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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"

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  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    Coming back here after the weekend and seeing only one (!) update to this thread after previous lively weekends (and working days) of this thread... All I can say is that Hachiman's BG1 story will be continued this week!
    BlackravenMusignykcwise
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    Not sure when I'll resume with Nadeem heading to Spellhold; just been very busy lately.

    Could I also request, if it's not out of order, that people stop posting bitmap images? I spend most of my time on these forums on my phone and opening a single page destroys my data allowance for a month because there's so many images that are each over 1MB in size. How about converting to jpeg before posting?
    BlackravenkcwiseJuliusBorisov
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I thought this forum didn't support jpeg images, or that they didn't upload properly. I've been using bitmaps because I thought it was the only way. If jpegs work just as well, I'll switch to jpegs.
    BlackravenkcwiseJuliusBorisovlolien
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    @semiticgod, I use Bulk Image Converter to convert all my bmps (the default screenshot format) to jpegs.
    kcwiseJuliusBorisov
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    FYI since you seem to be misunderstanding something. SI Abjuration does not block Abjuration debuffing spells like Breach, Spell Thrust etc unless that's a Spell Revisions change. It seems your problem was Spell Trap, not SI Abjuration. Very few spells remove Spell Trap and you had to remove Spell Shield first. So the order should have been Spell Thrust (or Secret Word or Breach, anything that cancels out the Spell Shield) followed by Ruby Ray. But starting with Ruby Ray only removes the Spell Shield which means you don't have a spell powerful enough to remove Spell Trap.
    kcwiseBlackravenlolien
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Jaheiras_Witness: I believe it's an SCS2 change, but I could be wrong. SI: Abjuration I know doesn't block Breach in vanilla, nor does it do so in Spell Revisions, since SR removes Spell Immunity outright.

    Minor nitpick: I'm almost positive Irenicus never cast Spell Trap. SCS2 enemies seldom ever use it, preferring instead to dedicate 9th-level mage slots to Absolute Immunity or Time Stop. I do know Irenicus used Spell Turning, however.

    I believe Spell Shield absorbed the Ruby Ray of Reversal, preventing Secret Word from getting past SI: Abjuration, in which case the only way to break down Irenicus' defenses would have been to use two Ruby Rays, followed by a Secret Word. Maybe somebody could confirm how SI: Abjuration works in SCS2.
    kcwise
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    I don't believe SCS changes that at all, in my experience SI Abjuration is only used to block Remove Magic but not any other abjuration debuffing spells.
    kcwise
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    Most of that makes sense.

    Breach not bypassing SI Abjuration is consistent with SCS revised Breach, that makes sense.

    Spell Thrust only affects spells of level 5 or below, so that should never work against GoI, that also makes sense.

    However Secret Word *should* remove GoI, there's something amiss if it doesn't. It says in its spell description that it should and it's such a niche spell anyway (only real use is vs GoI, Spell Deflection and Spell Turning) that it becomes worthless if it doesn't remove GoI.
    JuliusBorisovkcwiselolien
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    The point is it's worthless because Spell Thrust overlaps so heavily. Secret Word removes one spell protection of up to level 8. Spell Thrust removes ALL of 5th level or lower. Both negate/are negated by Spell Shield.

    That means there are now only 2 spells that Secret Word removes which Spell Thrust does not: Spell Deflection and Spell Turning. And that's assuming the opponent is not a rakshasa or lich. That's why it's so weak, because Spell Thrust covers nearly all its bases.

    It seems very inconsistent that GoI is not dispelled by Secret Word. Spell Thrust (level 3) removes MGoI which is supposed to protect from spells up to level 3. So by the same logic why shouldn't Secret Word (level 4) remove GoI which is supposed to protect from spells up to level 4?

    Bad programming :wink:
    kcwise
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I can think of a few reasons why the inconsistency makes sense, though the inconsistency might not have been intentional.

    (1) If Secret Word could take down GOI, then Pierce Magic would be of very little use, since enemies with spell protections seldom have MR, and vice versa. Comparing Secret Word with Pierce Magic, the latter's only advantage is a minor decrease in the target's MR, which doesn't justify, in my opinion, occupying two whole spell levels higher than Secret Word.
    -The inconsistency makes Pierce Magic more useful.

    (2) GOI would be much less useful relative to MGOI if it didn't block Secret Word. The number of spells that are blocked by GOI but not MGOI aren't very many: Emotion, Confusion, Polymorph Other, Ice Storm, and Teleport Field. And people seldom use those spells to break through MGOI anyway: mages already have excellent saves vs. spell, rendering the first three very weak, and Teleport is more often beneficial for enemy mages. This means GOI has very little advantage over MGOI, unless it blocks Secret Word.
    -The inconsistency makes GOI more useful.

    (3) Secret Word is only 1 spell level higher than Spell Thrust, but Globe of Invulnerability is 2 spell levels higher than Minor Globe of Invulnerability.
    -The inconsistency matches the spell level difference.
    Serg_BlackStriderBlackravenkcwiselolien
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    1) Pierce Magic has a niche use vs liches (immune to levels 1-5). But agree with you that it's a weak spell.

    2) Neither Ice Storm or Teleport Field offer saves. Mages save vs spell are not that great, especially vs spells with a penalty like Confusion (not good enough to risk anyway, especially as they can't drink Invulnerability). Actually the biggest use of GoI is to protect against Greater Malison.

    3) Makes sense but surely not intentional. Definitely think Secret Word needs improving if it can't touch GoI.
    kcwiselolien
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    I'm enjoying your mixing of first person and third person narrative styles, @Blackraven . You definitely manage "to connect a few pieces" together when you write. Excellent!
    kcwiseMusignyBlackravenlolien
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