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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"

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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited August 2016
    For those who aren't aware, @BelgarathMTH also has a minimal reload run thread at
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/51150/raising-charname-minimal-reload-thread-bg1-sod-bg2-spoilers#latest
    If you lose a run you were really enjoying, please consider continuing it as a minimal reload run.
    Post edited by semiticgoddess on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @ussnorway: Do you fight Taquee before or after Khan Zahraa? If you fight Taquee first, I don't think he ever teleports away--or at least, you can box him before he turns hostile and prevent him from running. Khan Zahraa never teleports away, though Fafiraah always will vanish when KZ dies.
  • ussnorwayussnorway Member Posts: 341
    edited August 2016

    @ussnorway: Do you fight Taquee before or after Khan Zahraa? If you fight Taquee first, I don't think he ever teleports away--or at least, you can box him before he turns hostile and prevent him from running. Khan Zahraa never teleports away, though Fafiraah always will vanish when KZ dies.

    • I surround the guard with all but one of my characters and hit him as hard as possible
    • Before the end of that round i.e, before the two inside the tent turn hostile I jump to my guy inside and hand in the tiger head, there by getting the full quest rewards of experience and the +2 sword


    • Now you have to the end of this round to finish killing the guard before he teleports out. If you manage it then you get the bottle as well as other quest rewards with no reaction penalty but even if you can't kill him then he just leaves with the bottle... No harm no foul.
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,857
    ussnorway said:

    @ussnorway: Do you fight Taquee before or after Khan Zahraa? If you fight Taquee first, I don't think he ever teleports away--or at least, you can box him before he turns hostile and prevent him from running. Khan Zahraa never teleports away, though Fafiraah always will vanish when KZ dies.

    • I surround the guard with all but one of my characters and hit him as hard as possible
    • Before the end of that round i.e, before the two inside the tent turn hostile I jump to my guy inside and hand in the tiger head, there by getting the full quest rewards of experience and the +2 sword


    • Now you have to the end of this round to finish killing the guard before he teleports out. If you manage it then you get the bottle as well as other quest rewards with no reaction penalty but even if you can't kill him then he just leaves with the bottle... No harm no foul.
    Not sure what bottle you are talking about. I've always just gone inside with the head.
  • Serg_BlackStriderSerg_BlackStrider Member Posts: 210
    edited August 2016


    Not sure what bottle you are talking about. I've always just gone inside with the head.

    Efreeti bottle, which can summon an Efreeti once per day for up to ten rounds. You can either pickpocket it or grab from the corpse.

  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 945
    edited August 2016
    Goibniu, human paladin, update 12

    Durlag's Tower - a tough place for my randomized party. Enemies like skeleton warriors, greater doppelgangers or flesh golems kill most members of my party within seconds, unless the right buffs/potions are used, so once again I have to summon skeletons whenever I can. Luna or Goibniu can tank a little bit, but it's risky and not a great plan in general. I have to be very careful.

    Helios started disarming various traps while invisbile, so they won't get in the way while fighting. The first tougher battle was against the three greater doppelgangers near the library - an encounter that ended one of my previous randomized party challenges.

    I managed to lure the doppelgangers down to the library one by one into waiting skeletons, ranged weapon users with +2 ammunition and magic missle spells by Owain:



    Amazingly, I managed to keep at least some skeletons alive for almost the entire level, and thus the party was able to progress carefully, but relatively quickly. However, I decided to go outside to rest before fighting the 4 sin personifications. I prepared with the usual buffs, plus heroism potions for the three fighters and one of my many giant strength potions for Goibniu (I have enough of those that one of them is active pretty much all the time by now, making Goibniu a passable melee fighter - only his hp are still quite low).

    Shortly after starting the battle and moving to a better position, Anapa was dire charmed. I thought this spell would hit one of the skeletons instead - I was sure Anapa wasn't being targeted, otherwise I would've used a potion of clarity. Oh well:



    Goibniu retreated, knowing how much damage Anapa can deal. A good plan, as it turned out, because the next spell, skull trap, killed Anapa instantly - it also destroyed most of the skeletons and heavily wounded the enemies themselves:



    The party eventually managed to kill most enemies with their ranged weapons, though I had no choice but to engange the final opponent in melee combat;



    Luckily, there are enough healing potions in Durlag's Tower, so I used them liberally. The battle was won, and the party returned to Nashkell, resurrecting Anapa, resting and returning to the tower.

    Level 2: A little bit easier, since magic missle spells and ranged weapons are enough to deal with the various doppelgangers around there, though I once again had to use some healing potions. Also, this was propably my first time not accidentally triggering any traps in this level. I ended up not having to use skeletons and buffs at all, so I could save them all for the dwarven doom guard fight at the end. Using some more strength potion for my fighters helped as well, since I had to engage in melee combat. Anapa is really useful in situations like this if he doesn't get targeted. Luckily, the doom guards mostly attacked skeletons, so they stood no chance:



    After resting, the party entered the next level. I started with the western path and encountered no trouble there. The middle path was next - some remaining protection from undead scrolls did all the work:



    The eastern path did cost me all five skeletons, but was eventually cleared.

    Now, the elemental rooms - the fission slime was killed with Luna's wand of the heavens, the air room was a matter of simple combat. For the ice room, I had Goibniu use a potion and scroll to make him immune to frost damage, so he simply stood there, immune to his foes:



    Now, before entering the fire room, I prepared for the chessboard. Aside from the usual buffs, I had everyone use potions and scrolls to make my entire party immune to both lightning and fire damage - so I could move around the chessboard freely and spam fireballs via potions, necklaces, spells and wands.

    This is basically the strategy: Just start spamming all available fireball charges on everything, since I won't really need them later:



    Time for the final level!

    The spider room was cleared with the help of skeletons:



    For the southern area, everyone drank a potion of freedom - I also used some more giant strength potions, and I had to use lots and lots of healing potions (more than in every other area). Still, there was no real danger for my party:



    With Greal's death, only the demon knight was left. My potion choices mostly served to maximize ranged damage, so I used heroism for the fighters once again, and some more potions of agilty. Luna also summoned skeletons upon entering the area, sending them to the enemy first, so he would focus his spells on them.

    The demon knight immediately used dispel magic, only hitting Anapa, who was, of course, in melee range. I realized that his second spell, a devastating fireball, was targeted at the half-orc kensai as well, so I quickly equipped him with my two fire resistance rings and moved him away from the party and the skeletons:



    Anapa returned to melee combat, but was hit with a symbol: stun - however, Goibniu got some good hits in, using arrows of dispelling:



    And before the demon knight could even hit the stunned Anapa, he was slain by the party!

    Durlag's Tower is done, and I'll save the return to Ulgoth's Beard for the next post.

    Enuhal
  • ussnorwayussnorway Member Posts: 341
    edited August 2016
     Los1 -ds5,    

    Vampires are people too;
     
    Hear text as mp3,

    We returned to the slums too find two groups wanting to be our pals... Valygar unlocked his uncles magic spear and we told him to wait for us inside as we pop back to the inn.





    I swapped Mazzy out for Anomen, after she won a pit fight (with potion) then agreed to help two other girls with their problems... One is a long ways off but the other is just inside the grave yard so Hexxat is first.

    The tomb has some minor shadows + one dangerous vampire but I have a sharman in the group so domination isn't a concern... The extra Cleric was useful against undead but he grates and has started hitting on me so no thanks.

    P.s, Bodhi makes the better offer so Vamps it is.
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059


    ....
    In IWD2, there is no True Seeing spell, and the only thing that can remove Improved Invisibility is Invisibility Purge, which Non-Detection blocks, unlike in BG. And since the only magic attack in the game is Dispel Magic, which offers a Will save, which enemy spellcasters will easily make, and since Dispel Magic is an abjuration spell, there's no Spell Focus feat to improve it. So Improved Invisibility and Non-Detection are sort of unbeatable, which is why so many mages in Tactics use them.
    ....

    Wait. Hold on. This is very interesting:
    Do the mages in your IWD2 setup actually do all this? I thought IWD2 did not have a version of Tactics available, no? If so I need to polish up and have another go at IWD2 -- my favorite dungeon crawl.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768

    Sans teleports away with CTRL-J, since he only has 1 HP, but still gets hit by some spell. Since he survives the thing without having any electricity resistance at all, I'm guessing the spell is designed to be nonlethal.

    I wonder if IWD2 also has the rule that you can't be one-shotted at level 1 like in BG1.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited August 2016
    Underdale: Frisk, Chara, and Asriel in IWD2

    A new chapter begins, with another well-written diary entry by our narrator, Maralie.

    She has such a pretty voice. And she has a remarkably vivid script considering how hack-and-slash IWD2 is. The writing in IWD2 is surprisingly strong.

    The Wandering Village is next, followed by a tedious Lost Woods-style maze in the Fell Woods. One of my mods adds some special items for good-aligned rangers--probably because rangers are generally considered the weakest class in IWD2. The mod introduces the relevant merchant in a strange way, though.

    He really, really likes rangers. Wink, wink. If you're a ranger, he'll sell you this:

    It's erroneously set to sell for 1 gold and crashes when we buy it, so I have to console it in. Frisk will have to take a level in ranger to use it. Same goes for a ranger-only bow that adds the user's Strength bonus to damage rolls. We also purchase the Avarine Decanter from Nym and free the djinni.

    He gives us some nice items, including the Indomitable Bands, which give +5 to generic AC and 10 +2 damage reduction, which means items of +1 enchantment and lower deal 10 less damage to the wearer.

    Chara has hit druid level 13 and has a new shapeshifting form, even stronger than any of the others: a white half-dragon. It comes with a humongous sword and a tiny bikini. As it should.

    I still don't remember why we need to get through the Fell Woods or where we're trying to go. It has something to do with the Underdark. It doesn't really matter if you don't know what's going on; IWD2 puts you on a straight route anyway. Suoma won't let us progress until we save the local children, who have been going missing. Time to investigate!

    The investigation suddenly ends. As a paladin, Asriel can sense evil, and Limha just exudes it.


    Limha tells us that she turned the local children into small furry animals, so their parents would hunt and kill them. She also tells us that killing her will undo the curse. Idiot.

    Limha comes very well-prepared for this fight.

    Freedom of Movement once again blocks a hostile Chromatic Orb, which can otherwise be fatal. Limha is a little hard to hit right now, so I turn our attention to clearing up the trolls.



    Limha surprises us with one of my favorite spells.

    Then I find something very special.

    Chara's half-dragon form is immune to stun! The one immunity we can't find anywhere else. Chara cuts Limha to pieces.


    Giant horns. Bat wings. Alabaster skin. A six-foot-long, serrated sword. And a teeny tiny bikini. The half-dragon form has it all.

    Frisk says there's an impressive wyrm in the party. Chara says hands off the merchandise.

    When flirting with Chara fails, Frisk asks for a private "lesson" with Kanno the Bowyer.

    We get a special book as a souvenir, but a bug prevents Frisk from using it--the description doesn't list any race or class restrictions. We use the potion swap glitch to activate it instead, but all it does is produce a couple of items that only elves and half-elves can use.

    A new murder mystery crops up. Naturally, the solution is to kill a bunch of Will o' Wisps so a ghost will tell us where to find the victim's restless spirit.

    We meet some skeletons in the woods, but none of them gives us any hot dogs or spaghetti. Disappointing.

    After a lot of wandering, we complete the questline, and Isair and Madae, the antagonists of IWD2, stop by to lecture us. They're pretty spooky.

    Isair and Madae could have been excellent characters given their backstory, but I always found them to be obnoxious and unlikeable. They scoff and sneer and mock, coming off more as snotty bullies than proper villains.



    It's a petty, irritating, condescending kind of evil. Imagine if Voldemort, fighting Harry Potter at the end of Goblet of Fire, said that Harry's glasses looked stupid. It would just seem childish, and that's how Isair and Madae often sound.

    We fight some zombies, then talk to Suoma to open up the next fight, then fight some trees, and finally enter the next area, where there will be more fighting. That's IWD2 for you.

    Conceptually speaking, a no-reload IWD2 run is basically the polar opposite of Undertale. Undertale was all about nonviolent solutions, and reloading was a critical plot point.

    Whatever. This is fun, and that's the important thing.

    Turning into sexy dragon ladies and fighting with giant swords in tiny bikinis fills us with determination.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Ygramul said:


    ....
    In IWD2, there is no True Seeing spell, and the only thing that can remove Improved Invisibility is Invisibility Purge, which Non-Detection blocks, unlike in BG. And since the only magic attack in the game is Dispel Magic, which offers a Will save, which enemy spellcasters will easily make, and since Dispel Magic is an abjuration spell, there's no Spell Focus feat to improve it. So Improved Invisibility and Non-Detection are sort of unbeatable, which is why so many mages in Tactics use them.
    ....

    Wait. Hold on. This is very interesting:
    Do the mages in your IWD2 setup actually do all this? I thought IWD2 did not have a version of Tactics available, no? If so I need to polish up and have another go at IWD2 -- my favorite dungeon crawl.

    IWD2 does have a Tactics mod. It's just called IWD2Tactics. I don't remember exactly which things in my install come from Tactics, but I do know Tactics prevents bard songs from stacking, improves enemy AI, and cranks up the difficulty on a lot of big fights. Once you start seeing level 8 and higher mages, almost all of them use Improved Invisibility, and I've struggled to reveal them with divination magic--I think many use Non-Detection, but some might be innately immune. Plus, spell resistance can block Invisibility Purge.

    The Ease of Use mod is responsible for the druid shapeshifts I've been using; it also gives druids some additional spells like Stoneskin and Sunfire.
    BillyYank said:

    Sans teleports away with CTRL-J, since he only has 1 HP, but still gets hit by some spell. Since he survives the thing without having any electricity resistance at all, I'm guessing the spell is designed to be nonlethal.

    I wonder if IWD2 also has the rule that you can't be one-shotted at level 1 like in BG1.
    I just tested it. Confirmed. Any level 1 character with 1 HP is immune to all damage. It even works if you only have 1 HP due to energy drain. Only instant death magic and energy drain can kill such a character.
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Thanks, @semiticgod

    I will have to try this setup with IWD2 sometime.
  • OtherguyOtherguy Member Posts: 157
    edited August 2016
    Update on Dice the FMT, him Aerie, Jaheira and Minsc spent the first rest in Waukeens Promenade.

    Upon waking up they were insulted and attacked by an evil dwarf and his crew. No real pre-buffs used and our very first full plate as a suitable reward.

    Trademeet > invis, picking up Belm, killing the last druids for Gnasher, having Jaheira killing Faldorn with resist fear pre-buff, almost died from creeping doom even so since Faldorn used a couple of super healing potions.

    Killed the genies since I really hate those guys.

    When leaving town Rasaad begs me to help him, can't say no to killing evil cultists can we?

    At the amphitheater we actually manage to answer correctly and no monks needlessly lost their lives! At the mercenary company SE at that map we tell them Hojar should get the belt which makes the guy with the mirror image ring hostile. I just don't want to grab the belt for myself even though the loot is very good since that is clearly the evil option and Dice would never do that.

    Everyone is fatigued once we actually reach the big bad temple, still figured we can meet the assault after all the tests. And yes we could, surprisingly easy considering we are a melee heavy party and everyone was fatigued.

    De'Arnise > Resting where I picked up Nalia since everyone is BADLY fatigued and only a few spells left, also feels it breaks my run if I need to go outside to rest after clearing a part of the castle. Everything in the castle is very easy, the charmed guard even fails his save vs dominate after a doom.

    Tor'gal is a very tricky beast. I pre-buff with pretty much everything I've got landing my AC vs evil piercing attacks at around -15 to -20 with Jaheira and Dice, my FMT sitting pretty at around -5 or so in all saves vs evil, Jaheira has confusion immunity from shield and Minsc from Lilarcor, all are immune to fear due to buff. Run in with the entire party hasted and first round cast web x 2 and cloudkill from wand after the talk, next round 2 x cloudkill and a fireball. The experience gains tells me he had quite a few friends of his own. The beatdown of Tor'gal goes way smoother than usual due to 3 strong melee characters with decent weapons (none wielding FoA though), great AC and Tor'gal himself failing a save vs slow (casted twice) after doom, he still managed to hit Minsc lowering his strength from 21 to around 15 or so. After that Minsc joined Aerie and Nalia in killing the Yuanti Mages and between his 4 APR with longbow, Nalias 4 with Tuigan and Aeries 5 with MMM they fell in short order.

    Now to go help Neera and reunite Wilson with his dearest of friends.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited August 2016
    Underdale: Frisk, Chara, and Asriel in IWD2

    There's a big fight with Snow Trolls and barbarians, but it's not very interesting. Remorhaz form and Sexy Dragon Lady form let Chara defeat the enemy almost single-handedly.

    We also fight a white dragon. Chara hacks it to pieces as well.


    I forgot to buy rope from Tahvo the Huntmaster, so I have to trek back to the Wandering Village before I can enter the Underdark. There's a short tunnel here that's absolutely crawling with Hook Horrors that will ruthlessly flank you. Frisk sends them into disarray with Chaos and helps Asriel and Chara cut them down with our new Mordenkainen's Sword spell.


    Mordenkainen's Sword actually deals remarkable damage (3d6+3!) and has a +1 attack bonus per caster level, making it strike more or less without fail. To my disappointment, however, Tenser's Transformation doesn't seem to add attacks when it improves Frisk's attack bonus (I thought it did). Frisk is better off wielding Bloody Wroth despite their lack of proficiency with bastard swords, since Bloody Wroth's +8 to Strength and Constitution is better for their carrying capacity and HP, and does not prevent spellcasting.

    When the Hook Horrors start to overwhelm us, Frisk stuns them with Gedlee's Electric Loop and roasts them with Sunfire.



    When those spells run low, Frisk has even more options, as they can restore Chara's defenses and Slow the enemy.


    There are some troublesome Ochre Jellies here that can only be defeated, I understand, by chain-casting damage spells. Frisk delivers.

    We've also got some duergar slavers to deal with. You can get past them without violence, but we can't tolerate seeing our fellow critters enslaved.

    Everyone, including the slaves, turns hostile. I assume this melee-heavy fight will be straightforward, but then I see the enemy can stun us.

    I switch Chara to Sexy Dragon Lady form. The enemy's electrical bolts will still damage them, but Chara will be immune to stun and most of their normal attacks.

    Frisk disables the enemy to grant us a reprieve from the Bolts of Stunning +1, but when they move in to flood the area with fire, a stray bolt stuns them.


    Asriel hurries over to cast Sanctuary. Problem solved.

    Asriel casts Recitation, but the buff doesn't really matter. Our damage output is too high for the enemy to handle anyway, and Asriel avoids getting stunned.


    We come across a spectre, who had been tortured to death...

    ...but he's too out of his mind to be reasoned with. We have to put him down.

    On the way out, we run into Harshom, a Luskan affiliate of Isair and Madae, who answers some important questions about his war-bears.

    We ask him what he means by that, but there's no option to flirt our way out of this fight.

    Harshom is immune to various disablers, as a few bosses are, but his goons are not. Chaos is unstoppable. The save DC is 31.

    We focus on the mages first, using Slow to cement our advantage, and finally turn on Harshom. Asriel chunks him.


    It seems he forgot to cast Improved Invisibility.

    A new chapter begins. The Black Raven Monastery stands guard over the Underdark exit, though I still don't know where we're supposed to go. A flock of wyverns greets us, but does not attack.

    You can steal one of their eggs for later use, but we don't have the right classes or stats to fully exploit it. No omelettes for us.

    Chowing down on Iron Rations instead of hurting friendly animals fills us with determination.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Corey_Russell: That's rough.

    Sometimes I progress normally after party members get chunked, but often I like to create new characters to replace them. You get the character back, but it won't have as much XP as the rest of the party (in one run, I lost millions of XP due to repeated chunkings). This means that the chunking is still meaningful, but does not permanently rob the player of a likeable character, a loss that can make the game less fun.

    Rarely, I will import from a previously exported character--also legal, though it makes the chunking less crippling--but only if I've made that decision before the chunking actually occurred.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Power Attack is deadly. Every hit in the next 12 seconds forces a save vs. death at -4 or the target gets stunned for 12 seconds.

    Smite is even worse. The stun effect in the first round offers no save at all. Immunity to stun is the only thing that will block it.
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