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[New version of map available for testing!] Baldur's Gate meets Heroes of Might and Magic 3

ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
edited August 2 in Fan Creations
Hey everyone,

In order to surpress any thoughts of my duties and distracting myself I started to create the swordcoast, that is the area of Baldur's Gate 1, as a map of Heroes of Might and Magic 3.

I'd like your opinion on this as well as some advice and thoughts if you'd like.
What is good, what is bad - what should be added?

What would you like to see in a certain areas and how should it be implemented?

Here some pics of my work so far.
Please keep in mind that it's work in progress :)

Also there are a lot of things you just can't do because the HoMM3 Editor is limited in that regard of course.
This is just for fun anyway ;)

A note about canon design and storyline:
Please be aware that this map was never intended to be a replay of Baldurs Gate 1 in form of Heroes of Might and Magic. I take a lot from the game for designing the map and for the story - however in certain points I do deviate a lot from the game for various reasons.

I already explained why the design of the underground maps for example differs so much.

Concerning the story keep in mind that you do not replay the story from the game.
You can regard this map as taking place in an alternate universe.

Things do not exactly happen the way they do in Baldur's Gate. Faction, people may behave differently.
Some events turn out to be different. Some people are not even mentioned. I am not sure the protagonist from Baldur's Gate will even be mentioned

The map is not done yet. I am not finished.
I would just like to let you know that it will be my very own interpreation in terms of design and story.
And it may deviate a lot in some points.

I post this note here because I am aware of just how much some readers of "A Song of Ice and Fire" loathe its TV adaption. They expect the tv adaption to be the very same experience as the books.

So my message to you is: Do not expect this to be a Baldur's Gate 1, or any kind of Baldur's Gate game for that matter. It's an adaption with a lot of deviation. Of course you are free to like or dislike it.


A further note on my storytelling:

Do you know the ABC TV show "Once Upon a Time"?
A good analogy of what I am doing with the storytelling in my scenario is what "Once Upon a Time" does to the classical fairy tailes we all know. In that show the stories are twisted, changed, sometimes entirely, sometimes just a bit.

So viewers think they know characters and events and to some degree they do.
But they will always be surprised at one point or another because a story or character turns out to be different from what they'd expect.

And this is what I'll be doing. You will see many familiar locations, and factions, and you will think you know how things *have to* turn out, because well you know Baldur's Gate.
But just as "Once Upon a Time" twists the classical fairy tales, I will twist a lot on the Baldur's Gate story and events.

You will see enough, I hope, to feel "at home" so to say. And yet because of the twists you will discover many new things and hopefully be surprised. And maybe it will make you think if and how things could have turned out differently in Baldur's Gate.

Not to mention I already said that this scenario is not Baldur's Gate of course.
Just as Once Upon a Time does not tell the actual fairy tales as we know them.

If you want the original, then go for the original ;)



The Sword Coast

image

Baldur's Gate:
image

Candlekeep:
image

Nashkel:
image

Nashkel Carnival & Nashkel Mines:
image

Ulgoth's Beard:
image

Bandit Camp:
image

Peldvale:
image

Durlag's Tower:
image

Beregost & Ulcaster:
image

Undercity:
image

Cloakwood Forest & Friendly Arm:
image


Post edited by Shandaxx on
BelgarathMTHbooinyoureyesLordRumfishAedanelminsterTressetbob_vengNonnahswritermlneveseNihilusJuliusBorisovTomarctusTuthlolienNimranAnduinCrevsDaakaerefrygtSarvWithinAmnesiaTEMNOZORANKerozevokKidCarnivalRideratArdanisZaferickSpudulationDanitheangeldevilGoturalShYarivNoobaccaYgramulMirandelThacoBellPokotaTimbo0o0o0ShikaoRavenslight
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Comments

  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    edited November 2014
    @meagloth‌

    Thank you.

    Do you recognize some areas of Baldur's Gate 1 in those pictures?

    If you do, that means I did a decent job ;)
    elminsterTuthlolien
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Shandyr said:

    @meagloth‌

    Thank you.

    Do you recognize some areas of Baldur's Gate 1 in those pictures?

    If you do, that means I did a decent job ;)

    I certainly do. The first one is clearly the lighthouse area. I'm a bit unsure about the other one but I think it's the area with the gnolls and the dead cat in the waterfall on the way to the gnoll stronghold.
    ShandaxxelminsterlolienCrevsDaak
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 4,336
    Judging by the placement of the gnoll fortress and the lighthouse, I'm guessing that town in the second picture is Nashkel?

    I'd love to download this and play it when you're done, although I'll have to review how to install custom maps in Homm3. I used to do it all the time with Homm1 and Homm2, so I imagine it's not that hard.

    What is your basic scenario concept? Are you making it as multi-scenario campaign, or as a single map scenario?

    Will you start out with Charname as your main hero, with loss of Charname as a lose condition? I can imagine the win condition being for Charname to conquer and hold all the towns like Candlekeep, Friendly Arms Inn, Beregost, Nashkel, Baldur's Gate, and the Gnoll Stronghold. Of course, if you program the human towns as enemies, they'll be trying to attack and conquer Candlekeep, assuming that's where Charname starts, so that would be like the whole Sword Coast is having a civil war.

    I can imagine lots of opportunities to have recruitable heroes that mimic the NPC's - Imoen, Jaheira, and Minsc could be running around with their own armies.

    Maybe the win condition could be for Charname to defeat Sarevok, but that would mean that Sarevok would build an army in Baldur's Gate, and Charname would have to attack the city, wouldn't it? Or maybe you could program Sarevok in a closed-off area near Baldur's Gate with his presumably huge army already built, as a single enemy hero with no town.

    I guess you could put blocks such as key tents around to control events, such that the gnolls in the gnoll stronghold wouldn't be able to move out of their area to attack the human towns until the player unlocked the key tent.

    You could create monster castles to conquer using Bassilus in a necropolis, and Mutamin in a witches' castle (I think it was witches - what was the swamp castle that had basilisks as one of its monsters?) Of course, if you do that, Charname could wind up leading an army of hydras and ghost dragons against Sarevok, which would be kind of funny, unless you restrict monster types in those castles.

    Either water elementals or medusas works for the sirens, but if you use medusas, you could maybe create a warlock's castle (I think it was called "dungeon"?) to conquer that resembles the cave with the book of constitution (which you could win there, using some similar magic item available in the Homm3 program.)

    I'd be interested in hearing some more details about your concept for how it will play. I'm having a lot of fun just brainstorming about it.
    ShandaxxJuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 887
    I have fond memories of the first 3 HoMM games, these games belong to the same era so it feels right that they have been combined. I made a good many custom maps back in the day myself. ^_^
    ShandaxxlolienBelgarathMTHCrevsDaak
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 5,441
    awesome! love the gnoll fortress

    how about some wild zombies in the northeast????
    ShandaxxBelgarathMTHCrevsDaak
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700

    awesome! love the gnoll fortress

    how about some wild zombies in the northeast????

    Thank you :D

    I'm working on Ulcaster and Beregost atm, but for sure I'll add a zombie infestation in the northeast ;D

    By the way I have a problem: Where to place Durlag's Tower?

    I'm using this map as a rough reference:

    image

    Problem: There's no place for Durlag's Tower

    Where is that tower supposed to be anyway?

    It would be nice to know its location in relation to:
    a) Nashkel Carnival
    b) Gullykin
    c) Firewine Bridge
    booinyoureyeslolien
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    edited November 2014

    Also for the sirens, use pixies!

    Hmm, I guess it fits better because you'd more likely want to kiss a pixie than a medusa or water element.

    Ok, pixie it is!


    For the circus you can use the recruitment building for cavaliers/champions.

    Just did that :D
    And the tent for the nomads


    Candlekeep should be... a library!

    Candlekeep is a Tower Town at the moment.

    I think I'll let that stay because I'd like to use as many town types as possible.

    And anyway - Tower towns can build libraries themselves :D


    Don't forget a Cerberus for Rufie!

    Rufie is already there as well as Albert! Have a close look at the second picture :D
    booinyoureyeslolienBelgarathMTH
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    Tresset said:

    A neriad is a creature from the plane of water so use a water elemental for Shoal.

    Also...

    THIS IS PURE AWESOME!!!!

    Make sure to upload the finished product!

    Wow thank you for the promote :)

    The problem is that I think nobody would like to kiss a water elemental in the first place xD

    And what about the sirens at the lighthouse area? Sil and her clan?
    Should they be water elementals as well?
    booinyoureyeslolien
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 7,032
    Ice Elemental, perhaps? Just to have different creatures.
    By the way, I would kiss a water elemental - they are drawn so well I could not resist :)
    JuliusBorisov
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 6,207
    Hmm sirens... Lets see... They shoot bows and kiss at melee... not many spell casting creatures in H3 so I would say medusae would fit fairly well actually.
    ShandaxxJuliusBorisovlolienBelgarathMTH
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    edited November 2014
    Okay, so I think I will use this map for determining the correct location of Durlag's Tower and Ulgoth's Beard:

    image

    So Durlag's Tower will be north-east of Gullykin and Ulgoth's Beard will be south-west of Baldur's Gate.

    This is in contrast to what the ingame map shows but I think they ran out of space there ;)
    lolien
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 7,032
    edited November 2014
    The first image looks like Beregost. I like they way you drew it :) You even put the halfling messanger's body!
    ShandaxxJuliusBorisov
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 7,705
    Shandyr said:

    @Aedan‌

    You would kiss that? :O

    image

    @Shandyr that's what illusion magic was created for, isn't it?
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    Nihilus said:


    As for the map, what are the underground passages for? Do they represent the iron mines of the Sword Coast?

    It's more or less everytime you go underground in the game :)

    The underground passages are so far:

    Ursa's cave, Idol of Kozah cave, Cave at the map of Waterfall in the cloudpeaks (the map with Drienne),
    One underground passage at the gnoll fortress to represent the three caves there.

    And Ulcaster ruins:
    The Necropolis represents Ulcaster Castle itself, whereas you can go below the castle via underground passage.


    NihilusAedanlolien
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    edited November 2014
    I stumbled upon this updated map from this thread.

    image

    That map will be used to determine the location of:
    Aldoy's enclave
    Ulgoth's Beard
    Cloud Peaks (Rasaad's quest area)
    Durlag's Tower

    So Cloud Peaks area will not be south of Nashkel mines, even though in Baldur's Gate you have to travel south of them to get there.
    lolienCrevsDaak
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    I could put a portal south of Nashkel mines though that leads to Cloud Peaks.

    Or I make it accessible by travelling south of the area with Narcillicus Harwilliger Neen.

    What do you think?
    How to access the Cloud Peaks area?
    lolien
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,700
    edited November 2014
    Hmm, I have given this some thought, @BelgarathMTH‌ :

    I really want to turn this now into a playable map that is fun to play.

    However, there will be some loss of immersion because I need to place sawmills and mines where in the actual game Baldur's Gate there are none.

    For example: I will replace some small caves (underground passages) with mines and some ponds with gem ponds and so on.

    My ideas for the fractions would be:

    Inferno: Sarevoks fraktion - starting point underground of Baldur's Gate.
    You plan to slaughter everyone and everything to prove yourself as the new Lord of Murder.

    Stronghold: Bandit Camp fraction - With Tazok absent the Chills rise into rebellion.
    No longer do they want to work with humans! The hobgoblins have chosen you as their leader to show everyone that they're far superior to pitiable humans!

    Fortress: You are the gnoll leader's son and must prove your worth by raiding and conquering the Sword Coast.

    Tower Town: Will be moved. Candlekeep will no longer be a town. Instead, Shar's Temple will be Tower Town and in the name of Shar you will conquer the Sword Coast.

    Dungeon: The denizen of the Underdark are back! They once used their agents to infiltrate the dwarves at Durlag's Tower. Now they're back and use the tower as a base of operations to terrorize the Sword Coast!

    Rampart: You are a shadow druid of Cloakwood Forest! No longer can you tolerate what humans do to Mother Nature.
    You start in the Rampart settlement of the shadow druid enclave. Your first step should be to take your forces west and kill those humans who have taken control of the old dwarven mine (will be a rampart town as well).
    After that you must drive humans from the Sword Coast for once and for all so that Mother Nature can finally prosper in peace.

    Bhaalspawn (mainchar from the games): You don't have a starting town. You should hurry to get to the Friendly Arms Inn (Castle town settlement) or Beregost (Castle Town settlement) to get one. It's up to you how you proceed from there on.

    Those were the playable fractions.
    Neutral towns are:

    Castle town types:
    Baldur's Gate, Ulgoth's Beard, Friendly Arms Inn, Nashkel

    Conflux type:
    Aldoy's enclave

    Necropolis type:
    Ulcaster castle

    As always just a first sketch in progress :)
    JuliusBorisovlolienBelgarathMTH
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 12,236
    edited November 2014
    Wonderful ideas, @Shandyr‌

    Your sketch is very fine. I would suggest trying the Mandate of Heaven map for HOMM3 (http://heroesportal.net/maps.php?type=H4-XL&lang=english&pagenum=4) - you can see how different RPG situations from M&M6 are dealt in that map. I personally like it very much. You can also check that map on the subject of how many mines and other objects should be on a map based on the RPG, how many monsters and so on.

    I hope you've played M&M6 :) - if not, you should definitely try

    @BelgarathMTH‌ Installing custom maps in HOMM3 is very simple, you just unpack your map into the maps folder of your game.
    ShandaxxAedanlolienBelgarathMTH
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