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powergaming party (BG2 TOB,NPC and multiplayer)

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Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Could you elaborate a bit? Why a pure-class wizard over some of the other combinations? Why a transmuter, and not a wild mage? Why not a sorcerer?

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013
    this is BG2 related topic not bg1

    since someone posted npc party bg1-not bg ee
    pc fighter/cleric dwarf tanking melee dmg buffs screwing AI of monsters with boots of speed
    edwin op mage
    coran bow op
    kivan bow op
    shar-teel bow 3rd best archer
    montaron bow 4th best archer

    they shoot so fast so many arrows that everything die almost without pc engaging in melee

    there could be some changes

    get pc fighter with bows
    jaheira with throwing daggers for healing
    kagain tank
    rest the same

  • The_Shairs_HandbookThe_Shairs_Handbook Member Posts: 219
    edited April 2013

    Could you elaborate a bit? Why a pure-class wizard over some of the other combinations? Why a transmuter, and not a wild mage? Why not a sorcerer?

    Opposed School(s) :
    Abjurer=Alteration
    Conjurer=Divination
    Diviner=Conjuration
    Enchanter=Invocation
    Illusionist=Necromancy
    Invoker=Enchantment/
    Necromancer=Illusion
    Transmuter=Abjuration
    Wild Mage =Reliability

    As Transmuter you get Abjuration as oppsed school... and thats not even hurt... sure you cant cast protect vs evil but who cares.... only spell that would hurt to not have is protection vs petrification... but there is always something to use to come around it...
    other specialist you get more powerful weaknes...
    so basically you get extra spell slot and little downside as Transmuter specialist..

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    But why a pure mage? Isn't a sorcerer better, for BG1? Also, isn't Wild Mage the best "specialist"?

  • The_Shairs_HandbookThe_Shairs_Handbook Member Posts: 219
    edited April 2013

    But why a pure mage? Isn't a sorcerer better, for BG1? Also, isn't Wild Mage the best "specialist"?

    randomness of wild mage is dangerous and time consuming (more reloads) ...
    and Sorcerer can only have a set of few magic...
    pure mage can have all arcane spells in the game thats make them more versatile and a better choise as powerplay (and specialist gets 1 more spell slot to cast per day thus the Transmuter) .

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    Plus in bg ee sorcerer doesn't access lvl 5 spells

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Why a pure arcane caster at all, then? I'm no expert on BG1 by any means, but I was always under the impression that pure arcane casters were relatively weak there.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    the most powergaming team in bg1 would be multiplayer created team

    not underpowered low stats npc

  • The_Shairs_HandbookThe_Shairs_Handbook Member Posts: 219
    edited April 2013

    Why a pure arcane caster at all, then? I'm no expert on BG1 by any means, but I was always under the impression that pure arcane casters were relatively weak there.

    have you ever cast the spell sleep (it's very good low lvl spells.... at higher lvl you have other good spells...

    i would say nope pure arcane casters aren't weak... plus they gets their lvl 5 arcane spells.... while other nonepure classes don't

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013

    Why a pure arcane caster at all, then? I'm no expert on BG1 by any means, but I was always under the impression that pure arcane casters were relatively weak there.

    have you ever cast the spell sleep (it's very good low lvl spells.... at higher lvl you have other good spells...

    i would say nope pure arcane casters aren't weak... plus they gets their lvl 5 arcane spells.... while other nonepure classes don't
    fighter/ilusionist is probably best character in bg1

    probably best in bg1> pure mage specialist

    mages do not get anything good in level 5 in bg1, maybe EE changed something dunno

  • ShadowTigerShadowTiger Member Posts: 60
    edited April 2013
    I recently finished a playthrough with this lineup.

    Kensai
    Berserker (8) -> Cleric
    Archer
    Swashbuckler
    Skald
    Necromancer

    It wasn't trying to be super optimized, but overall it was pretty strong. The Berserker was very useful against mages with imprisonment, the kensai, archer, and swashbuckler were very strong with their level bonuses. The Archer was fairly useless in some situations because lots of enemies are immune to missiles (especially mages with stoneskin apparently). Gensen helps alot here.

    The skald was used as a support mage early on and then went full time song once it got HLA's. The -10 AC was pretty much essential for staying alive, and the bonuses to everyone else was nice. My swashbuckler ended up with -24 AC thanks to the song bonus of -4.

    Pure kensai is super strong... I almost never missed, celestial fury stun locked enemies frequently, even adamantine golems. I was probably doing 200 dpr with this character alone.

    The cleric was pretty much only used for removing invisibility and healing people. A few buffs here and there were useful, but wasting time casting offensive spells didn't seem to pay off. Casting the Heal spell mid battle was super useful though.

    The necromancer and skald pretty much used anti-mage spells the entire game, with a few magic missiles, webs, and skull traps here and there. Finger of death and Horrid Wilting were fun to use but most enemies died before the spells could go off (or had magic resistance + high saving throws).

    Post edited by ShadowTiger on
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013
    was kensai stronger than cleric? highest damage? crom offhand?
    cleric with duhm should score pretty high str and so dmg
    actually you have swashbuckler and archer too so i ques your team is super damage efficient

  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 799
    edited April 2013
    Assassin
    Fighter/Cleric
    Mage

    Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013
    GemHound said:

    Assassin
    Fighter/Cleric
    Mage

    Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.

    why not kensai/mage?

    Post edited by zur312 on
  • ShadowTigerShadowTiger Member Posts: 60
    edited April 2013
    Well if you look at the stats of % of kills, its about 42% Kensai, 20% Fighter/Cleric, 19% Archer, 9% Swashbuckler, 2% Skald, 4% Necromancer.

    They all have 24 or 25 strength at this point, they started with 19, 18/94, and 18 respectively. All 6 are imported from BG 1 and I gave most of the tomes to the Kensai, and the Wis/Int to cleric/mage.

    Kensai -16 AC,-32/-29 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +12 damage (~48 damage per hit)
    Cleric: -17 AC, -16 Thac0, 7/2 Attacks per round, +14 damage (~38+ damage per hit)
    Swashbuckler: -24 AC, -16/-14 Thac0, 2 Attacks per round, +10 damage, (~44 damage per hit)
    Archer: -8 AC, -22 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +0 Damage, (~25 damage per hit)
    Skald: -17 AC, -1 Thac0, 1 attack per round, (~22 damage per hit)

    As you can see, swashbuckler is better than the berserker/cleric except it doesn't get as many attacks per round. With whirlwind however, it will do more damage. The berserker/cleric does get some pretty nice spells. Skald is fairly useless in combat once you reach mid-game. Besides the skald's pitiful thac0, this is all with the improve bard song active. Kensai has spirit armor active.

    This is all at the end of the game, 7.5 million experience points and fully equipped with items.

    zur312
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013

    Well if you look at the stats of % of kills, its about 42% Kensai, 20% Fighter/Cleric, 19% Archer, 9% Swashbuckler, 2% Skald, 4% Necromancer.

    They all have 24 or 25 strength at this point, they started with 19, 18/94, and 18 respectively. All 6 are imported from BG 1 so I have some extra +1 stats here and there.

    Kensai -16 AC,-32/-29 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +12 damage (~48 damage per hit)
    Cleric: -17 AC, -16 Thac0, 7/2 Attacks per round, +14 damage (~38+ damage per hit)
    Swashbuckler: -24 AC, -16/-14 Thac0, 2 Attacks per round, +10 damage, (~44 damage per hit)
    Archer: -8 AC, -22 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +0 Damage, (~25 damage per hit)
    Skald: -17 AC, -1 Thac0, 1 attack per round, (~22 damage per hit)

    As you can see, swashbuckler is better than the berserker/cleric except it doesn't get as many attacks per round. With whirlwind however, it will do more damage. The berserker/cleric does get some pretty nice spells. Skald is fairly useless in combat once you reach mid-game.

    This is all at the end of the game, 7.5 million experience points and fully equipped with items.

    so kensai is better than shapeshifter
    glad to know

    very insightful post about damage

    was this ~medium damage or max damage?

    Could you send me your save file? something like rapidshare would be great

    Post edited by zur312 on
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 799
    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    Assassin
    Fighter/Cleric
    Mage

    Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.

    why not kensai/mage?

    Ehh, I like my pure mages.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    GemHound said:

    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    Assassin
    Fighter/Cleric
    Mage

    Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.

    why not kensai/mage?

    Ehh, I like my pure mages.

    was your party bg1 or bg2 power?

  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 799
    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    Assassin
    Fighter/Cleric
    Mage

    Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.

    why not kensai/mage?

    Ehh, I like my pure mages.

    was your party bg1 or bg2 power?
    Up to ToB. Once I got to ToB I needed fluff.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    GemHound said:

    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    Assassin
    Fighter/Cleric
    Mage

    Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.

    why not kensai/mage?

    Ehh, I like my pure mages.

    was your party bg1 or bg2 power?
    Up to ToB. Once I got to ToB I needed fluff.
    any AI mods like scsii or tactics?

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited April 2013
    Does the jester kit have any business in a power gaming party? Is their song effected by mr, do significant foes have immunity? Anybody experience this in SoA or ToB?? They can become a skald essentially later on with improved bard song. So can a blade, perhaps blade is best ... what do y'all think?

    Post edited by Anaximander on
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Imo Bards add nothing substantial to the power of a party. While their enhancements and utility are nice, they come at too high a cost (i.e. diminished damage output).

    That is from a powergaming perspective, of course. Bards are perfectly viable characters, even in very hard, modded games. They just aren't better than the alternatives.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013
    it is like this
    scumbag powergaming
    oh i see you are making a bard blade
    let me sing you song of my people
    kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    zur312 said:

    it is like this
    scumbag powergaming
    oh i see you are making a bard blade
    let me sing you song of my people
    kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage

    This makes no sense. You seem to begin with a diminishing hierarchy of powergaming, from 'scrumbag' to blade to ordinary bard, but then you end with a string of Kensai/Mages which would appear to loop around to the initial option.

    My mind is broken.

    [Deleted User]
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013
    it is a meme and should be funny. Maybe only funny in my head?
    actually it is my broken english

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    zur312 said:

    it is a meme and should be funny. Maybe only funny in my head?

    I think it's just a meme I don't know. And therefore simply confuses me. Carry on!

    [Deleted User]
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Eudaemonium
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    it is probably my broken english
    what i want to write and what i actually do is a little off

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Heh, don't worry about it :)

  • ShadowTigerShadowTiger Member Posts: 60
    Here is the save file, it goes in the mpsave folder.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/e951s9c0iz9gpga/000000015-Shadow 5.zip

    I did use some minor cheats to enhance the experience for myself... such as some illegal proficiency points, some innate abilities... etc. They don't really change how powerful so you can just ignore that. I did give my kensai Use Any Item just for fun but I unequipped the illegal items for the purpose of those numbers.

    The damage numbers are rough averages... I guess critical hit damage is the best way to measure consistent damage.

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