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Ankheg plate mail has incorrect AC

_Q__Q_ Member Posts: 42
edited August 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
Current behavior:
Ankheg Plate Mail has an AC of 1.

Expected behavior:
Ankheg Plate Mail should have an AC of 2. According to the Ankheg entry in the 2nd edition Monstrous Manual, "Dried and cured ankheg shells can be made into armor with an AC of 2..."

Post edited by Bhryaen on
bigdogchris
«13

Comments

  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    This is a feature request, not a bug... but it's been noted.

  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    Also, the armor is tagged as having a magical bonus which prevents the wearing of other armor enhancing items. Maybe it's really Ankheg Plate +1 just not labeled as such?

    Syntia13
  • _Q__Q_ Member Posts: 42
    edited August 2012
    Bhryaen said:

    This is a feature request, not a bug... but it's been noted.

    Is there a reason why? Not trying to be annoying, but I would think that if something goes against 2nd edition AD&D rules, it's a bug.
    decado said:

    By your normal bum armoursmith that's true. However the suit you get in BG is made by the Thunderhammer himself! That adds another -1 to the AC.

    That's a good point. But if that's the explanation, shouldn't it be considered "Masterwork Ankheg Plate Mail," or a I confusing 2nd edition and 3rd edition rules?

    And if the Ankheg plate that is crafted for you is masterwork, what about the Ankheg plate you find in Nashkel? Should that be regular Ankheg Plate Mail with an AC of 2?

    While we're on that note, the in-game item description for Ankheg Plate Mail mentions that it was crafted for you by Taerom Fuiruim. Shouldn't the Ankheg plate found in Nashkel also have a different description since it was not crafted by him?
    SirK8 said:

    Also, the armor is tagged as having a magical bonus which prevents the wearing of other armor enhancing items. Maybe it's really Ankheg Plate +1 just not labeled as such?

    It's no longer considered magical. That was a bug. See this topic for more details: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1287/bg1-bug-ankheg-plate-plat06-incorrectly-designated-as-magical/p1

  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    BG Ankheg armor being magical isnt a bug, there is no evidence for that. Its the way it works in bg1 and bg2. And as we see here, its also by the rules.

  • _Q__Q_ Member Posts: 42
    It definitely is a bug. It's already been fixed for BGEE.

  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Thats a logical fallacy, altering stuff by unfounded demands doesnt mean its a bug. WotC is the authority here, then Bioware and they both say its magical actually.

  • BoasterBoaster Member Posts: 618
    Ankheg Armro will no longer be classified as magical in EE, from what I have seen.

  • solar_onesolar_one Member Posts: 12
    edited November 2012
    The plate found as an easter egg in Nashkel doesn't seem right to me with the description being unique to it being crafted by Thunderhammer. I always fully restore the (to level 20) SPWI315 Waithform spell and swap it out [idea 4 u]! Also, if we go by 2nd Ed., then it should either be AC 2 non-magical or AC 1 magical. I vote for non-magical so we can wear protection items with it so it works as best armor for druids, etc. However - since it is lightweight - the original game designers probably desire AC 1 magical me thinks.

    Post edited by solar_one on
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    Still coming up as AC1 in game. I have no problem moving it to AC2 to follow the handbook.

    Reason: What's the point in using the D&D rules if you just break them for no reason?

    *Edit* Changed to AC 2 if left as non-magical/not excluded as it is currently. If it's moved back to excluded then I'm fine with AC1.

    Post edited by bigdogchris on
  • hansolohansolo Member Posts: 136
    Make it AC 1 and magical or AC 2 non-magical.
    Either way it would at least be in accordance to the ADnD rules.
    I'd prefer the classic way as it was in Vanilla BG, namely AC 1 and magical.
    This being a bug is nonsense imho. It just wasn't stated in the description.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,241
    i agree that it should be changed AC2, no reason to deviate from the books here

    bigdogchris
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    I don't like the idea of some of the best armor in the game coming at the beginning of the game (almost). When you consider the missile piercing and slashing bonus (which rivals only full plate), this armor really is very powerful for the level.

    Can we please have this changed to AC2?

    *Edit* Changed to AC 2 if left as non-magical/not excluded as it is currently. If it's moved back to excluded then I'm fine with AC1.

    Post edited by bigdogchris on
    [Deleted User]
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    bigdogchris
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    Bhaaldog said:

    I don't like the idea of some of the best armor in the game coming at the beginning of the game (almost). When you consider the missile piercing and slashing bonus (which rivals only full plate), this armor really is very powerful for the level.

    I tend to concur with this. In addition I would have liked to have seen the one available by the "Easter Egg" route removed as well.
    I would prefer the easter egg version moved rather than removed. Put it somewhere harder to reach, perhaps in BG somewhere :)

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    I just looted the Platemail +3 from Durlags. That armor is completely worthless because Ankheg + ring of protection +1 is better. Even the slashing/piercing/missile bonuses on the Ankheg + ring combo are better.

    Ankheg needs to be changed to 2 AC per it's PnP item, especially now that the magical flag is gone and it's very easy to get multiple sets.

    *Edit* Changed to AC 2 if left as non-magical/not excluded as it is currently. If it's moved back to excluded then I'm fine with AC1.

    Plus in the other thread they are really pusing to get Ankheg to be Ranger/Druid usable.

    Plus plus, do we really want the best armor in the game to be easily looted at the beginning of the game?

    @AndreaColombo

    Could you take a look at this and see if we could pass it to the tracker? A whole lot of unbalancing is stacking up on this armor.

    Post edited by bigdogchris on
    elminster
  • thedemoninsidethedemoninside Member Posts: 188
    Um. Full plate gets better bonuses than Ankheg armors generic 1 AC. I'm sure when you are already at -7, 1 point isn't going to matter much for this armor.

    Btw I always turn in a ton of ankheg shells near the beginning, and then go pick up the armor in the field. In 3 playthroughs so far, the smith never gets the armor done. I explore every area fully, and check back alot and he never offers it to me.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,357

    especially now that the magical flag is gone

    This really was a terrible, terrible decision.

    hansolo
  • faeriehunterfaeriehunter Member Posts: 7
    Earlier today I was checking why the armor class modifiers (crushing, missile, piercing, slashing) of Ankheg Plate Mail corresponded with neither regular Plate Mail nor Full Plate. It turns out that the modifiers correspond to PnP Field Plate. Field Plate has an AC of 2, which is also the AC of Ankheg shell armor as described in the 2nd edition Monster Manual.

    From this I conclude that Ankheg Plate Mail in Baldur's Gate is meant to be a lightweight Field Plate and should be either AC 2 nonmagical or AC 1 magical.

  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    @faeriehunter So basically it should be Ankheg armour, or Ankheg +1 respectively.

    @bigdogchris What do you think about adding a new armour in place of the easter egg ankheg armour called "Battered Ankheg Armour" (it was buried after all). This could then be Armour class 3, still be usable by really weak characters and is not super unbalancing at the beginning of the game where it is super easy to find/everyone knows where it is :)

  • thedemoninsidethedemoninside Member Posts: 188
    Sounds like a good mod for some people.

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    @IchigoRXC

    I think changing it to AC2 or putting the magic flag back on is a better idea. Actually, how about both.

    Putting the flag back on would be an OK first fix but I think we should go a step further and go to AC2 as well. Even in vanilla BG Ankheg armor was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and it was always worn until the end of the game. Now it's even more so in BG:EE.

    CamDawg
  • RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
    It is not magical therefore i do not think it should have the flag.

    Also the armor is made by an expert smith and the game does a lot to emphasize that. So i can see why you would want it to be a +1 but he doesn't do anything magical to it when he makes it. The armor has no magical properties and it would be nonsensical to slap a +1 on there..

    I agree though that it would make more sense to have an AC of 2 either that or harder to obtain. Ankhegs are supposed to be difficult but when you bum rush them with fighters they are easily killed at level 3..


    As for the easter egg set.. Most people unfamiliar with the game are not gonna find this, and if you think it's game breaking simply don't get it

  • WooWoo Member Posts: 135
    In D&D there are Exceptional weapons that function as +1 weapons and receive +1 damage but not +1 hit, they are not counted as magical weapons. This armor is the same, it is an exceptional piece of NONMAGICAL armor, made by an exceptional smith. It receives lower weight, more mobility and exceptional AC.

    The Ankheg armor makes sense as it is.

    Riolathel
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    edited December 2012
    For lore purposes, I can see it going one of two ways (and I like both, though one slightly better; see if you can guess which...):

    1) Make it a mundane Ankheg Armor at AC 2. Then Taerom tells you that you can bring the armor to the mage west of Beregost to be enchanted. When you bring it to High Hedge, Thalantyr enchants it to +1 (AC 1) and it gains the Magical flag, making it the same as the armor you find in BG2. Give it an added cost for the cost of the enchantment.
    The manual states pretty clearly that Thalantyr and Taerom work together to enchant weapons and armor, so making it magical makes sense; the only thing missing is the bit where Taerom brings it to Thalantyr for the enchantment, so adding it as a "new side quest" (sort of) would both be an interesting addition and also true to the world of the game.

    2) Make it magical Ankheg Armor +1 when you get it from Taerom, but only if you don't ask for the rushed production. This gives him time to bring it to Thalantyr for enchanting, and results in a slightly better suit of armor. Add something to the +1 version's description about how it was enchanted by Thalantyr.
    It also means not changing dialogue or adding new dialogue for existing NPCs, which I understand was a point of contention. It'd be kind of an easter egg of its own.

    Either one would work; and a solution needs to be found anyway because the one in BG2 is definitely magical and definitely has an AC of 1, which means that they need to be two separate items.

    EDIT: For further lore clarification...
    Taerom Fuiruim is not an enchanter. He makes strong weapons and armor, but the lore clearly states that any magic weapons and armor have been enchanted by Thalantyr, who lives nearby. So while he can make Ankheg Armor out of a bunch of chitin, he can't make it magical by his own means.

    Mornmagorbob_veng
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    The lore description does not make it sound like the armor is magical so removing the magic flag itself was an OK idea but without touching the AC it was a mistake, the AC needs to be changed to match. The original intention of Ankheg being magical may of been that it was Ankheg AC2+1, enchanted by Thalantyr. You could argue that by removing the magic flag we've basically made Ankheg +1 a non-magical item.

    Easiest fix:

    Add magical flag back to Ankheg now that we know why it was added in first place. I think this is the most reasonable fix.

    Post edited by bigdogchris on
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    I prefer the fix where there are at least 2 different variations :) AC 2 non magical and AC 1 magical. On top of that, a quest to take it to thalantyr and adding a little extra cost would be nice.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    I think the reason it was magical in BG2 was to make it balanced with high-level equipment. In BG1 it was non-magical because, well, it wasn't. ;)

    My proposal is to make it non-magical at AC2, and then create a new +1 version that is magical but is only available if you get it enchanted by Thalantyr; and the description should note it as such.

    IchigoRXChansoloCrevsDaak
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