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An analysis on Necromancy (Focus on IWD:EE but may apply to other games).

VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
So, today I've decided I'm going to try and act like I know what I'm talking about and do an analysis on Necromancy spells within the infinity engine games. I'll go through each class that has a necromantic flavor and then compare wizard and cleric spells and abilities. Also, this primarily focuses on IWD:EE but information can be relevant to BG:EE and BG2:EE especially if you import IWD:EE's spells to them.

Classes:

Classes suitable to perform necromancy in my opinion are Wizards and Clerics as the top contenders followed by Blackguards, Bards, and Sorcerers. Monks can also have a necromantic flavor with the Dark Moon Monk and modded kits.

Human Wizards have access to the Necromancer specialist. They gain saves vs necro spells, one extra spell a day, and an increase in chance to scribe necromancy spells by 15%. They lose access to Illusion and Enchantment spell schools and have a -15% chance to scribe spells from non-necromancy spell schools. The Wizard seems to focus more on the "Black Magicks" side of things. Will go into more detail later. They can learn animate dead as a 5th level spell at level 9.

The Cleric is a divine spellcaster and is more suited for the "Master of Life and Death" type of necromancer. If you're good or neutral aligned you turn undead which first fears them but at later levels can outright destroy them. If you're evil you may rebuke undead. This will still fear them but instead of destroying them you dominate them under your control. Unlike the wizard, you lose out on many spells depending on your alignment. Good Clerics gain many life spells such as the powerful Resurrection while evil Clerics gain necrotic spells like Destruction and Wither. Neutral Clerics gain some of both. Will go into more detail later. Clerics learn animate dead the earliest as a 3rd level spell at level 5.

Blackguards make fine unholy warriors but certainly lack in the spells department. You won't be casting animate dead until level 13. Despite this, the Aura of Despair, Poison Weapon, and undead immunities make the Blackguard a great character if you want that black magic feel while being a primary melee character. Like the Cleric, they also gain the ability to rebuke weaker undead.

Bards learn the wizard necromancy spells but at a slower rate as they only start beginning learning the arcane from level 2 onwards and can only learn up to 8th level spells. They only gain one 8th level spell at level 29(!) which makes them not-so-great for a legit primary necromancer. There are mods you can use such as Song and Silence which adds a Dirgesinger Bard which has great necromantic flavor which a debuffing bard song and a SLA to animate dead at level 10. Unfortunately the Song and Silence kits only seem to currently be working in BG:EE and BG2:EE. IWD:EE the kits do not work to my knowledge. So, as a Bard, like the Blackguard, you will gain the ability to learn animate dead at 13. Keep in mind Bards level very quickly with their rogue level-progression.

Next are Sorcerers. It may be argued they can be equally good necromancers (well, they can actually); however, they do not have a great necromantic flavor as the Wizard has the Necromancer specialization and the Cleric has dominion over the dead as a modal ability. If you already have a scroll-learning character in IWD:EE it may be nice to have a sorcerer so they can innately learn all the necromancy spells. It may also be useful if you don't know where to find certain necromancy spell scrolls within the game. They learn animate dead as a 5th level spell at level 10.


Forgot about Monks on my initial writing of this. So Dark Moon Monks combine dark magicks and martial arts. They can use frozen fist which is similar to chill touch. As they level they may also cast Blindness, Blur, Vampiric Touch, and Mirror image.

Multi-Classing and Dual-Classing:

If you're seeking to multi-class I would say the best way to go about being a "True Necromancer" is to be a Half-Elf Cleric/Mage. This way, you gain all the arcane and divine spells along with turn/rebuke undead. If you want to focus on life spells, go good. If you want destructive spells, go evil. Then, if you want to generalize, go neutral.

Honestly, any Class/Mage or Class/Cleric can perform well as a Necromancer due to having the ability to obtain the required spells. One could try emulating an unholy warrior for non-humans by using an Elven Fighter/Mage and only choosing dark-themed spells or play a Gnomish Thief/Cleric and serve as an Unholy Assassin using the Undead and Dark spells to enhance your killing potential.

For dual classing it might be fun to do a Necromancer dualed into a cleric. Why? Well Necromancer wizards make their enemies recieve a -2 to Necromancy spell saves. Meaning that a Necromancer/Cleric can their necromancy spells and enemies receive a -2 to saves no matter if arcane or divine.

The spells you will be using as a Necromancer:

Here is a list of all the necromancy spells used by both divine and arcane means. The arcane list was provided by @Merina in her thread, here: http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/41493/wizard-spell-lists-icewind-dale-enhanced-edition#latest

In the divine list I note any alignment restrictions as well as any comparisons to the arcane list.

Necromancer:

1 Chill Touch (Necromancy)
1 Larloch's Minor Drain (Necromancy)
2 Ghoul Touch (Necromancy)
2 Horror (Necromancy)
3 Hold Undead (Necromancy)
3 Skull Trap (Necromancy)
3 Vampiric Touch (Necromancy)
4 Beltyn's Burning Blood (Necromancy)
4 Contagion (Necromancy)
4 Spirit Armor (Necromancy)
5 Animate Dead (Necromancy)
5 Summon Shadow (Conjuration/Summoning, Necromancy)
6 Darts of Bone (Necromancy)
6 Death Spell (Necromancy)
6 Lich Touch (Necromancy)
6 Soul Eater (Necromancy)
6 Trollish Fortitude (Necromancy)
7 Control Undead (Necromancy)
7 Finger of Death (Necromancy)
8 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting (Necromancy)
9 Energy Drain (Necromancy)
9 Wail Of The Banshee (Necromancy)


Cleric:

1 Cause Light Wounds (Neutral or Evil only)
1 Cure Light Wounds
2 Aid
2 Cause Moderate Wounds (Neutral or Evil only)
2 Cure Moderate Wounds
2 Slow Poison
3 Animate Dead (Both Wizard and Cleric get this. Cleric receives at level 5, Wizard at 9)
3 Cause Disease (Similar in function to Contagion, Disease does strength damage while Contagion does Str, Dex, and cha)
3 Circle of Bones (Neutral or Evil only)
3 Favor of Ilmater (Good or Neutral only)
3 Holy Smite (Good or Neutral only)
3 Unholy Blight (Evil or Neutral only)
4 Cause Serious Wounds (Evil or Neutral only)
4 Cure Serious Wounds
4 Death Ward
4 Lesser Restoration
4 Neutralize Poison
4 Poison (Evil only)
4 Unfailing Endurance
5 Cause Critical Wounds (Evil only)
5 Cure Critical Wounds (Good or Neutral only)
5 Mass Cause Light Wounds (Evil only)
5 Mass Cure Light Wounds (Good or neutral only)
5 Raise Dead (Good or neutral only)
5 Slay Living (Neutral or Evil only)
5 Undead Ward
6 Dolorous Decay (Druid Only?)
6 Harm (Evil only)
6 Heal (Good or Neutral only)
7 Destruction (Evil only, stronger version of Finger of Death but touch range)
7 Finger of Death (Shared on both Wizard and Cleric list)
7 Greater Restoration (Good or Neutral Only)
7 Regeneration (Good or Neutral only, similar to Trollish Fortitude)
7 Resurrection (Good only)
7 Wither (Evil only)

Bard:

1 Chill Touch (Necromancy)
1 Larloch's Minor Drain (Necromancy)
2 Ghoul Touch (Necromancy)
2 Horror (Necromancy)
3 Hold Undead (Necromancy)
3 Skull Trap (Necromancy)
3 Vampiric Touch (Necromancy)
4 Beltyn's Burning Blood (Necromancy)
4 Contagion (Necromancy)
4 Spirit Armor (Necromancy)
5 Animate Dead (Necromancy)
5 Summon Shadow (Conjuration/Summoning, Necromancy)
6 Darts of Bone (Necromancy)
6 Death Spell (Necromancy)
6 Lich Touch (Necromancy)
6 Soul Eater (Necromancy)
6 Trollish Fortitude (Necromancy)
--Baldur's Gate Spell Cap For Bards --
7 Control Undead (Necromancy)
7 Finger of Death (Necromancy)
8 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting (Necromancy)

Blackguard:

1 Cause Light Wounds (Neutral or Evil only)
1 Cure Light Wounds
2 Aid
2 Cause Moderate Wounds (Neutral or Evil only)
2 Cure Moderate Wounds
2 Slow Poison
3 Animate Dead
3 Cause Disease
3 Circle of Bones (Neutral or Evil only)
3 Unholy Blight (Evil or Neutral only)
4 Cause Serious Wounds (Evil or Neutral only)
4 Cure Serious Wounds
4 Death Ward
4 Lesser Restoration
4 Neutralize Poison
4 Poison (Evil only)
4 Unfailing Endurance

RP Gods for the aspiring Necromancer: Jergal*, Kelemvor*, Mrykul, Velsharoon, Kiaransalee, Bhaal, Cyric, and possibly Shar (She has had the Undeath and Death domains before, though it would seem she attained these after the events of IWD:EE and BG/BG2:EE).

*These two don't like Liches or anyone that has willingly become Undead. Kelemvor hates the Undead completely but Jergal would allows his followers to use undead to fight the undead.

Mods of Note:
http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/31274/mod-beta-tome-and-blood-more-options-for-wizards-and-sorcerers/p1?_ga=1.95594267.602184538.1431381712

Tome and Blood adds Elves to be able to become Necromancers along with the Revenant Bloodline for scorcerers and two sub-kits for necromancers. The Pale Master is much like it's 3.5 counterpart and gives you undead immunities as you level as well as a d6 hitdice. The Pale Master is Neutral and Evil only. For Good and Neutral you can be the White Necromancer of which I can assume is based on Pathfinder's class by the same name. It gives you raise dead as well as a number of healing spells to your spell list.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/sns/

Song and Silence adds the Dirgesinger bard so if you want to use that in BG:EE or BG2:EE you're perfectly available to. Also, if you use this version's shadowdancer they have summon shadow which is also an undead type creature.

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=706

Divine Remix adds the Strifeleader of Cyric Cleric kit. If you want that death god flavor for your Cleric Cyric is a pretty good way to go.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/iwdification/

IWDification adds many of the spells from IWD to BG:EE and such.

http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/33657/scales-of-balance-post-hac-kits-and-tweaks/p1

Scales of Balance has been discontinued and its spellcasting stuff is going to be added to Tome and Blood. Keep an eye out for the set of mods that will contain: Tome and Blood, Might and Guile, and Faiths and Powers.

http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/18620/mod-beta-monastic-orders-of-faerun/p1

http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1099-a-frosty-journey-the-iwdee-kitpack/

Both of these mods also contain a monk of the Order of the Long Death which make other good death-themed martial artists.
@elminster thanks for the link n_n

Ending notes and biases:

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I personally cannot decide which type of char I like more between pure Cleric, pure Wizard, or Cleric/Mage. Wizard definitely has the better offensive spell collection as a lot of the Cleric's spells are healing or protection spells. However, Clerics gain animate dead at a much earlier level, 5 compared to 9. This with the ability to rebuke undead as en evil cleric makes it a tough choice to make. On the wizard side you gain badass spells like Soul Eater that kills enemies and turns them into skellybros which is super special awesome! Also, EE keeper is fun. Sometimes with the TnB mod I'll make a Cleric/Pale Master and such.

If I got any information wrong or have any input I'd super be appreciative of any comments and such n_n

Edit: So, thanks to @abacus I have learned that Bards, while getting animate dead later, actually get the best version of the spell before both mages and clerics due to their exp progression. They will obtain at it 1,100,000 exp while Clerics will gain it at 1,575,000 and Mages at 1,875,000. Thanks again for the information!

Edit the Second: Added spell lists for the Blackguard and Bard. I'm unsure about the Blackguard one since I haven't used a Blackguard in IWD:EE but this is what I assume the spells available would be.
Post edited by Vallmyr on

Comments

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    It's a slight cheat but I like using EE Keeper to apply the Necromancer kit to cleric/mages making them cleric/necromancers instead.
  • Brer_RabbitBrer_Rabbit Member Posts: 159
    Don't suppose anyone's mentioned if Droids will be moddable soon? I'm pretty jelly over here staring at the cool stuff you PC people get. (damn PC players! *fist shake*)
  • Brer_RabbitBrer_Rabbit Member Posts: 159
    edited May 2015
    No, but related to the posts following it, not to mention that some of the Necromancers the OP opined about (and made a rather large list on) were mod-only. That's why I asked, since I was thinking about Necromancers myself.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited May 2015
    Anywho,

    The Order of the Long Death is a monk order that is fascinated with studying death and perfecting it (the source material is rather inconsistent about them). You can play one using both the Monastic Orders of Faerûn mod

    http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/18620/mod-beta-monastic-orders-of-faerun/p1

    and my Frosty Journey mod (not supported for anything other than IWDEE)

    http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1099-a-frosty-journey-the-iwdee-kitpack/

    So a few more death related mods.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    elminster said:

    Anywho,

    The Order of the Long Death is a monk order that is fascinated with studying death and perfecting it (the source material is rather inconsistent about them). You can play one using both the Monastic Orders of Faerûn mod

    http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/18620/mod-beta-monastic-orders-of-faerun/p1

    and my Frosty Journey mod (not supported for anything other than IWDEE)

    http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1099-a-frosty-journey-the-iwdee-kitpack/

    So a few more death related mods.

    Ohhh yeahhh forgot about monks! BRB! Editing!
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Also, I made this because back when I first got into the infinity engine games I couldn't decide what class to play for my necromantic needs. I tried searching on forums of different sites but nothing helped break down all the options and such. Fast forward a few years and now that I have said knowledge I've created this! Hopefully any new players seeking to play a necro might find this useful. n_n
  • T2avT2av Member Posts: 202

    Don't suppose anyone's mentioned if Droids will be moddable soon? I'm pretty jelly over here staring at the cool stuff you PC people get. (damn PC players! *fist shake*)

    Some mods work , some don't. Use mods that use 2da, anything non weidu, seem to work.. game killer works for modifying stats, etc.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Long Death monks are the antithesis of Necromancers.

    They're like the Dustmen of Sigil but even more extreme since they don't care if you're ready for the true death or not like the Dustmen do, and hate everyone that tries to oppose or escape the true death via necromancy of ANY KIND even healing spells, Velsharoon despises them before they hunt down and destroy undeath where ever it's found, and Kelemvor dislikes them (due to the very real concern that their belief could literally create a God of Death from nothing) but tolerates them since they hate the undead even more then he does.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    It might be worth taking a look at the complete book of necromancers, it's a quite inferestig ad&d book, and there might be a pdf available on the internet.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    DJKajuru said:

    It might be worth taking a look at the complete book of necromancers, it's a quite inferestig ad&d book, and there might be a pdf available on the internet.

    It's actually the only AD&D book that I own. XD
    Hmmmmmm
    Maybe I'll use it as a basis to write a dual class guide since it talks a lot about dual classing and the roleplay associated with it.
  • T2avT2av Member Posts: 202
    edited October 2015
    decado said:

    It's a slight cheat but I like using EE Keeper to apply the Necromancer kit to cleric/mages making them cleric/necromancers instead.

    I don't consider it a cheat. Your actually worse off than a regular cleric/Mage because you barred from illusion/enchantment(Iwd). Cheats imo give yourself a significant advantage. Like a assassin/cleric with UAI to begin with so he can backstab with swords from the get-go.
    Post edited by T2av on
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    DJKajuru said:

    It might be worth taking a look at the complete book of necromancers, it's a quite inferestig ad&d book, and there might be a pdf available on the internet.

    I'm going to assume that was a deliberate portmanteau of interesting and infested? :V
  • T2avT2av Member Posts: 202
    Do nuetral clerics get both good n Evil?
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Like, spell-wise?
    It depends. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. I've marked each one that is alignment specific with (Good, neutral, or evil only) tags.
    So like

    5 Cause Critical Wounds (Evil only)

    Only an Evil Cleric can cast it but

    4 Cause Serious Wounds (Evil or Neutral only)

    this means Neutral characters can cast it.
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    Horrid Wilting is particularly awesome for necromancers because it doesn't affect their own undead minions (though that doesn't matter in Baldur's Gate 2 where the spell doesn't affect allies at all).
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Made an alteration to dual class stuff. I want to write a section about Shamans but I haven't used one enough yet. Since It'll be forever before I play SoD maybe I'll just use one for a Black Pits run.
  • catsarekacampcatsarekacamp Member Posts: 52
    Whoaw whoaw wait. Bards can cast 8th level spells? When did I miss this? Or did I read OP wrong?
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    In Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition they apparently can, I haven't tested it myself.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited June 2016

    Whoaw whoaw wait. Bards can cast 8th level spells? When did I miss this? Or did I read OP wrong?

    In pnp and IWD, bards can cast up to 8th level.
    In bg2, spell progression tables are nerfed for mages and bards. Bards are restricted to 6th level spells and mages have less spell slots at high levels than pnp rules and iwd rules allow. It counters the fact that mages have very powerful spells and mages/bards having world-shaking hlas easily in bg2, a stark contrast to pnp. A pnp bard can not set 20d6 spike traps, or a pnp mage can not launch party friendly 20d10 dragon breaths you know.
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