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[Known, #7143] [CORE] - Dual class thief backstab bug.

leeowensoasleeowensoas Member Posts: 72
edited September 2014 in BGII:EE Bugs (v1.2.2030)
I leveled an assassin to 25, dualed to a fighter, and then used CLUA to max my xp and reactivated my thief class. But after the dual, my backstab suddenly reverted to 2x, not the mighty 7x it should be!

Post edited by Illydth on
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Comments

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    Have a similar bug, except my level 15 assassin dueled to a mage has a backstab multiplier of x0

  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    Hmmm.. that's odd.. no problem with a level 12/18 Shadowdancer/Mage here.. 3x.. as it should be.

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    edited November 2013
    Sorry to be a pain, but further testing and experimentation have revealed that the bug apparently only exists on dual-classing an Assassin to a Mage, Assassin/Fighter or Assassin/Cleric doesn't have the same issue, neither does Thief/Mage, Bounty Hunter/Mage or Shadowdancer/Mage, a second Assassin/Mage was created to the same result as the first. (Side notation: All subsequent testing was done with the experience gifting abilities of EEKeeper, where as the original Assassin/Mage was leveled legitimately through gameplay, although I doubt it's a factor in the name of thorough testing I believed it best to mention) I hope the additional information is of some small assistance in finding the cause.

    I have taken a cursory glance through the .2da files in hope of a quick resolution, however I lack any real knowledge of the infinity engine and my search turned up little of value. If anyone with a greater knowledge than I was able to advise me I would be happy to see if I could find a solution.

  • leeowensoasleeowensoas Member Posts: 72
    Well I was definitely having the problem dualing an Assassin/Fighter, so I don't think it's just A/M. But this also could be due to leveling with the Console rather than legitimately...

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    The second Assassin/Mage had the bug even though I gifted the experience with EEKeeper, Although since you are of course right that the instant gain of 16 mage levels may have circumvented the issue I found with the original character, that the problem persisted with that specific class combo led me to believe that it was less relevant. I shall test via leveling each class combo independently in game, although those results shall take considerably longer of course.

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    Using the Console I have made a strange discovery. If I allocate my Mage proficiency into dagger at dual classing opposed to sling, the backstab multiplier seems to be just fine, I was wondering if anyone else had discovered this problem whilst assigning points into ranged weaponry, specifically leeowensas did your Assassin/Fighter have ranged weapon proficiency?

    RAM021
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Gate70,

    Backstab modifier is determined in-game (using BACKSTAB.2DA), EE Keeper has very little say in that regard.

    The assassin kit gets a bonus, though, which is applied as an affect. This bug only seems to have an effect on the Assassin kit when dual classing. If you edit a character from, say, a fighter. Editing this character to a Fighter/Assassin where the Assassin is the first class (originally, the Fighter should have been), and then adding levels via Keeper will end up with x0 Backstab. Applying the two affects that normally get applied on level up bumps it up to x2. x2 is reproducible in-game without Keeper. It's still a bug, but Keeper will not show reproducible results. This also applies when using DLTCEP or NI.

    @Kastian, for the best results when providing information to us about bugs, NI, DLTCEP, EE Keeper, and mods should not be used. :)

  • EmptinessEmptiness Member Posts: 238
    So: If an Assassin dual-classes (via normal in-game processes, with no mods or edits involved), the Assassin's backstab modifier will be incorrect even after regaining use of the Assassin levels.

    Did I understand correctly?

    If so, is there a workaround? Or, should we wait to dual-class our Assassins until after a patch fixes the problem?

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    edited November 2013
    I apologize if i was unclear. I used EEKeeper just to add experience, i changed nothing else on my character, i didn't change my class with it, i started new characters each time and added the experience values required to reach the desired thief level, then dual classed, saved and once again added the experience required to reach 16th level in the secondary class. As someone pointed out gaining all those levels at once might cause issues, i then used the console to level up one level at a time, however both ways reached the same result.

    Obviously reaching 15 as an assassin four times, a bounty hunter, a thief and a shadow dancer, then reaching 16 as a mage five times as well as once as a fighter and once as a cleric would have taken a great deal of time if i were to do so via playing the game normally, as i had with my first assassin/mage which was simply a character i was leveling with intent to carry through to ToB

    @Emptiness. basically yes, however aslong as I do not assign ranged weapon proficiency upon dual-classing i found no issue, and my Backstab multiplier was correct, i tested this at varying intervals, and each time as long as no ranged proficiency was selected, i received the correct multiplier be it 2x all the way upto x7.

    @Troodon80. Yes thank you for the reply, I did find the backstab.2da however as the correct value is used atleast for me in everything except Assassin/Mage with sling proficiency. The values in that 2da were of course correct.
    I have a secondary installation of both BG:EE and BGII:EE which have no mods or secondary programs involved in them in anyway. Other than using EEKeeper for gaining experience quickly as i stated. It was in those that I did my testing. (as a side note the same issue occurs in BG:EE, again only when sling proficiency is selected upon Dual-Classing to a mage.

    RAM021
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Kastian, using Keeper just to add experience is fine, though is seems a bit longer than just using the C:SetCurrentXP() to add it. :)

    Gaining those levels in-game in one go should be fine, too.

    I don't suppose the issue you are having would be in any way related to this?

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    It very well could be, i haven't had time to read the entire topic, sadly sometimes at work i actually need to work. But my character was in no way altered, I began BGII:EE as an assassin, leveled to 15 through quests, dual-classed to a mage, Leveled through quests (and admittedly a little bit of an exploit, namely removing spells from my spellbook, kicking my party members and relearning them for the experience) when i first encountered the issue, which i did by noticing that after several attempts to quickly eliminate spell casters i was not receiving the Quintuple damage i would normally have received on such a character.
    However regardless of whether or not its related, i would like to thank you for your assistance, i appreciate any help in resolving an issue that is preventing me from continuing with that character.

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Emptiness, currently there is no work around for it, but it will be looked at. I would suggest waiting to dual-class, though such a thing should be capable of being patched retroactively; it just means you won't be able to take advantage of the backstab until such a patch.

  • BackstabBackstab Member Posts: 12
    Repost for those inflicted:

    As a workaround for those who don't want to wait for a fix or step away from dual-classing until then: Create an assassin character and level them until they get their additional backstab multipliers, save this character. Open both your bugged mage\thief and the new assassin in Keeper, go to affects, and 'Copy' the affect (0x0107) from the assassin. 'Paste' it on the affects page of your mage\thief and every instance should add X amount of backstab multiplier. I am not sure how many each. The character I am looking at has 7 lines of it and is listed as having a multiplier of x11; I do not know if this is correct though it definitively feels like it. This version might bug the backstab message and replace it with a blank message, but any failed attempt will display appropriately. I wouldn't know if this is unique to the 0x0107 affect building on a previous one or what.
    That said, on level-up you will see "Backstab multiplier increased by -X" (presumably the amount added by the Keeper,) but you really don't have to worry about that as the affect is permanent until you manually remove it from the affects menu. Of course, this means you can add as high a backstab multiplier as you want to any character at any level ignoring their thief-level-reliant multiplier (it will stack cumulatively). So you can drop it on a shadow dancer for game-breaking results. However when I was sleuthing this information up from ancient forums (at least when measured by activity) there was a mention that the character would need the innate ability to backstab first (Backstab multiplier x0), but I haven't tested this. If this is the case a ranger will be unable to enjoy the affect even though he has a stealth ability, or possibly just a fighter made invisible by spell or potion. I simply do not know. Feel free to test it out, I'm sure a backstabbing dwarven defender with a invis potion drinking problem would be humorous.

    RAM021
  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    Sadly not a working solution, backstab multiplier for all classes at least seems to be handled by the .2da now, where as originally it was just a standardized multiplier for thieves, with the affects to alter it. The only effect on an Assassin now is the flat +1 to hit and damage. Atleast as far as i can find, if i'm wrong, and i am as often as i'm right when it comes to programming issues, then i would appreciate someone pointing out where the effect resides.

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Kastian, technically it is a valid workaround. I dual-classed my Cavalier into a Fighter/Assassin with Keeper, and applied the affect that would normally be applied to an Assassin. See the attached images.

    It does mean you will have to remove them later, however.

    You will be required to tell us whether or not you have edited your save game if a potential future bug rises, as diagnosing a bug later on may be slightly more difficult if you have (though it shouldn't, there's no guarantee).

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    Seem to have solved this issue, the Backstab.2da was in fact the culprit, the spelling of Assassin was in that file Assasin. Now how it worked half of the time i'm not sure, possibly due to what could be redundant programming, since in scouring through every single file i could think of under no circumstance could i find an affect that in any way dealt with backstabbing in the EE version of the game, certainly when i tested using a vanilla non EE edition, yes, exactly as other posters have specified, so i am curious if just my installation is using only .2da's for the information, as that would be an entirely different bug to report.
    However i digress, in the simple addition of a single S into the appropriate line in the aforementioned .2da, each game i loaded, even the tester characters i created and mentioned in an earlier post, now have the correct backstab multiplier. I apologize for not noticing that before hindering everyone with my posting, however i was tired and fairly intoxicated the first time i inspected those files.

    AranneasRAM021
  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    edited November 2013
    ^ nice solve, much good, so help. easy fix, add patch?

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    edited November 2013
    The site here doesn't seem to allow the upload of .2da files, i would be happy to send the file to a moderator or anyone with the clearance to upload it, alternatively for anyone wishing the .2da in the meantime, i would be happy to send it to you if you simply send me an E-mail at [email protected] requesting it.
    As for installing it, simply drop it into the override folder in your installation directory. (it's a very small file, just 3kb)

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Kastian, you can use a program to zip/rar/7-zip and then attach that. :)

    Also, as far as 'Assasin' goes, that is how it is spelt in all the 2DA and IDS files. It is incorrect, and provided quite a pain for me when programming EE Keeper to read the game files (I like my spelling to be correct, but without hard-coding it).

    I'm not sure what the effect of renaming it will be, however.

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    @Troodon80 the effect of renaming it for me fixed absolutely all the cases of the problem. As now even my original character that i noticed the bug on in the first place now has the correct multiplier, without needing to level up or restart, i simply loaded, checked the record page, and it was correct, then tested it much as you did on a poor commoner to find that i also now dealt the relevant damage.

  • KastianKastian Member Posts: 30
    edited November 2013
    For anyone requiring the .2da. hopefully it will solve your issue as it did mine.
    Also thank you Troodon80, i truly appreciate your help and patience in answering me despite my general, usually considered irritating attitude and approach to, well everything.

    Troodon80
  • mahkmahk Member Posts: 20
    Just noticed I have the same problem. Dual-classed from bounty hunter to fighter. Currently 11/14 with backstab multiplier x0. Don't think it is solely an assassin problem.

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    sorry, should have posted here when i found the problem.

    It was using the actual classname for dualclassed thieves instead of the predefined name. This caused the problem with assassin vs assasin (I really don't know why but the code always used the three s version) as well as bounty hunter vs bounty_hunter. when the bug really shines is with other languages when it checks assasin vs [odd name my keyboard doesn't have the keys to type].

    changing the 2da to match would fix your dual classes, but i think it might also break single classes.

    hopefully this'll make it into the next patch.

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    SethDavis said:

    changing the 2da to match would fix your dual classes, but i think it might also break single classes.

    I can actually confirm this. Using the above attached 2DA file, my single class Assassin has a backstap multiplier of x0.

    SethDavis
  • mahkmahk Member Posts: 20
    Guess that 2da file was a fix for assassins. Didn't have an effect on my bounty hunter.

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    I don't think there is an equivalent workaround for bounty hunters since the in game version has a space in it which would confuse the 2da

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    @Gate70 - it should be fine with what's there. just tested with bounty hunter and the fix applies

  • NostramazosNostramazos Member Posts: 2
    Using Kastian's method, how can I fix the problem in BGII:EE Steam version? I cannot find the .2da files anywhere. Please make your explanation assuming that I am a dummy:)

    Nostramazos

  • NostramazosNostramazos Member Posts: 2
    Thank you, that worked.

    Nostramazos

  • rvr808303rvr808303 Member Posts: 4
    I have the non-Steam version of BG2:EE and I'm playing an assassin/mage imported from BG1:EE as a level 10 assassin.

    I dualed to mage at level 17 for the x6 backstab multiplier. I went to the Watcher's keep to get the last bits of XP needed to finally unlock the assassin part of the character.

    I'm in SoA Chapter 6, didn't confront Bodhi yet for the Rhynn Lanthorn.

    When I reached the 3 million xp required for the level up, i was left with a backstab multiplier of x1.

    I downloaded the workaround posted here that contains the correct backstab.2da and copied it to my override folder.
    Now I have a backstab multipliter of x7 which is closer, but should only be obtainable with a level 21 assassin...

    Could it be that for some reason it recognizes the 18 mage levels as well as the 17 assassin levels when it counts the backstab multiplier value?

    Any thoughts on this?

    Can I EEKeeper it to the correct value?

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