teachings from their gods, and learn their abilities in that manner. By contrast, paladins/blackguards are often in direct contact with their gods and receive special abilities (rather than learned spells) directly from them, in order to carry out a particular purpose.
In a nutshell: paladins are leaders, clerics are followers.
For example, Viconia has switched her allegiance from one god to another, but still retains her cleric abilities, because those abilities were learned rather than handed to her.
By contrast, a paladin who fails to satisfy his god will "fall" and lose his innate abilities. Even a blackguard like Dorn says that he needs to keep killing in order to satisfy his patron, and depending on your course of action in BG2,
Also, the class description for the Inquisitor specifically says that they receive their powers directly from their god.
Also, clerics are usually the head of the clergy, which includes anyone affiliated with the church, ie Paladins,,Rangers, laypersons (including non-divine class).
You did not dissapoint.
Thematically, I've always pictured this:
A Cleric chooses a Deity and follow the code/mimic the behaviour of that church. As long as they act true to the tenants of the church, they retain their powers.
A Paladin already has the behaviour and act in a way which is lawful/good and is then 'chosen' by a Deity/Order. As long as they act true to themselves and follow the moral codes, they retain their powers.
(I guess this can be applied to blackguards ("blaggards") as well, though with a demon instead of a deity.)
So, one of them has the "code of conduct" in his heart (the paladin), the other adapts to it to please (the cleric). Just like a wizard studies to become a mage, but for a sorc it comes from within, naturally.
Coincedence probably, but both Sorc and Pala has CHA as prime stat in 3E+, representing inner resolution etc, whilst Clerics and Mages need to use their wits.
Paladins serve the ideals of goodness and lawfulness. They are not always tied to a particular faith. They are sworn to put the needs of others above their own desires always, which cannot be said of clerics in general.
Blackguards, or anti-paladins, serve the ideal of evil and chaos, or their own ends. They are rarely, if ever, tied to a particular faith, rather they are sworn to further their own selfish cause and the suffering of others.
Buffy is most definitely not a paladin. Just because the Slayer hunts undead doesn't make her a paladin. She follows no particular god nor creed. She is part of no dogmatic church order. Yes she has a Watcher, but she only takes advice from Giles because he is her friend, she tells all the other Watchers to go screw themselves.
Other Slayer may fall into these categories, being raised from birth to follow orders and to be Slayers, but not Buffy.
Also not Faith.
Side note, what kind of paladin shags numerous undead and stays a paladin. Ok Angel had a soul and no personalty, but Spike was souless, he had all the personalty, but he was still a souless undead creature and my favorite character.
Go team Spike!!!!
Also, I agree with others. @Blackhawk, if you're not a writer already you should be! I would read you voraciously and repeatedly ^_^