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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification

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  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    edited February 2018
    Hhmmmm... thanks for these words @histamiini... as i put a lot of time in it.
    I will reload it to the OP soon until we have - maybe - found something "better". :D

    The border between "too easy" and "too restricting" is a real close one... not easy, not easy... ;)

    histamiini
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,438

    Hah, i got THE idea: What about playing with @Grond0 rules?

    What are your personal rule settings @Grond0? So far i can remember:

    - no healing potions
    - no xp farming
    - no max HP at levelup
    - always take maximum risk (*cough*)

    Have i forgot something? ;)

    That's most of my standard ones. I don't allow recruitment of NPCs in a solo run, but you can kill them anyway to get their equipment. I also ban any item-based healing, not just potions (so those relying on Durlag's Goblet might get a bit of a shock ;)). Also no antidote potions, which means you need to take greater care around spiders (or just do what I do and die in torment ...).

    I agree the Staff of Magi and WoMS could be deleted without too much problem as they mainly benefit mages, who have plenty of options anyway.

    I'm not sure about banning quick slot items. I don't have much experience of that tactic and none at all of Ascension, so I'm not sure to what extent it would affect things in this challenge.

    Harpagornishistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    edited February 2018
    Okay, the @Grond0 challenge is noted for the future! For now i reloaded the Blades & Stars Challenge as it gives the players a lot of freedom.

    I am thinking about adding more difficulty levels (aka 2,4,6,8 and 10 stars) - maybe after some further testing.

    But is there really any class that could beat the Chosen One using no-reload? The Totemic Druid is for sure a candidate - at least up to Sendai and Abazigal. But thats something for later. For now i am not sure if i should suffer with the Crusader (3 stars) or just the Knight (5 stars). At the end both should be "quite difficult" without reloads - we will see... ;)

    EDIT: I am thinking about adding "Potions" to the free items granted by the stars as most players will pick them anyway. Good idea?

    histamiini
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,438
    It would seem reasonable to me. As potions are more of a boost to pure fighter classes, that would help to level the playing field a bit with mage duals and multis - and it's not like no-reload would ever be simple even with full equipment ;).

    semiticgodArctodusHarpagornishistamiini
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,382
    The problem with very broad restrictions is that they forbid balanced options as well as overpowered options. The problem with limiting items to a specific number is that it just encourages people to cling to the overpowered stuff and neglect the balanced stuff even more.

    Allowing only a single magical item just means you're using Algernon's Cloak. Banning all magical items just means you're using nothing. Banning Wizard Slayer-forbidden items removes even normal items like the Cloak of Protection +1.

    It might be better to stick to specific restrictions, like "no Algernon's Cloak/Nymph Cloak for BG1," "no Arrows of Detonation/Dispelling for SoD," "no speed weapons for BG2," or "no Wish spells for ToB." That way you could just strike down the overpowered stuff while still being able to use normal options.

    HarpagornisGrond0histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    Kayla passed the test. Semaj took 20, Tazok 34 and Diarmid 38 WoF hits, Angelo dispelled twice with arrows and double WoMS was enough for him, Skeleton Wariors WoMS'd. Hit Sarevok 100 times with WoF but it still wasn't enough, I tried Greater Malison but all the hits were still only half damage, he was left with 89 hp. Single hasted WoMS was enough for him though.

    Invisibility, WoMS opened the way and Potros surrendered. PfU and Invisibility got me to Korlasz, Greenstone Amulet, WoMS, Haste, Speed, Invisibility, Offensive Spin and after dispelling Korlasz it took 2 hits from Acid arrows make her surrender. Looted the place, ascended level 11.

    Selling all the loot netted 110k gold, and after bying Sorcerous Sundries and Belegram out, I was still left 30k. Couple quick chapters next, and I don't even have to bother with the Dwarfs because I can't use the Robe of Aptitude anyway. Though I'll have to find Purification Stone for head gear and Cloak of Gargoyle to stop critical damage, so that's something different this time.

    StummvonBordwehrGrond0Arctodus
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    Kayla sang the bard song to the Menhir's without a problem, and then I hid behind the tent for the parlay, ignored Dwarves completely, well that was quick chapter.

    Morentherene daggered, Ziatar took 26 hits from WoF, WoMS, Speed, Clarity, Greenstone Amulet, Haste and activated Neothelid and quickly shut the door from outside, Neothelid appeared for the smacking feast, my WoMS got confused quickly but no worries, Kayla smacked him down taking 6 times the Goblet. Akanna's Servants were lured with WoF outside the room and hasted WoMS then killed Akanna. Helped the Dragon for the first head gear in the game, and then surrendered the fort. Bridge activated invisible and then Greater Fire Elemental lured to the camp, and I tanked it with 7 Goblets, because nobody else was doing any damage to it.

    I'm now 80k from the max level of 12, so I don't probably even have to do anything extra than the normal guests here on to reach it.

    ArctodusStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    Chapter 10, I like how Bard has many different lines to different situations. Did all the interesting guests for items, finally was able to finish the Waisahb guest because I could pickpocket a Crusader Recruit. And Algernon's cloak again found its use, when it charmed Strunik and Therli as a food for the Ettin Ghost, which netted me the Purification Stone and Cloak of Gargoyle. Hit max level of 12. Ran to Daeros and back invisible, activating the Crusader Attacks which are next in line.

    Preparing to the attacks I noticed that Animate Dead skelis still aren't the 7HD (lv11) versions, even when my level is 12, not even when I use Cloak of Arcana to get caster level +1. Anyone know why is this?

    Interestingly Elven Chain Mail (with Spirit Armor) is the best armor for Bard vs. Bel, because it gives -2 slashing modifier, and still allows the use of Protection items.

    Post edited by histamiini on
    ArctodusStummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    Crusader Attacks, Troll wave 20 Skull Traps and 3 Detonators, done. Mage wave PfM, 2x PfF, Clarity, Speed, 4 pre Webs, 2 pre Cloudkills, 5 skelis backline, Soft Feet. Started with 2x Web sequencer, Offensive Spin and then 17 Detonators finished them off. Fighter wave, 4 pre Webs, 2 pre Cloudkills. Started again with 2x Web sequencer, Offensive Spin and then 18 Detonators finished them off. Last wave done with 100 acid arrows or so, didn't need Durlag's Goblet once, and still have 54 Detonators left.

    Ashatiel dispelled and then shot down with acid arrows. I think I found the perfect tactic so you don't have to fight at the Avernus bridge. Invisibility, lure everybody to the exit, run to Thrix and activate next phase, run out of the level, back and run to Thrix and activate him again. This will open the door without bothering to fight anybody.

    Bel is next on the menu. Because I don't have Spell Sequencer, I've to use the Enchanted Weapon as a scroll through PfM. It should last a Turn longer than with a mage, but better caster level didn't work with Animate Dead, so I don't know.

    ArctodusStummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    Belhifet, PfM, Violet, 2x PfF, Agility, Fortitude, 2x Mind Focusing, Spirit Armor, Speed, Clarity, Blur, Go at 11 rounds.

    During the waves I took 14 Power Potions, and it took exactly 60 rounds again to get to the last phase. There I used Stoneskin, Enchanted Weapon, Blur, Clarity and Improved Invisibility. Started fight after the Dispel with Strength sequencer. And I noticed again the Power Potion bug, that takes hp buffs off when one potion ends, this was the second time this has happened to me, so I suspect that using one Heroism Potion will prevent the bug, because in the last C/M run I couldn't take Heroism potions either?


    Alternated between Durlag's Goblet and Offensive Stance, to get 3 apr, and Bel went down before my third and last Stance ended, which means about 12 rounds or so smacking time, then I shot Heprenaan casually with acid arrows when he was chasing after WoMS, which he himself had Feared. :D

    ArctodusHarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    edited February 2018
    Clean execution @histamiini that should remind you once more that the "normal" SCS+LoB no-reload challenge is far beneath your skill level. In the futute anything above the new "Favored of Bhaal" difficulty will not be acceepted. o:)

    That was the keyword!!

    The Blades & Stars Challenge got a rework so potions will now be available for anyone which will save you another star.

    The new destiny levels are:

    Homunculus --------- 9 Stars
    Acolyte ------------- 8 Stars
    Bandit Captain ------- 7 Stars
    Crusader ------------ 6 Stars
    Half Dragon --------- 5 Stars
    Doomsayer ---------- 4 Stars
    Archimandrite ------- 3 Stars
    Archmage ----------- 2 Stars
    Favored of Bhaal ------ 1 Star
    Chosen One --------- 0 Star


    This should give each player even more options and the Blades & Stars Inn has assured me that anyone beating this challenge without reloads using the "Chosen One" will recieve 500.000 gold. :D

    The categories are more or less the same:

    FREE Weapons + Protection Scrolls + Potions
    * Amulets & Belts
    * Armor
    * Boots & Gauntlets
    * Cloak
    * Helmet
    * Left Ring
    * Right Ring
    * Mage Scrolls
    * Shields
    * Wands

    If i get some time i will start a new run in the next days even though i will most probably not go for the Chosen One this time. But maybe its the right playground for @histamiini or big bad @Grond0 who likes to suffer eternally. ;)

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    @Harpagornis Looks good, I think I'll start one when I get tired of Kayla.

    Just ascended from Irenicus Dungeon, mostly skipped everything with invisibility except the Mephit area was dealt with Speed, Spirit Armor, Blur, PfE and Improved Invisibility, and luring the Mephits to the to the other room. Bought Scimitar +1, because in EET normal weapons have tendency to break. Also figured out that Gauth xp-loop is banned from me, at least before getting UAI so the game will be more interesting.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    @Harpagornis You know thieves, and I've never had thieves HLA's. What's your opinion what should I take? I looked them up a little and these are good I think,

    Use Any Item, of course
    Enhanced Bard Son, which affects summons correct?
    Alchemy, perhaps for unlimited speed potions, although Improved Haste makes it pretty pointless

    and then should I take 14 Spike Traps, or are the Time Stop traps any good, because I can use Time Stop from Sim? Rest of them seem pretty meh.

    Victor_Creed_SFVHarpagornis
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 588
    @histamiini
    I have the same version as You 2.3.67.3
    My install is relativelY freSh but that might still mean it's a year old or smth :P.
    Maybe I just rested in the wrong place, but I tried several:
    The first Gauth spawn at the entrance, all the gauth/Beholder spawns elsewhere in the lair....

    histamiiniHarpagornis
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited February 2018
    @Victor_Creed_SFV Strange, I've always used the spot where the first Gauth is when you come from the undead bridge. Did you try resting many times, sometimes it can take like 10 times before they appear.

    Victor_Creed_SFVHarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 588
    edited February 2018

    @Victor_Creed_SFV Strange, I've always used the spot where the first Gauth is when you come from the undead bridge. Did you try resting many times, sometimes it can take like 10 times before they appear.

    I tried at least 5 times, probably closer to 10, but I did not know it actuallY takes that long for them to appear or I would have tried more often and counted.

    @Harpagornis You know thieves, and I've never had thieves HLA's. What's your opinion what should I take? I looked them up a little and these are good I think,

    Use Any Item, of course
    Enhanced Bard Son, which affects summons correct?
    Alchemy, perhaps for unlimited speed potions, although Improved Haste makes it pretty pointless

    and then should I take 14 Spike Traps, or are the Time Stop traps any good, because I can use Time Stop from Sim? Rest of them seem pretty meh.

    You can use Bard Song with Mislead, which leads to super cheese.
    Mislead at the start of an area (it even used to work outside of doors like at kangaxx for example)
    and let the clone sing Bard Song.
    If the enemies can't see thru Invis the usual Mislead cheese applies on top of having the bard song boost, enemies can't see you even tho you're attacking them.

    Spike Traps are super cheesy and for the most part better than Time Stop Traps, Time Traps are awesome, but Spike is just that much better.
    (I would still picke 1 or 2 Time Stop because there might be situations where you'd rather want that instead of raw damage.)

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 588
    edited February 2018
    My shapeshifter finally regained her druid levels and something strange happened.
    After I got fighter level 16 I finally went to the Druid Grove and killed the evil would be Great Druid.
    The Ring of Improved Invisibility is great here, cause she can't target you with Insects even after initiating the dialogue and losing regular invis.
    Right after I challenged the other Great Druid to get the title for myself and ofc the fight is much easier since you get to keep your items, in my case tokens hue.

    But then something unexpected happened on the statscreen, the shapeshifter iss till called shapeshifter, but my Fighter part is now called Great Druid. oO
    How this will affect leveling I have no clue, will my druid spells improve with my fighter elvels?
    Will I get Fighter HLAs?

    Here's a lil vid of me beating on Firkraag and going over more detailed stuff about the druid and showing which quests I had to do to get to Shape15/Fighter16

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehrGrond0Harpagornis
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,382
    @Victor_Creed_SFV: The "Great Druid" title is cosmetic; it won't affect anything.

    Victor_Creed_SFVStummvonBordwehr
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,438
    Just looking at your rules @Harpagornis what happens to miscellaneous items - should they not form their own category?

    With the revision to the rules being a Chosen One looks easy enough (I know - looks can be deceiving :D), so I think I'll give another start for Vent the berserker (destined to dual to mage). This time I'll only aim to get him up to level 7 so that he can regain fighter abilities in BG1.

    HarpagornisVictor_Creed_SFVStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    edited February 2018
    Misc Items are not named or categorized as they are available for everyone @Grond0. But you are right: We could create another category but this would force (nearly) any class to put them anyway to get at least Durlags Goblet.... hhmmm....

    Wait... what? You are playing the Chosen One.... saying that it looks easy... and dual to mage... without being able to use any mage scrolls? You made my day @Grond0!! B)

    Gaia moved on sneaking through the Nashkel Mines charming and feeding Mulahey while using Marl to punch down Tranzig. Bandit Camp was quite funny as she managed to charm Raemon so no talking would trigger. Saved us another invisibility potion - hah. Taurgosz on the otheer hand disappeared after taking down Venkt for no reason. However: With charm and invisibility things are running really smoothly - lets go for the Cloakwood soon! ;)

    EDIT: The Tasloi got held and burned down by lightning to grab Whispers of Silence while Lamalha got charmed and killed by her friends for the very first potion of power. Things start to get rolling - no? :D

    EDIT2: Davaeorn went down pretty fast after the Nymphs distracted the Battle Horrors and the guard smacked down the poor mage. Got a second potion of power from Genthore whow was quickly feeded to the guards.

    Post edited by Harpagornis on
    Victor_Creed_SFVStummvonBordwehr
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,438
    edited February 2018
    I just had half an hour before bed - time for Vent to shoot down Shoal, kill some fishermen, return a bowl to Tenya, do a few jobs on the way to Nashkel to buy a PfP scroll. He's just killed the southern group of basilisks to get up to level 5.

    Incidentally, I was assuming that even though he can't use mage scrolls, Vent could still learn spells. If that's not the case then that would obviously make being a Chosen One impossible for a mage - perhaps though that is your intention Harpagornis ;) ...

    Edit: I see from your previous post that was indeed your intention - looks like Vent will have to be satisfied with being a Favored of Bhaal then B).

    HarpagornisVictor_Creed_SFVStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    edited February 2018
    Grond0 said:

    Incidentally, I was assuming that even though he can't use mage scrolls, Vent could still learn spells. If that's not the case then that would obviously make being a Chosen One impossible for a mage - perhaps though that is your intention Harpagornis ;) ...

    You got it @Grond0! Mages will NEVER EVER be the Chosen One... >:)

    Grond0Victor_Creed_SFV
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 588

    @Victor_Creed_SFV: The "Great Druid" title is cosmetic; it won't affect anything.

    Nice to know, I really want Crit Strike and Whirlwind. >:)

    Grond0 said:

    Incidentally, I was assuming that even though he can't use mage scrolls, Vent could still learn spells. If that's not the case then that would obviously make being a Chosen One impossible for a mage - perhaps though that is your intention Harpagornis ;) ...

    You got it @Grond0! Mages will NEVER EVER be the Chosen One... >:)
    Imagine Sorcerers could wear helmets :tongue:

    Harpagornis
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    Would a more-or-less naked Sorcerer without SR but with only helmets have a chance against Big B? Thats maybe something for @histamiini but i have my doughts @Victor_Creed_SFV. :D

    I would write more about Gaia but she is destroying the "Favored of Bhaal" difficulty with just charming and sneaking so far. The city was skipped to get quickly back to Candlekeep where the Ogre Mages got tricked with invisibility. The rest was buffing up and grabbing the Tomes before sneaking out again.

    Thanks to Wisdom 21 she now got a second level 5 spell which should be helpful against the Palace Ambush. But first it will be time to get Durlags Goblet once more. Or even better: Lets get some sleep. Tireness is not a good guide in no-reload-runs. :D

    Victor_Creed_SFVStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,382
    How would a single-classed mage kill Belhifet at all? According to my calculations, a single-classed mage would need hundreds of rounds to kill Belhifet with a +3 staff or dagger, and thousands of rounds to kill him with a sling, and over 200 charges from the Wand of Frost to kill him even if you kept his MR at zero. If you used Fire Shield, he'd need to take over 360 hits, which warrants 7 castings of Fire Shield Blue and 60 castings of Mirror Image and/or Stoneskin.

    Victor_Creed_SFVHarpagornis
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 588

    Would a more-or-less naked Sorcerer without SR but with only helmets have a chance against Big B? Thats maybe something for @histamiini but i have my doughts @Victor_Creed_SFV. :D

    I would write more about Gaia but she is destroying the "Favored of Bhaal" difficulty with just charming and sneaking so far. The city was skipped to get quickly back to Candlekeep where the Ogre Mages got tricked with invisibility. The rest was buffing up and grabbing the Tomes before sneaking out again.

    Thanks to Wisdom 21 she now got a second level 5 spell which should be helpful against the Palace Ambush. But first it will be time to get Durlags Goblet once more. Or even better: Lets get some sleep. Tireness is not a good guide in no-reload-runs. :D

    I don't think the strength of Sorcerers comes too much from wearing clothes. :tongue:
    Can't say about Big B, but the main reason I never tried it was no helmets, I even tried using RR stones but they don't protect from crits. :(

    Harpagornis
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