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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification

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  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,295
    edited April 2019
    @semiticgod Ziatar and her mages are trivial because they can be burned with OGL out of sight. Akanna could be slightly harder, as you play with the saving throw fix, charming her is harder, or maybe imbossible? I've used mostly that tactic against her in 2.5, and fed her to Neothelid. But luring the couple Aerial Servants away from the room and shutting the door should make the fight easier, it was the usual tactic, some dispel arrows and so on.

    I think there are four rounds after the last fight ends in the lift, and then one in the battlefield when you need to escape the dispel. So before giving the killing blow, you should time the buffs accordingly. You can prebuff against Violet Potion dex penalty with Mind Focus potions, 8 of those at the beginning should keep your dex at 25. So only one round needed for Potion of Fortitude after it.

    Yeah tanking is probably the best bet, depending how many Champion's Strengths you've you could do that twice with buffing in invisibility between, and using Storm potion for the second tank.

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 24
    Hello!

    Arno, the generalist mage has cleared the Werewolf Island, Ice Island, Durlag's Tower and Ulgoth's Beard.

    I'm very surprise that avoiding the battlechess game was so easy like cast an invisibility spell. The battle with Aec'Letec required a lot of charges of my Wand of Paralization, but once it worked i could beat him with a couple of ogres of the Wand of Summoning.

    Next trip: return to history at Baldur's Gate.

    See you soon!

    StummvonBordwehrGrond0Mr_SaltyHarpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    Arno wrote: »
    Hello!

    Arno, the generalist mage has cleared the Werewolf Island, Ice Island, Durlag's Tower and Ulgoth's Beard.

    I'm very surprise that avoiding the battlechess game was so easy like cast an invisibility spell. The battle with Aec'Letec required a lot of charges of my Wand of Paralization, but once it worked i could beat him with a couple of ogres of the Wand of Summoning.

    Next trip: return to history at Baldur's Gate.

    See you soon!

    @Arno
    how u beat wherewolf island ? ..... that last wherewolf in the boat ??? i could not beat him with my pure cleric so i cheated there (was not part of my normal run just wanted to check that area out since i have never been there before and i could not leave the island without killing the dude or go realy far back on reload) and so i dont think i could beat him with my mage either, ive seen charmed players with chromatic orb kill them but there is no one on wolf island to charm that can cast that spell, so plz enlighten me ! haha

    Harpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    does anyone of u guys know why some enemies still attack while Sanctuary ? and is it for me possible to do the same to sanctuary enemies that goes healing themself cause i have no idea how this sanctuary works it is supposed to be u know .... everyone should not know of your existence...

    Harpagornis
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    @Mr_Salty: Sounds like a bug. Are they actually making attack rolls and hitting you through Sanctuary, or are they just following you around? The latter is a fluke of a certain AI pattern in which enemies try to find you but can't quite pin you down; the former should only be possible by critters who can see through invisibility, like dragons, SoA demons, liches besides Shangalar, and bosses like Melissan and so forth.

    If the enemy isn't attacking you through Sanctuary but it still following you around, you might be able to get it to stop by walking over to it and touching its circle with your character's circle (that is, get in its way and bump into it). If it's the right kind of AI issue, the enemy will stop there, since it has arrived at your current destination and will go no further. Then you can wander off, and unless it's using some IWD-style AI, it won't follow you anymore.

    Harpagornis
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    @Harpagornis @histamiini: Tomorrow I do Bridgefort. Is it wise to surrender the fort? Is it safe?

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,415
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    does anyone of u guys know why some enemies still attack while Sanctuary ? and is it for me possible to do the same to sanctuary enemies that goes healing themself cause i have no idea how this sanctuary works it is supposed to be u know .... everyone should not know of your existence...

    @Mr_Salty some types of attacks will go through sanctuary. A good example is wands - you can indeed attack opponents using sanctuary with those. Even a magic missile wand can be helpful in that situation to prevent enemies from casting healing or buffing spells while in sanctuary.

    @semiticgod if you're not concerned about RP consequences (which I suspect you're not), surrendering is safe and far easier than fighting (though I've never tried surrendering without talking to the smith and mage first - it's possible that could lead to problems). You still have to fight the mage on the bridge, but that's relatively minor compared to avoiding the main conflict.

    StummvonBordwehrhistamiinisemiticgod
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,295
    edited April 2019
    @semiticgod I think I've once fought the fort battle, but once you surrender, you'll never go back, it's far easier.

    semiticgodHarpagornis
  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 24

    @Arno
    how u beat wherewolf island ? ..... that last wherewolf in the boat ??? i could not beat him with my pure cleric so i cheated there (was not part of my normal run just wanted to check that area out since i have never been there before and i could not leave the island without killing the dude or go realy far back on reload) and so i dont think i could beat him with my mage either, ive seen charmed players with chromatic orb kill them but there is no one on wolf island to charm that can cast that spell, so plz enlighten me ! haha

    Mmm, i dont remember if i have beaten him with the spell of Polymorph Others or with the Wand of Polymorphing. After some reloads Karoug was transformed in a simple squirrel (one that can heal himself very fast!). After that I attacked him with the silver dagger (with the aid of Haste and strength buffs) and killed him with a critical.

    I think that the Wand of Polymorphing can be used for clerics so this could be a good weapon for your character vs Karoug ;)

    StummvonBordwehrMr_SaltyHarpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    does anyone of u guys know why some enemies still attack while Sanctuary ? and is it for me possible to do the same to sanctuary enemies that goes healing themself cause i have no idea how this sanctuary works it is supposed to be u know .... everyone should not know of your existence...

    @Mr_Salty some types of attacks will go through sanctuary. A good example is wands - you can indeed attack opponents using sanctuary with those. Even a magic missile wand can be helpful in that situation to prevent enemies from casting healing or buffing spells while in sanctuary.

    @semiticgod if you're not concerned about RP consequences (which I suspect you're not), surrendering is safe and far easier than fighting (though I've never tried surrendering without talking to the smith and mage first - it's possible that could lead to problems). You still have to fight the mage on the bridge, but that's relatively minor compared to avoiding the main conflict.

    i just attack the camp kill 2 guys run off the map come back after rest kill 2 more (preferable mages/Clerics) until all those nasty casters are gone and then i just clean it up without a loss of any Named unit

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    edited April 2019
    semiticgod wrote: »
    @Mr_Salty: Sounds like a bug. Are they actually making attack rolls and hitting you through Sanctuary, or are they just following you around? The latter is a fluke of a certain AI pattern in which enemies try to find you but can't quite pin you down; the former should only be possible by critters who can see through invisibility, like dragons, SoA demons, liches besides Shangalar, and bosses like Melissan and so forth.

    If the enemy isn't attacking you through Sanctuary but it still following you around, you might be able to get it to stop by walking over to it and touching its circle with your character's circle (that is, get in its way and bump into it). If it's the right kind of AI issue, the enemy will stop there, since it has arrived at your current destination and will go no further. Then you can wander off, and unless it's using some IWD-style AI, it won't follow you anymore.

    @semiticgod
    the dao genie quest in trademeet wants me to kill the raks (the potion lady) all of them attack me while Sanctuary.. its all on video :) at 2:00:00

    Also the Mindflayer boss at the sewers will still attack me while in Sanctuary aswell
    and the vampiric wraith aswell in watcher keep :neutral:

    Post edited by Mr_Salty on
    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    edited April 2019
    Arno wrote: »

    @Arno
    how u beat wherewolf island ? ..... that last wherewolf in the boat ??? i could not beat him with my pure cleric so i cheated there (was not part of my normal run just wanted to check that area out since i have never been there before and i could not leave the island without killing the dude or go realy far back on reload) and so i dont think i could beat him with my mage either, ive seen charmed players with chromatic orb kill them but there is no one on wolf island to charm that can cast that spell, so plz enlighten me ! haha

    Mmm, i dont remember if i have beaten him with the spell of Polymorph Others or with the Wand of Polymorphing. After some reloads Karoug was transformed in a simple squirrel (one that can heal himself very fast!). After that I attacked him with the silver dagger (with the aid of Haste and strength buffs) and killed him with a critical.

    I think that the Wand of Polymorphing can be used for clerics so this could be a good weapon for your character vs Karoug ;)

    Sweet ima try that out thanx
    No idea where to get that wand tho haha gotta check the posts again ive seen it mentioned here somewhere

  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 884
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    @Mr_Salty: Vampiric Wraiths can always see through invisibility and Sanctuary. At least with SCS, mind flayers can as well. Ihtafeer is a surprise to me; she has no opcode that should enable that behavior.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    I just realized that one year has passed after i left this challenge to seek new adventures. But with 2.5 live and also SCS updated it might be time to see what i have forgotten. :D

    Therefore i rolled one of my old favourites - a Dwarven Swashbuckler - to feel the full pain of the buffed enemy AC. By now i must say: Holy cow! I just failed to kite Greywolf even with full trap package and charmed Amnien Soldiers as we just could not hit him. At the end Algernons Cloak - like always - safed the day and Greywolf was feeded to some Kobolds (still took six tries).

    The Basilisk XP looks a bit different now (at least for classes without stealth) as Talanthyrs invisibilty will just break after resting or traveling. Thats interesting. Braxx however just charmed a Lesser Basilisk on his first try and used the XP loop without any difficulties.

    Drizzt was tricked by activating some Gnolls without getting into vision and after twenty minutes of hacking he went down. Thanks for the precious Scimitars!

    Once Dushai gifted us his Ring of Free Action (21 tries) we started the usual reputation run hitting 20 after helping Prism. The next steps following the main story should be easy - hopefully. Oh, i also realized that stealth now breaks when using the quick loot function - thats not nice. :D

    I still fear that Big B will be really painful with a Swashbuckler - or are there any new tricks beside Champions Strength stacking? I also read that the last Crusader Wave got a bit harder as the allies are no longer immortal. Anything else i should prepare for with the new settings? ;)

    histamiiniAerakarStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,295
    edited April 2019
    @Harpagornis You can still right click loot to not break invisibility. Wand of Polymorphing has found to be useful against Bel, it doesn't change him to squirrel but HP is reduced to 1, can thieves use that? Other changes I've noticed is the bridge mage in chapter 9. If you can't stop her, she conjures an amazing amount of enemies, and it's game over. Potions of Intelligence wont stack over 25, PfM before BG2 is caster only, are some other changes.

    HarpagornissemiticgodStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    edited April 2019
    Right-click loot @histamiini ? Noted!

    Yeah, Thieves should be able to use the Wand of Polymorphing. Will it ignore MR? If so: Awesome!

    Bridge Mage i will have to take a closer look later on.

    So no more Sendai disable via PfM? Too bad!

    Braxx has collected lots of stuff but so far things are quite easy thanks to Algernons Cloak even though the enemy punching now lasts "a bit" longer. Interesting that the Kobolds no longer go hostile when being attacked by Mulahey making the feeding even easier. Tranzig was stomped by charmed Kargat who made short work of him. Bandit Camp was rushed with stealth and invisilbity while also feeding Taurgosz before leaving. The Cloakwood will be next! ;)

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,295
    @Harpagornis Yeah right click, then looting via menu screen doesn't break invisibility. Not sure about MR, but I think it ignores it. Sendai can still be PfM'd as it's caster only before BG2, but in BG2 it's creature again.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    I just realized that one year has passed after i left this challenge to seek new adventures. But with 2.5 live and also SCS updated it might be time to see what i have forgotten. :D

    Therefore i rolled one of my old favourites - a Dwarven Swashbuckler - to feel the full pain of the buffed enemy AC. By now i must say: Holy cow! I just failed to kite Greywolf even with full trap package and charmed Amnien Soldiers as we just could not hit him. At the end Algernons Cloak - like always - safed the day and Greywolf was feeded to some Kobolds (still took six tries).

    The Basilisk XP looks a bit different now (at least for classes without stealth) as Talanthyrs invisibilty will just break after resting or traveling. Thats interesting. Braxx however just charmed a Lesser Basilisk on his first try and used the XP loop without any difficulties.

    Drizzt was tricked by activating some Gnolls without getting into vision and after twenty minutes of hacking he went down. Thanks for the precious Scimitars!

    Once Dushai gifted us his Ring of Free Action (21 tries) we started the usual reputation run hitting 20 after helping Prism. The next steps following the main story should be easy - hopefully. Oh, i also realized that stealth now breaks when using the quick loot function - thats not nice. :D

    I still fear that Big B will be really painful with a Swashbuckler - or are there any new tricks beside Champions Strength stacking? I also read that the last Crusader Wave got a bit harder as the allies are no longer immortal. Anything else i should prepare for with the new settings? ;)

    haha Have fun and update us !! good luck!

    Harpagornis
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    Thieves won't be able to use the Wand of Polymorphing without the right mods (Item Revisions will allow thieves to use them). The wand will not bypass magic resistance, and if the save bug is fixed, Belhifet will have -1 base saves vs. wand, or -5 with Improved Invisibility active. With the save bug in place, Belhifet's save vs. wand is 4, or 0 with Improved Invisibility active.

    @histamiini: How recent are your findings related to Potions of Genius stacking? My non-LoB Archer run made extensive use of them and successfully avoided mind flayer INT drain in BG2 using them (she would get hit but her displayed INT would remain at 25), and that was a v2.5 run.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    Hhhmmm... so the Wand of Polymorph is no option against Big B for Thieves - thats bad. At the moment i cant see how to tank with the Swashi. No Champions Strength means hit chance will be quite low so hit & run using invis potions could be a problem (whats Big B´s AC in 2.5?). Also no Helm means crits will can be a huge pain factor...

    BtW: Is there a list where Champions Strength Scrolls can be found?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    LoB AC still obeys the AC cap according to @histamiini, so it can't go below -20 without the help of DEX, Single Weapon Style, and specific modifiers. Belhifet's AC would be at -20 without Improved Invisibility and -24 with it, instead of -12 and -16. So his AC is only 8 points better instead of 11.

    But a Swashbuckler's THAC0 appears to be -4 at best without a Potion of Invisibility, and I calculate a net average damage of 14 per round, which means more than 80 rounds to beat Belhifet, far beyond the duration of the Potions of Power at your disposal. No idea how many Potions of Invisibility you'd need to kite him, but it sounds like a lot.

    Champion's Strength scrolls can be bought from Belegarm, 10 total. I think you can buy other scrolls from priests, but Near Infinity doesn't show it for some reason.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    Hhhmmm... so the Wand of Polymorph is no option against Big B for Thieves - thats bad. At the moment i cant see how to tank with the Swashi. No Champions Strength means hit chance will be quite low so hit & run using invis potions could be a problem (whats Big B´s AC in 2.5?). Also no Helm means crits will can be a huge pain factor...

    BtW: Is there a list where Champions Strength Scrolls can be found?

    Bg 1 Temple of Helm
    Bg Sod quartermaster belegarm

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    edited April 2019
    @histamiini: I'm coming up to the end of SoD. How do you handle Chateau Irenicus? I'm concerned that if I screw up locking the mephits outside the mephit portal area, I'll have to kite the portals from afar, and there isn't a lot of ranged ammunition available to a character who cannot realistically kill any of the duergar.

    Also, is it truly, truly safe to kill the Unseeing Eye quest's rest ambush Gauths with just the Shield of Balduran? I normally don't do XP loops in SoA, but I might try that one out.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    Come to think of it, the odds of keeping Caelar alive with Greater Restoration scrolls seem a lot better if you begin the fight by summoning some myconids or ankhegs or mephits. That would buy you some time to kill off Hephernaan and the other demons.

    Still, you couldn't keep the enemies from building up around Caelar and eventually overwhelming her, so you can only keep her alive for a few rounds. Almost no character obeying the level cap can kill the enemies faster than they appear unless you're blasting them with Arrows of Detonation; I calculate a maximum of about 130 damage per round to non-Belhifet demons for a dual-wielding ranger with demons as a racial enemy (it buys you 1 more point of damage compared to Grandmastery and no racial enemy). You could only keep the other demons at bay as long as those Champion's Strength scrolls gave you a 95% hit rate, so even if you could clear the field, it's still best to focus on Belhifet himself.

    With the -11 AC bonus from v2.5 and without the save bug or the Mestil's Acid Sheath spell from Spell Revisions, it looks like, for anyone aside from a Cleric/Mage or Fighter/Mage/Cleric who can use Enchanted Weapon on the Martyr's Morningstar, tanking with Potions of Heroism/Power and Durlag's Goblet/Greater Restoration scrolls is the only remaining viable method for no-reload purposes. Caelar's not tough enough, the Wand of Polymorphing is a bit of a crapshoot for a mage, Harm is a crapshoot for a druid, kiting is terrible as always, and Potions of Invisibility might not be enough to cut it when Belhifet has an additional -8 AC.

    That last one remains to be seen, of course. But it seems like a really bad deal for anyone who can't achieve really good melee THAC0.

    Grond0StummvonBordwehrHarpagornishistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    Yeah, that were more or less my throughts too when looking for some viable nR combos that could beat Big B without getting into sweat @semiticgod.

    Another question even though i know that it has been discussed here long ago: Is it right that the caster level of scrolls is 10? Will for instance Enchanted Blade still have the same duration when casted by a level 1 Mage? I cant test things right now so any advice is welcome. :)

    You can easily get 150+ invisibility potions but if your hit chance is low things still look badly as Big B is constantly regenerating. I also never counted on Caelar even though the Myconids (or Greater Restoration) might help her to surive a little bit more.

    I also realized that our poverty Totemic Druid will be even more doomed as the fight against Sarevok for now seems (nearly) impossible. Looks like we will never make this one getting real... :(

    Grond0histamiini
  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 24
    @Mr_Salty
    Not to worry. You can get the wand in BG city:
    http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/walkthrough/baldursgatenorthwestern.php

    According to the wiki it can be all besides warrior classes:
    https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Wand_of_Polymorphing

    Hello. I thought that StummvonBordwehr was right. But I have chequed and, at least in my game, the Wand of Polymorphing can only be used for wizards :(

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    @Arno u are missing 1 TOGL in my fight against sarevok i used up all 5!

  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 24
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    @Arno u are missing 1 TOGL in my fight against sarevok i used up all 5!

    Mmm, what is TOGL? :o

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