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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"



  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 741

    I'm fairly certain that Shandalar's script has been changed by the EE or a recent patch. The last time I fought him (unmodded EE, using the previous patch) he was even casting Flesh to Stone (which he certainly couldn't have done in vanilla BG1, since that spell wasn't even in the game afaik). However, in my current run the risk would be even greater, considering that I'm now playing with SCS and he's a high level spellcaster with a spellbook that's entirely unknown to me. In addition, I think that none of my spellcasters will gain access to level 4 spells before Chapter 5 anyway, so there isn't a real need to get his scrolls. I just got greedy, having already used potions of master thievery potions in order to steal Dushai's ring :)
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 873
    @enuhal ah I see - yes, risky indeed! However, even flesh to stone isn't too much of a problem with a potion of magic shielding handy. Vanilla BG 1 had a good number of protection from magic scrolls, maybe that would be a good use for Shandalar. But thanks for the clarification in any case, good know those things.
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    @CrevsDaak did I read wrong, or you're using Item revision together with Item upgrade (Thalantyr)?
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,410
    @Grond0 Further up this page Firehelm killed Belhifet and Marilith in BG1 (Drizzt Saga) and here you are killing Belhifet and maybe Marilith in BG2. Clearly it's not just Tazok who has powerful friends who will raise them. :)
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,410
    @Grond0 Not a lucky day for you, or me either. :(
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    edited September 2018

    semi: No-Reload Dragon Warrior Monsters Run

    Part 12

    Into the Gate of Judgment! First, I breed Sky the Whipbird with Wave the Wyvern for a new Whipbird, Wave, and breed Orca the Hornbeet with a spare Gophecada for another Hornbeet, Lash.

    After a single fight in the Gate of Judgment, they're already at level 15 and 12, respectively.

    One of the important things to do in this gate is to nab a SpotKing. We bought multiple expensive Sirloins to increase our chances here, and it pays off. We even get a female one, which we can breed with Hope the GoldGolem for a GoldSlime!

    But GoldSlimes have poor HP and terrible, terrible growth rates. They make great late-game healers, but they require LOTS of experience to get the higher-level healing spell upgrades, so they're better suited for gates after the Starry Night Tournament (which will be the final fight in this run; we won't do any of the post-tournament stuff). You can unlock a very nice gate if you get a GoldSlime, but as I would later learn, you can't unlock it until after the tournament.

    We catch a WeedBug from the wild and a WingSnake and a Rayburn from a couple of foreign priests. After earning several thousand gold by selling staffs to a wilderness merchant, we catch even more monsters: a GiantMoth, a LizardFly, and a BigEye. These are some good examples of how homely Dragon Warrior Monsters monsters can be compared to Pokemon.

    By the end of the gate, Lash and Wave have already hit level 32 and 28, surpassing our slower-growing GoldGolem. Everyone has sky-high stats across the board.

    On top of that, careful ordering during the gate has gotten all of them the best personality type in the game: Hotblood.

    The boss here is an Akubar, who is very critical of the whole "train animals to murder each other" thing.

    Hence "Gate of Judgment." The Akubar has the high-damage spell Explodet, but... even a boss like the Akubar has little resistance against LureDance.

    We dance-lock him and start applying pressure. We do pretty respectable damage considering the lack of grinding, though it's a lot less than we've done to weaker bosses.

    The Akubar gets some Explodet spells off the ground, but they only do about 50 damage a pop, and thanks to TakeMagic, one of our monsters gets 15 MP every time the Akubar casts it--which amounts to 2 complete heals from HealAll. Wave the Whipbird summons a Diago (not an in-game monster you can catch or breed for; it's just an invisible off-screen summoned critter in battles), which shows off its Scorching breath attack.

    Eventually we smash the Akubar, having taken essentially no damage. Watabou and the king both reassure us that training monsters to kill each other is both ethical and legal.

    It's finally time to tackle S class. First up is a VooDoll and two DanceVegis, who would be more threatening if they were actually capable of dealing damage.

    Next we have a Slime, Dracky, and ArmyAnt. The idea is that this enemy trainer never bred for any monsters; it just trained the same early-game monsters that we encountered until they got strong. The Slime, notably, can cast Firebolt, a moderately strong fire spell, and Radiant, a blinding spell we also have access to. However, these critters have poor defenses against LureDance, Radiant, or StopSpell.

    The final fight is against the Medal Man, who trains metallic critters. We've got a metal slime, a Metabble, a Roboster, and a MetalDrak. The Metabble can cast Explodet, the Roboster can use Rainslash to attack all of us at once, and the MetalDrak can use Massacre to deal massive damage to a random target. They actually hit pretty hard.

    The Metabble is much different from a Metabble you could get and train yourself. Enemy metal slimes have ludicrously high defense (much higher than you could get from any monster without extremely high levels) and only a few points of HP, so you'll usually miss when attacking them, or deal only a single point of damage when you land a hit.

    The other two monsters have good defense, but not as good as the Akubar's. We can smash right through their defenses thanks to TwinHits.

    The MetalDrak and Roboster go down pretty quick. With them gone, all we have to do is spend a few rounds struggling to land hits on the Metabble.

    We win S class handily. There is only one more gate we have to beat before the Starry Night Tournament and the end of the run: the Gate of Reflection, where we're supposed to discover our future.

    The Gate of Reflection is a step above the earlier gates. It's considerably longer and has considerably tougher critters who can deal and take heavy damage, from SlimeBorgs with RainSlash to Lionexes with Vacuum to MadHornets with PoisonHit and Shadows with ThickFog and IceAir. It's a very long, taxing gate that ends with an absolutely brutal three-part boss fight.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Arthas said:

    @CrevsDaak did I read wrong, or you're using Item revision together with Item upgrade (Thalantyr)?

    Nope, you've read that right, I am using both. Honestly, IR defeats the point of most of the Thalantyr upgrades, since most items in BG1 are better than in vanilla with it installed, and the majority of the upgraded items aren't that great. Since I'm the keeper of the Thalantyr mod I might give some of it's items a couple of modifications in case IR is installed, so that they get the properties of the IR items and end up being actually overpowered.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,097
    Nice going @Arctodus - stay safe in Amn when you get there :D.
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    edited September 2018
    CrevsDaak said:

    Arthas said:

    @CrevsDaak did I read wrong, or you're using Item revision together with Item upgrade (Thalantyr)?

    Nope, you've read that right, I am using both. Honestly, IR defeats the point of most of the Thalantyr upgrades, since most items in BG1 are better than in vanilla with it installed, and the majority of the upgraded items aren't that great. Since I'm the keeper of the Thalantyr mod I might give some of it's items a couple of modifications in case IR is installed, so that they get the properties of the IR items and end up being actually overpowered.
    I would be interested! Please release such a mod :)

    Thalantyr item upgrade is the reason I'm really undecided about installing that or Item revision when playing BG!
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 873
    edited September 2018
    Best of luck with your new druid run, @Grond0 ! By the way, I don't think the totemic druid or the shapeshifter made that much difference, vs. my fighter/druid party. If you had succeeded with those kits, I would have thought it would have been equivalent to my fighter/druids. I only think the avenger makes a big difference vs. my fighter/druids.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829

    semi: No-Reload Dragon Warrior Monsters Run

    Part 12

    We can use our RayBurn to unlock a new gate at the bottom of the well, and getting 100 different types of monsters also unlocks a gate in the library, but I really don't think they're necessary. Instead of spending extra time grinding, or even breed our monsters to make them stronger, I just head straight for the Gate of Reflection. Honestly, we just don't need any more experience. In fact, I even purchase a BeastTail to help us navigate the gate more quickly and get to the boss faster. It'll mean we get less experience, but I'd rather hurry to the final fight.

    The Gate of Reflection has some pretty high-end monsters. Right out of the gate, you have to deal with SlimeBorgs, EvilBeasts, LizardMen, Shadows, Grizzlies, Wyverns, and EvilWands. Normally, their high damage output would be very draining, but our stats are just too high for the enemy to make a real impact. Our own attacks are just too strong for them to last long.

    Our defenses are also very solid. An enemy Grizzly only does 30 damage to the party per hit--which is saying something, considering how strong our own Grizzly was earlier in the run.

    Later enemies include MadHornets and Lionexes. But even then, we can just crush them.

    We've barely gained any levels by the end, but it doesn't matter. We're already very strong and I have an inventory crammed with WorldDews and WorldLeafs for free party-wide heals and single-monster resurrections.

    The boss here is a Durran. Basically, he's just a dude with an impractical weapon who likes fighting. But first, he sends out a couple of his servants, who can be easily dance-locked.

    We hit them with StopSpell and tear them down with TwinHits-boosted basic attacks.

    The next fighter is our future self, a swordsman with the main character's default name, Terry. Terry is a power-obsessed fanatic who somehow got enslaved by this monster. He has incredible attack stats, but he's just as vulnerable to LureDance as everyone else. While Terry is busy dancing, we apply damage with QuadHits.

    Durran praises us for beating his monsters and our future self, and sees us as a way of satisfying his fetish for violence. Some of his lines are kinda creepy.

    Despite his humanoid appearance, Durran is actually a monster, a Devil type that we actually could have gotten ourselves by breeding our GoldGolem with a Centasaur (I even bred for a GateGuard to help get the latter). But a Durran is another slow-growing, low-stat Devil monster, and would be the utter inferior to our current GoldGolem.

    This one, however, is quite tough. Since his defense is so high, our QuadHits doesn't quite meet the threshold to deal serious damage. We actually do less damage than if we used a normal attack.

    We switch to normal attacks, still boosted by TwinHits, and spam LureDance, but Durran has some resistance to LureDance. But it doesn't matter--we have deep MP pools to fuel HealAll and Revive spells, and because this is the last fight during which we can use healing items (you can't use items at the arena), I can just keep using WorldDews to heal my party so they can focus on dealing damage.

    Durran is exhilarated by being defeated, and his lines are just as creepy as they are at the start of the fight. He says he's "shaking from the excitement." Our future self is more somber, telling us not to become obsessed with power like he was, and focus on our family.

    Notice Warubou dragging him away. I have no idea why Warubou, who is from our time and our dimension (his home, GreatLog, is in the same world as GreatTree), would be able to get his hands on our future self--or why Watabou wouldn't be able to do the same thing.

    Regardless, the Gate of Reflection is over. The Starry Night Tournament is next. There are only three more fights left in the run. The first two will be quick, but the last one will be the toughest fight we've ever faced.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829

    semi: No-Reload Dragon Warrior Monsters Run

    Part 13

    The Starry Night Tournament. Here we face the monster masters from three other kingdoms, the last of which is our rival, GreatLog. This is our party at the end of the game: a +9 Hornbeet, a +7 WhipBird, and a +7 GoldGolem.

    Normally a good party would be above +10 at this point, but this is a low-grinding run where we've only bred our monsters for a few generations. Even so, efficient choice of monsters has given us some very strong critters. Everyone in the party has ludicrous stats and some of the best skills in the game. All three of them have HealAll and Revive and we even have Surge (a party-wide cure for all status ailments), TwinHits, LureDance, TakeMagic, Radiant, StopSpell, and HealUsAll. A party doesn't really get any better than this.

    The first fight is against a Centasaur, Orochi, and SwordGon, a highly offensive-oriented team that would deal lots of damage if we didn't cripple them all with LureDance.

    Next up, we have an Andreal, a Unicorn, and a MadDragon. The Andreal can use an extremely dangerous area-effect poison breath attack, PoisonAir, but we have Surge to cure it. The Unicorn can use HealMore (mercifully, no enemy uses HealAll in DWM) and Revive, and the MadDragon is just a brute damage dealer. But we can shut down the Unicorn's spellcasting with StopSpell, neutralize the MadDragon with Radiant, and hobble all three with LureDance. The MadDragon manages to hit some of us with LureDance, but can do little more than that.

    The final is against...

    ...our own sister. It seems that Warubou kidnapped her and forced her to become a monster master to fight at the tournament--a bit like us, except Watabou never tried to force us to do anything; he just offered us a chance to find our sister.

    Ostensibly, this means the end of the game, since the whole point of the plot was to find Milayou. But the tournament must go on, and losing this fight still means a game over.

    Milayou has three very rare and high-end monsters: a metal slime, a MetalKing, a Coatol, and a RainHawk. Milayou has a blitzkrieg-style strategy: all three enemies use area-effect damage spells in an attempt to overwhelm the party. The MetalKing uses Zap, the Coatol uses Explodet, and the RainHawk uses MegaMagic.

    That last one is an absolute nightmare. MegaMagic is the highest-damage spell in the game, which deals damage based on the monster's intelligence, level, and MP. RainHawks grow slowly and are actually subpar monsters for maximizing MegaMagic, but Milayou has trained this one to a very high level, and MegaMagic alone is enough to one-shot most parties on the first try. MegaMagic takes all of the monster's MP to use, leaving the RainHawk drained, but a single use is generally enough to take down the player.

    The only realistic way to survive the first round of combat without access to very heavily-grinded monsters or some remarkable luck is to set everyone to "Cautious" on the first round. Lash, Wave, and Hope all defend themselves to minimize damage, and Hope uses StrongD to boost their defense further for a single round. We brace ourselves.

    Lash suffers horribly, but survives due to its sky-high HP. Wave has resistance to MegaMagic and takes much less damage. Hope has even stronger resistance thanks to being a GoldGolem, and with StrongD on hand, he barely takes any damage at all.

    The RainHawk is drained, but the MetalKing and Coatol still have lots of MP left, and they have extremely high agility, which means they get to attack first in the next round. We can't cast HealAll in time to save Lash from the next round.

    But Wave and Hope are still very much alive due to their high HP and resistances, and with access to both HealAll and Revive, the party quickly recovers.

    The enemy can still deal plenty of damage with Zap and Explodet, but HealAll and our deep HP pools can keep us alive for many rounds with little risk of death. We blind the Coatol and RainHawk with Radiant (the MetalKing, being a metal slime, is immune to almost everything) and cast TwinHits on everyone.

    Once we're in a safe position, we dance-lock the enemy and start smashing them. The MetalKing has near-unbreakable defenses, but the other two critters aren't nearly as sturdy.

    We stomp the RainHawk, and then only the MetalKing is left.

    The MetalKing only has so much HP left, and eventually it breaks down.

    Warubou, frustrated at Milayou's failure to win the tournament for his home kingdom of GreatLog, kidnaps Milayou again despite saying she's useless.

    But as the winner of the tournament, we still get to make a wish, and the stars will grant it. We wish to find our sister.

    To find her, all we have to do is go to the Shrine of Starry Night. The old man we met at the start of the game leads us down and promises to show us the meaning of the tournament. An egg appears from the stardust, and out hatches... a Watabou!

    Apparently this is how the giant trees of this world reproduce. The tournament spawns a new Watabou that goes on to create new kingdoms. We touch Watabou to get our wish, and we are teleported back to our home, where Milayou is safe and sound in her bed.

    We check the drawer that served as the entrance to GreatLog, but find nothing. When we get back, Milayou has awoken, and tells us about a dream she had, in which we traveled to another world and fought in a tournament with monsters--then we find a spare piece of meat from GreatTree in our pocket, proving the dream was real. The credits roll, and we see a few of the monsters we never encountered in the wild or bred for: a Watabou, GoldSlime, AgDevil, and Divinegon.

    There are a lot more monsters than the few we've found, and a 100% playthrough to catch all the monsters would take a massive amount of time--maybe longer than the contemporary Pokemon games, depending on how much the player knows about getting new critters.

    The original Watabou reappears and offers to take us back to GreatTree, and we gladly oblige.

    There are more gates in DWM and even a new fight at the arena, but the main quest is over.

    One no-reload low-grinding run of Dragon Warrior Monsters, complete.
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