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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification



  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    90 FPS and 1 HP is actually a terrible way to play the game no-reload. The sudden death scenarios are so much more sudden and so much more irreversible than they are in a normal game. You don't have much time to think ahead or react.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,321
    semiticgod wrote: »
    90 FPS and 1 HP is actually a terrible way to play the game no-reload. The sudden death scenarios are so much more sudden and so much more irreversible than they are in a normal game. You don't have much time to think ahead or react.

    @semiticgod the game has a limit of 60 fps. Setting the .lua file to anything above that will just select 60. I agree though that makes it harder to take action in the game - particularly if you're not pausing much.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 18
    @semiticgod I don't think allies are necessary against Troll wave with damage immunity, although like you said they can sometimes wander away, which allies could stop I think. But getting the Undead is so easy, that I would always do it.

    I don't plan using WoL trick for the run, only exploits I think of using is the permanent Shapechange from scroll of Limited Wish, and Tears of Bhaal trick, although don't know what I'm choosing though.

    I've been perfecting my spell book before continuing the run, currently in this form:


    Still to decide Invisibility options for -4/-4 buffing, invisibility detection options and Lower Resistance or Pierce Magic? And also what kind of damage dealing options I choose, do I need Black Blade Disaster with Shapechange? I need to do some testing still.

    Sequencers, triggers and contingencies I get as innate ability from SCS options. Spell Trap is waste of spell, as you get 8h version from Staff of Magi.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    @histamiini: How do you prevent the dwarves of Dumathoin from being shattered by the wights' level drain? Do you just have to isolate the wights early on and keep them from reaching the dwarves? I'm at the Coalition Camp, but I'm considering going back to my pre-Bridgefort save, consoling in the necklaces, doing the relevant quest, and then going back to my most-current save and using the console or something to get the lich's help, replicating the effects of having been able to do the quest properly.

    Black Blade of Disaster does slightly less damage than Iron Golem form but has +7 THAC0 assuming you're using the fire giant strength girdle for 22 base STR. Firetooth does more than either, but the THAC0 is 6 worse than BBoD and +1 compared to Iron Golem form. THAC0 might be important given enemy AC and any dual-wielding penalties you might have, but if you're attacking during Time Stop, THAC0 is generally moot. For critters immune to Time Stop, I assume you'll be kiting. Firetooth+Boneblade are even better if you have higher STR from Hell or the damage bonuses from Emotion, Hope and Emotion, Courage scrolls.

    I believe you should get 3 scrolls of both Imprisonment and BBoD by Saradush, if you only need them 3 times or less.

    You might not need Improved Invisibility. If you want to improve your saves vs. spell at least, you can stack Spirit Armor spells. The AC bonus doesn't stack, but the save vs. spell bonus does, and that can go further negative than Improved Invisibility.

    I don't think Lower Resistance and Pierce Magic are important. Pierce Shield should already be sufficient.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 18
    @semiticgod I've never had them being shattered in my runs, so I didn't even know before you told about that.

    Yeah I plan to fight mostly on Time Stops, which eliminates the Thac0 problem. 18 rounds of Time Stop is pretty sweet. And only real problems I need melee are mostly Mind Flayers and Solars. Death Fog triggers should control all who can't see through invisibility, and summons including 8 apr Planetar should pawn most enemies.

    Imprisonment might be pointless too, I only need it for the bosses and I think many are immune for it. It's important against Ogremoch, that I know.

    Good point about Spirit Armor stacking, does Blur work the same way? The Lower Resistance or Pierce Magic gives slightly more controllability, because they fit in Spell Trigger, but maybe I don't need them that much.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    @histamiini Blur does not stack in EE; only vanilla.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    Guys, there's a no-save level drain trap in Dragonspear Castle. It's the chest with the Spell Immunity scroll. @histamiini, you haven't mentioned using jelly form--did you just skip that chest?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    I did some testing and there are three other pitfalls:

    1. Don't combine jelly form with more than three Potions of Stone Form or you could die instantly upon changing form due to DEX drain.
    2. Don't use Emotion, Courage scrolls because they give you +5 HP and can result in a two-hit kill.
    3. Even though Belhifet's weapon is flagged to grant immunity to its on-hit effects to any critter with 100% poison resistance, this does not work and it will apply disease effects to someone in jelly form regardless. The CON penalty is an instant kill--you need to wear the Purification Stone unless you have the potions to guarantee successful saves vs. death at -2 for the entire fight.

    Also, if you're using jelly form, you have to make sure to move right next to him before attacking. If you try to strike him from range, he might box himself out with his own summons, and Fire Shield Blue will be useless if he can't reach you.

    For some reason I got a long-lasting -4 STR penalty during the fight, but the only source of STR drain I can find is Belhifet's disease effect, which should not bypass the Purification Stone. Also, if the STR drain came from Belhifet's weapon, it also should have killed me with the CON drain as well. So, I was operating at 21 STR instead of 25, but I don't know why.

    Otherwise, the jelly form is very efficient and easy to use against Belhifet. As long as you have the Archer's Eyes, Purification Stone, Violet Potion, and some spare Oils of Speed, you should be able to strike him down even without Fire Shield Blue scrolls. Cloverleaf, Legacy of the Masters, and Emotion: Hope scrolls should speed things up but are probably not necessary. In fact, if you have Cloverleaf and Legacy of the Masters, you shouldn't need any potions or any scrolls in order to survive.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    For those who plan on going level 1 for the entire saga, the following critters in BG2 drain CON on-hit and can therefore instantly end a run:

    Yaga-Shura, both forms
    Xei Win Toh
    Gorion (probably the fake Gorion at Nyalee's place)
    Any SCS vampire who switches to their blood-drinking attack

    I'm not clear on which spells drain CON. There are a bunch of them, but they all appear to be obscure and avoidable spells like stuff from the Deck of Many Things.

    These are the undispellable save bonuses you could get:

    Staff of the Magi: +2
    Amulet of the Seldarine: +1
    Robe of the Archmagi: +1
    Cloak of Protection +2: +2
    Ring of Protection +2/+3: +2/+3
    Ring of Gaxx: +2
    Hell: +2, or up to +10 if using the Tear of Bhaal trick
    Amulet of Spell Warding: +2 to save vs. spell
    Periapt of Life Protection: +3 to save vs. death

    Before Hell, you would need dispellable stuff to hit subzero saves. After Hell, you can hit -7 save vs. death and -9 save vs. spell at the same time, so you're in pretty solid shape.

    @histamiini, how would a level 1 character get the Cloak of the Lich? I'm unfamiliar with the ToB quests, and that cloak could be instrumental in avoiding Death Spells and Bodhi's Touch of Death.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 262
    The Cloak of the Lich is in Neera's ToB quest, available for purchase once you're transported to Thay. To do that quest, you'll need her in the party and the ability to move around on the world map.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    Okay, I'm back up to Bridgefort. It's still very time-consuming to lose a run, but at least things are quicker now. I don't stop by Durlag's Tower at all anymore, and there are some minor fights that I know to avoid.

    We had a scare at the Ducal Palace, though. Somehow I mismanaged the charmed nobles and ended up fighting the Doppelganger Mage much later on, when Liia Jannath's defenses were weaker. Despite a Greater Malison scroll and numerous Wand of Paralyzation charges, I couldn't stun the doppelganger before it cut her down, and Belt was at Near Death when we finished off the last doppelganger. The Wand of Frost might be a better alternative to the Wand of Paralyzation for dealing with the doppelgangers. Both are single-target and therefore party-friendly in my install, but the Wand of Frost at least makes some progress on a successful save.

    I might have come very close to dying in the dwarves of Dumathoin area as well. I left jelly form and walked across a trap before my aura was clear, and if that was a charm trap, I might have had a rather high chance of dying (my save vs. spell was 4 once I switched around my gear).

    Anyway, the dwarves went hostile somehow, which meant I didn't have to hurry to kill the first wight before it shattered one of the dwarves. Attacking the dwarves themselves is a decent option if you have 2 Protection from Undead scrolls: one to keep the undead from hassling you while you fight the dwarves, and then another to reach the lich safely (the former can easily run out before you can get to the lich).

    @Grond0: I'm pretty sure 90 FPS is actually possible. I noticed a surprising slowdown when I bumped the LUA back down to 60, only to see it speed up again when I switched back to 90 FPS.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,321
    semiticgod wrote: »
    @Grond0: I'm pretty sure 90 FPS is actually possible. I noticed a surprising slowdown when I bumped the LUA back down to 60, only to see it speed up again when I switched back to 90 FPS.

    I agree the LUA file allows you to enter 90 (above that it just reverts to 30 when you start the game). However, on my computer at least there's no difference between the game speed at 60 and 90. I suppose it's possible that a difference would be present on a better computer, though that seems rather unlikely to me.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 20
    @semiticgod Sorcerer didn't need to open the chest, although I seem to recall PfM too would stop the trap effects.

    Cloak of the Lich, among many other useful things is sold in Thay market. You only need to take Neera outside of Pocket Plane and travel to another map. There you will be ambushed by four mages and about 10 fighters, which should pose no threat. Neera though will be dead in about a second. Then you will be teleported to Thay were you need first to fight a hoard of Yuan-ti, again no threat to 1 hp mage. Now you can RoR Neera and then send her back to Pocket Plane. Then you can shop freely in the market before Szass Tam will teleport you to the final area. There you need to kill about 10-20 guards, although I'm not sure if you can just skip the guards, then Vicross, and lastly Szass himself. Don't know if either will pose threat at that point, although Vicross can go absolutely berserk with summons as she's Wild Mage. My monk was slightly got off guard when she cast about 20 summons including three Balors. :D Also maybe you can just kill Szass in the market and skip the last part all together, never tested that.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 20
    Did some testing with Sorcerer melee damage:

    Power Potion, 25 STR, Legacy of Masters, Improved Haste

    Firetooth +3 22-29dmg 4apr 3Thac0
    Dagger of the Stars +5 22-25dmg 2apr 5Thac0
    149 average damage per round

    Energy Blades +5 9-21 9 apr 0Thac0
    135 average damage per round

    Black Blade Disaster +6 28-50dmg 2apr 1Thac0
    Dagger of the Stars +5 22-25dmg 2apr -3Thac0
    125 average damage per round

    Dagger of the Stars +5 22-25dmg 2apr 1Thac0
    Boneblade +4 21-24dmg 2apr 6Thac0
    92 average damage per round

    Mind Flayer form +2 15-16dmg 8apr 3Thac0
    124 average damage per round

    Iron Golem form 20-56dmg 2apr 2Thac0
    76 average damage per round

    Iron Golem form is weak being Sorcerer, but 8 apr Mind Flayer form will eat two Mind Flayers in a round during Time Stop, so that's sorted out. Although I will need to revert to human form to cast another Time Stop which will take some time. This still leaves the Solars, and Mind Flayer +2 attack can't touch them, as they're immune to +3 weapons, so not even Enchanted Weapon will help. Black Blade Disaster could kill them, but Disintegrate (238) has +4 bonus for save vs. death. I wonder if it's a bug, I would pressume it to be -4 instead like with Axe of Unyealding or Silver Sword? That leaves pretty much pure melee, and I would need about 13 rounds to kill one with Dagger of the Stars +5 and Boneblade +4.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 20
    I think I've perfected my spell book:


    Some notes:

    - Oracle instead of True Sight, I still can cast two True Sights, from Gem of Seeing and possibly from Book of Infinite Spells. This exchange allows Pierce Magic instead Lower Resistance.
    - Spell Trap can be cast from Staff of Magi, superior 8 hour version.
    - Protection from Fire and Protection from Acid so I can cast Death Fog and Incendiary Cloud on myself.
    - Invisibility 10' provides long Invisibility, Mislead escape and Mass Invisibility -4/-4 buffs.
    - Permanent Shapechange to Mind Flayer form from Limited Wish scroll.
    - Sequencers, triggers and contingencies from SCS innate ability option.
    - PfMW, Improved Mantle +4 and Absolute Immunity +5 provide practical weapon immunity up to 72 rounds.
    - No summon or damage spells from the same level, and trying to avoid similar spells in the book.

    Still not certain if I need Pierce Magic or Imprisonment, and if I should exchange them for something else? How good are Demon summons?

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,321
    I thought from your previous posts you wanted Shapechange?

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    @Grond0 Yeah I'll use the permanent Shapechange exploit from Limited Wish scroll.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    @histamiini: There should be at least 4 Time Stop scrolls in the game (Ribald, Suldannessellar, Lazarus Librarus), and 6 castings of Time Stop via spell slots, for a total of 30 rounds. That's enough to kill both Fallen Solars (26 rounds for both), but that leaves only a single level 9 spell slot to cast Wish, or maybe two slots if you used a BBoD scroll. Those aren't good odds for landing a Wish-rest afterwards. You might need to use a PFMW->Project Image->PFMW->Improved Alacrity->Lower Resistance x3 combo (and probably all the clone's Wish spells as well) to nuke the Fallen Solars with spell damage at the cost of a level 7 and level 9 spell slots. Assuming the Fallen Solars have no resistance to the relevant damage type, 6 Skull Traps could get you 210 damage and 6 Magic Missiles could get you 105. Melf's Acid Arrow could get you another 240 lingering damage. All of that could be done with casting times of zero, which means you could end Project Image with 2 rounds still left in your Charname's PFMW, or 1 round with a fully clear aura.

    That's not great, but multiple Wish spells from clones under IA (all 6 Wishes could also have casting time zero with AoP and RoV) could let you repeat the process until the Fallen Solars' Heal spells got disrupted by Melf's Acid Arrow damage. Their Heal spells aren't instant-casting; they're just very fast.

    If you did use the Wand of Lightning trick to cast 6 Wishes at once, you could very easily land both Wish-rests and double-length Time Stops. The odds of not having enough automatic hits on the Fallen Solars would be very small with the WoL trick.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    @semiticgod Yeah there's tactics with clones, and I could retain all spell slots after the initial battle. Tested it and level 31 Sorcerer can cast level 19 Simulacrum clone, which can cast four 9th level spells and all HLA abilities.

    Other than spell book, there's 9 guaranteed Time Stops in the game:

    1 Vithal (Underdark)
    1 Ribald (Chapter 6)
    1 Mage (North Forest)
    1 House (Suldanessellar)
    1 Dragon (Evil path in Test of Pride)
    2 Arcana Archives
    1 Spell Merchant (Neera guestline ToB)
    1 Limited Wish

    I reinstalled brand spanking new SCS v32.4 and Ascension 2.0.8, so no more fun Balors.

    // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
    // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
    // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #0 // Rewritten Final Chapter of Throne of Bhaal: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #10 // Balthazar can be redeemed: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #20 // Improved Sarevok-Player Interactions: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #30 // Improved Imoen-Player Interactions in Throne of Bhaal: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #40 // Restored Bhaalspawn Powers: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #50 // Improved Slayer Transformation: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #60 // Expanded Epilogues for Bioware NPCs -> David Gaider's expanded epilogues for Bioware NPCs: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Tougher Abazigal: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Tougher Balthazar: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1200 // Tougher Demogorgon: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1300 // Tougher Gromnir: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1400 // Tougher Illasera: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1500 // Tougher Yaga-Shura: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2000 // Full-body portrait for Bodhi: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2100 // Alternate Balthazar portrait, by Cuv: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2200 // Extended Epilogues for additional Beamdog NPCs, by shawne: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2300 // Sharper portraits of Abazigal and Gromnir for the Enhanced Edition, by DavidW: 2.0.8
    ~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2400 // Slightly improved cutscenes, by DavidW: 2.0.8
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3040 // Make Bags of Holding Bottomless: v9
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3080 // Increase Ammo Stack Size -> Unlimited Ammo Stacking: v9
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3100 // Increase Potion Stacking -> Unlimited Potion Stacking: v9
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3110 // Increase Scroll Stacking -> Unlimited Scroll Stacking: v9
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1500 // Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1510 // Include divine spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3505 // Wider selection of random scrolls: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3550 // Increase the power of Cure Wounds and Cause Wounds spells to the level found in 3rd Edition D&D -> Spells heal or inflict a random amount of damage (1d8 per level of the spell, plus 1 point per caster level, to a maximum of 5 points per spell level): v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Faster Bears: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4030 // Improved shapeshifting: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4115 // Thieves assign skill points in multiples of five: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4240 // Treat mages' and priests' High-Level Abilities as innate abilities rather than memorisable spells (each may be taken only once): v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4250 // Make spell sequencers and contingencies into innate abilities: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Smarter Priests: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6100 // Potions for NPCs: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved Spiders: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6500 // Improved golems: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6510 // Improved fiends and celestials: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6520 // Smarter genies: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6540 // Smarter dragons: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6550 // Smarter beholders: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6560 // Smarter mind flayers: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6570 // Smarter githyanki: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6580 // Improved Vampires: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6590 // Smarter Throne of Bhaal final villain: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6800 // Smarter Illasera: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6810 // Smarter Gromnir: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6820 // Smarter Yaga-Shura: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6830 // Smarter Abazigal: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6840 // Ascension versions of Irenicus and Sendai use SCS abilities and AI: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6850 // Ascension demons use SCS abilities and AI: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8000 // Make the starting dungeon slightly harder: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8010 // Improved Shade Lord: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8020 // Spellcasting Demiliches: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8040 // Tie difficulty of level-dependent monster groupings to the difficulty slider: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8050 // Improved Random Encounters: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8060 // Improved de'Arnise Keep ("Tactics Remix"): v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8070 // Improved Unseeing Eye: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8080 // Improved Bodhi: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8085 // Ascension version of Bodhi uses Improved-Bodhi abilities: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8100 // Improved battle with Irenicus in Spellhold: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8110 // Improved Sahuagin: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8120 // Improved Beholder hive: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8130 // Rebalanced troll regeneration: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8140 // Improved Drow: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8150 // Improved Watcher's Keep: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8160 // Improved Fire Giant temple: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8170 // Improved Sendai's Enclave: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8180 // Improved Abazigal's Lair: v32.4
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8190 // Improved Minor Encounters: v32.4
    ~LOB_SAVE_FIX/LOB_SAVE_FIX.TP2~ #0 #0 // improve saving throws of all non-joinable creatures

    Level 11, and after casting Familiar I've almighty 65 hp. Hasted Skelis and Sword Spiders killed all in Irenicus dungeon, except Ulvaryl. This netted 140k xp and 11k gold. Next is the usual looting of Maevar's guild hall, Nymph cloak and Shadow Thieves guest line.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    Finally done with SoD! I was afraid we'd lose the run at the Coalition Camp invasion, however. Like in some of my previous runs, one of the enemies in the first wave just decided to ignore me entirely and went straight for the barrels even though she could have easily targeted me and there were several living allies already onscreen--she had no reason whatsoever to wander off; she had multiple valid targets that she walked right past. I was wondering if this was a bug that could justify a reload, but I kept going to see what happened.

    The next waves all triggered, sure enough, and I tried to stave off the invasion by spamming the Wand of Monster Summoning. Previously, I've more or less obeyed the summoning cap even though it's been disabled in my install--so, I'd sometimes have more than 5 critters at a time, but I never used two full sets of monsters on a real fight--but since this was a special occasion, I decided to just flood the map.

    But fear spells sent my monsters running all over the place, and they led Crusaders towards the barrels as well, a process I couldn't possibly stop.

    The funny thing was, most of the enemies did not walk right past me--they crowded around my jelly mage trying to get a hit in, but were boxed out by other Crusaders. Unlike the barbarian lady in the first wave, who completely ignored nearby targets and just went straight for the barrels, most of the Crusaders in the ensuing flood ignored the barrels even though they had no available targets.

    The net result? I had a huge crowd of Crusaders bunching up around me, which I could freely bomb with the multiple fully-charged Wands of Fire I bought using the gold I got from the Nazramu trick. Down south, the Coalition fighters wrestled with the handful of Crusaders who walked past me, and while the Crusaders were solidly winning that fight, Kegleg and Cuvieronius just get whomping away at Andrus, who had the MINHP1.itm ring and was therefore immortal.

    I nailed Kegleg with a Wand of Paralyzation to help kill him, but Cuvieronius was just out of my line of sight. I bombed the rest of the group until Grimgor was gone, at which point the Crusaders dispersed. Cuvieronius also fled--he's a named enemy, but he's a named enemy of the second wave; he's not part of Grimgor's team like Kegleg is, and so the area script apparently didn't require him to be dead in order for the Crusaders to flee.

    By the way: the reason why Belhifet killed me in one of my test runs (this was before I started my current run) was not because Belhifet's weapon ignored the jelly form's immunity to poison--it was because jelly form doesn't actually grant immunity to poison!

    The jelly attack grants immunity to the poison opcode, immunity to Cloudkill, and 100% poison resistance. But because it also polymorphs you into a Mustard Jelly, and because creature files have no field for poison resistance, an old engine limitation erroneously set my poison resistance to zero, and equipped items like the jelly attack can't reset polymorphed resistances.. If I had died to that in a real run, I actually could have reloaded!

    But the Purification Stone works fine because, while it also doesn't grant 100% poison resistance to someone in jelly form, it does grant immunity to the disease opcode, and that blocks Belhifet's CON drain as well. A Protection from Poison scroll could also work, but the duration is finite albeit long and the ioun stone is definitely safer.

    We crushed Belhifet with a 51-damage critical hit with a flying lump of jelly and used the CON tome before leveling up at the end of SoD, leaving us with 32 HP (Diviners can't cast Find Familiar, which I undervalued since familiars never got LoB bonuses in my EET runs). We'll be entering BG2 at level 12, so we have two castings of Shades to test out against the critters of Chateau Irenicus. Since I used jelly form to unlock the Dragonspear basement chests at Hephernaan's place, we also already have Spell Immunity and Spell Shield on hand.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    @semiticgod Well done! I thought you were going 1 hp all the way? Does Diviner serve some special purpose? I remember Familiar problem too with EET, but it does work without. 58 hp seems rather nice for ToB, especially when con gimped.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    @histamiini: I've considered a level 1 run, but a Diviner(22)->Cleric seemed more fun since I haven't had much opportunity to try out IWD priest spells. I'm still not sure if there's some instant-death scenario for level 1 characters in BG2 or ToB, and I didn't want to play through the first 90% of the saga only to hit some hideous and inexplicable roadblock.

    I wanted a specialist for the extra level 9 spell slot. I ruled out the other specialists for various reasons:

    Conjurer: Has to start the game with 15 Constitution
    Necromancer: Can't cast Project Image
    Illusionist: Can't cast Animate Dead, Skull Trap
    Enchanter: Can't cast Fire Shield
    Invoker: Has to start the game with 16 Constitution, can't cast Greater Malison or Feeblemind
    Abjurer: Can't cast Stoneskin
    Transmuter: Can't cast PFMW

    Unless you can safely get at least 12-14 Vials of Mysterious Liquid as a level 1 mage without 1 HP, Conjurers and Invokers can't even get past early BG1 unless they can scrape together the money for a lot of Wand of Monster Summoning charges or something. Abjurers aren't very safe, and Transmuters flat-out can't tackle SCS ToB unless they're dual-classed to something better.

    Enchanters are actually viable since jelly form will let you take down Belhifet even without Fire Shield scrolls (it does rule out BBoD+Spell Trap as a truly reliable infinite spell source). Necromancers are also viable, since Project Image isn't strictly necessary if you already have near-infinite spell slots from WoL Wish-rests and you already have alternative invisibility options in BG1 and BG2. Illusionists are fine, too; Animate Dead and Skull Trap aren't strictly necessary in BG2, especially if you're dual-classing to cleric anyway and can cast Animate Dead as a cleric spell.

    I hadn't considered the LoB bonuses for familiars, but Diviners are still perfectly sound since they can still use Wands of Monster Summoning in BG1. How much HP does a familiar get you in LoB mode?

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 21
    @semiticgod LoB hp bonus is (Familiar hp * 2 + 20) / 2, so 22 hp for BG1, 34 hp for SoA and 58 hp for ToB, Imp gets you slightly less.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    edited August 22
    All right, we're into Chapter 2 stuff now. Animate Dead and Invisibility won us Chateau Irenicus and earned us our first Wand of Lightning. As it happens, I got the Claw of Kazgaroth imported, and combined with Friends, that was enough to recharge the Wand of Cloudkill! Three WoL-boosted charges from the Wand of Cloudkill and Mencar Pennypincher et al were gone, though Brennan Risling escaped (meh).

    Sunfire unfortunately fails to get multiplied by the WoL trick in my install. It doesn't break invisibility, which is nice, but not being able to sextuple the damage is kinda disappointing. That being said, I'm not actually sure the WoL trick did work with Sunfire in previous games, since I didn't actually use it on big enemies and the 100% death rate I witnessed was actually just due to a single Sunfire spell.

    I didn't have Protection from Acid (I would later get it from the nighttime fence at the far east end of the Promenade), so I couldn't complete the slaver questline because the acid trap would mean instant death (unless I used Farsight and summons to clear out the stockade and/or used Knock to get through the other door). Instead, I just went to Trademeet and used Feeblemind and Protection from Petrification to win the Efreeti Bottle. That bottle, combined with a couple of Protection from Undead scrolls, let me take down the Shade Lord. One scroll went to helping us clear out the dungeon, and another scroll went to making our 6 summoned Efreet all invisible to the Shade Lord. I actually only covered 5 of them with a WoL-boosted scroll, so I had the other one hide behind Invisibility, preventing him from contributing but also preventing the Shade Lord from triggering his Darkling Aura and robbing my Efreet of their spells due to level drain.

    Eventually I remembered there's an infinite gold exploit in my install: I use PnP restrictions on items of protection, and the way the CDTweaks mod implements that is to let you use a Ring of Protection +1 to replace itself with a different version of the Ring of Protection +1--that alternate version gives +1 to saves, but grants no save bonus. However, it can be combined with other items of protection. This replicates PnP rules, which apparently allowed save bonuses from items of protection to stack, but not AC bonuses.

    But since this tweak involves using the Create Inventory Item opcode and the item is on-self only, of course... that means we can duplicate rings, cloaks, and amulets of protection using the Wand of Lightning trick, and then sell off the extra ones. The Amulet of Protection is worth more, so after we did the trick with the ring for a while, we switched over to the amulet to make money twice as fast.

    We now have the Robe of Vecna, tons of potions and scrolls (including Freedom scrolls which I erased and re-scribed for 9,000 XP a pop), and a set of fully charged wands. We can tear apart standard enemies just by using the Wand of Lightning trick with Mordenkainen's Sword spells, the Efreeti Bottle, and the Wands of Cloudkill, Fire, and Frost.

    I think the next step is clearing Firkraag's dungeon and finding some way to get past the mind flayers in the Temple Sewers. Once I have the Wand of Wonder, I have infinite gold to recharge it and can therefore do all of my dual-classing stuff immediately.

    However, my intended dual-class, Diviner 22 to cleric 23, actually requires nearly 8 million XP to complete. If the petrification XP loop on Firkraag nets 64,000 XP per success, the success rate per charge is 12%, and every success requires an extra round spent casting Stone to Flesh, the average XP per round is only 3,840, and it involves a lot of trips back and forth to recharge the Wand of Wonder. Not counting travel times and delays, that's more than 3 hours of non-stop clicking... which is a lot of strain on my hands, not to mention the issue of boredom.

    Now I'm having second thoughts about dual-classing. It's an awful lot of time to spend on grinding alone, and I'm wondering if just going single-class, or at least dualing at Diviner 20 instead of 22 and lowering the XP requirement by 1.5 million or so, would be better for me.

    Granted, going single-classed would be pretty cool if I could pull it off. But those cleric spells are really very nice, especially since Divine Shield lets you toggle the Ravager form.

    Alternatively, I could dual-class even earlier, and give up Wish-resting to eliminate the grinding.

    @histamiini: You've done a fair amount of tanking in LoB mode. Pre-Melissan, how practical would it be to tank at about 300 HP, 50% damage resistance (Defender of Easthaven doesn't help), and 30 HP regen per round? The Cavalier couldn't hit that regeneration rate or the Ravager's undispellable HP, but its 60% undispellable resistance and 80% dispellable resistance are significantly better than the base Ravager form.

    Post edited by semiticgod on
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    Testing has found that the Ravager form isn't as deadly as I had thought. The weapon in Near Infinity supposedly sets your base THAC0 to -12, but it actually sets it to -7. The -7 comes from the STR bonus; the weapon itself apparently just sets your THAC0 to 0.

    FYI: You need to cast Divine Shield before you activate Slayer Change; not during the spell via a Spell Trigger or something. The immunity to the damage opcode blocks the Slayer Change's damage effects even though they're lingering damage effects. This means that Spell Trigger and therefore mage levels are not necessary to toggle the trick without Potions of Power. You only need to have 9 cleric levels.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 22
    @semiticgod I think it should tank most enemies, as 300 hp is pretty safe to RoR anyway. Although what's the AC? My Cavalier had -33 undispellable AC, which still helps in LoB mode pretty much against anyone, except the Drows in Sendai enclave, Abazigal, Illasera and possibly against someone else.

    Prada looted Maevars Guild hall. Hasted Skelis killed all in Suna Seni waylay. Looting Maevar's and temples netted 19k gold. Time to earn casting rights. Went to Goverment District and neutral Amnian Guards casually hacked Cowled Wizards including Zallanora, after I summoned them with Invisibility. Didn't make any special spells, but I did make 10k from the loot.


    Bought reputation to 15. Picked up Potion Case and Crimson Dart +3 from Watchers Keep with Invisibility. Leveled up doing the Bridge murder guest, got Mislead. Picked Amulet +2 from Hidden Reguge guest. Summons handled the Slaver guest. Graveyard guests. Rayic, Protection from Fire and repeated the Fireball trap. Maevar pre-charmed and Skelis wiped all.


    Another level up and got Protection from Acid and Death Fog. Then something funny. PfA, Mislead outside Prebek home and went in casually casting three Death Fogs and killing all. That seems pretty op. :D


    Finished Harper hold and sold my loot. I got already 85k gold and 18 rep so I bought Robe of Vecna. Neb outside Mislead, 3x Death Fogs almost killed him, but Skelis finished it. Accompanied Rasaad to City Gates to start his guest. Summons killed Hammerfell for the map in Amphitheater. Did the easy trials in Heretic Temple and got Gem of Seeing and Cloak of Atonement, among other loot.


    Bought Limited Wish scroll and used stopwatch to execute the permanent ability trick for Mind Flayer form. Pushing End Dialogue and stopwatch at the same time, and pressing Mindflayer form at 301.5s retains the ability. Btw, very easy method that always succeeds: Limited Wish Shapechange, pause immediatelly after End Dialogue, press desired form, CTRL+T one hour and unpause.


    5 hasted Skelis easily handled the Windspear Paladins and the bandits. Tazok Orcs were Fogged casually from Mislead. Skelis then handled Tazok. Conster was first softened with Death Fogs, until Skelis wiped him off. Sewer gang met the same fate. Death Fog and Melf's Acid arrows got Mekrath. After looting De'Arnise I had 105k gold.


    Only Pebblecrusher and Orc Slicer barely surived Mislead Fogs, although summons still were barely enough to kill them. Buffed up with stacked Spirit Armors, Speed, PfU and Mislead and picked up Wand of Wonder from the Mind Flayer base. Was slightly worried when they started hitting with magic attacks, but luckily they only took half of my hp. Bought bunch of Stone to Flesh scrolls and started Firkraag xp-loop. Got eight loops from the wand, and got level 16 which got Simulacrum and Spell Trigger. I can now cast Mislead and 8 Death Fogs, doing 640 fixed acid damage. :)


    Decided to side the Vampires as I felt Thieves were easier to kill. Skelis casually killed Paina for Kitthix and Pale Green Ioun stone, which now gives me 77 hp. First guest easily handled by my summons. Second guest more summons and Death Fogs from Mislead. Lower level landing Fogged, then 5 Hasted Skelis did the rest, although I needed multiple rests. Death Fog trigger does now break Invisibility when cast on self, atleast with SCS. Turned Linvail's room to a gas chamber that killed all. Level 17, and after spending another WoW, level 18. This was the mother of all level ups, got Chain Contingency, Time Stop and Planetar.


    Captain Dennis mob was gassed for the Boomerang Dagger +2. Time for Twisted Rune, PfU, 2x Mind Focus, Power and with 3 apr Boomerang Dagger I was able to casually range Shangalar pretty quickly hitting 15 and above. Improved Haste, Enchanted Weapon (Shyressa), Time Stop and 8 apr Mindie quickly devoured Revanek and Shyressa, although Vaxall used Shador Door during the Time Stop. Oracle to reveal them, and Vaxall and Laylene were both dead before the second Time Stop was over. Got Staff of Magi...


    Post edited by histamiini on
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    I just died to Plath Rededge due to an Unholy Blight. I had enabled double damage in BG2 since I had had it enabled in BG1 for consistency's sake, and the double damage was exactly enough to wipe out my 34 HP.

    HP is such an important buffer, especially when double damage is enabled. Spell Immunity could have blocked Unholy Blight, but it's so easy to assume an enemy cleric is a non-issue outside of Slay Living or Harm.

    I think I'm out for now. The metagame has been worked out and I can work my way back up, but the little mistakes and restarts are just too much, and the execution is getting harder and harder on my hands. Every new run requires an incredible amount of mouse inputs, and I can't keep doing this without hurting my hands.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,526
    I've started a level 1 run in Insane mode and I just beat BG1 and SoD very easily in one day. It's so much faster when you can rely on the Wand of Fire to win fights instead of the Wand of Monster Summoning. I'm still working with a Diviner, since the lack of a familiar is truly irrelevant for a character that will have 1 HP for the entire saga, instead of just the first two games.

    Although it's a mod-introduced exploit and I kind of prefer to use exploits that don't rely on certain mods being installed, I'm going to be abusing the infinite items of protection trick for infinite gold in BG2 just so I can bomb the crap out of stuff with fully-charged wands.

    Pro tip on a level 1 run: while you can import the Claw of Kazgaroth into BG2, you can't get it until the Metaspell Influence Amulet room, which means there's no way of getting it without fighting some critters. While a regular run with a 3 CON, level 1 mage could eventually reach that point by using Horror to scare away duergar and pave the way to the Claw, it is extremely unsafe for a no-reload run, since a mage with 2 HP is not going to be able to fight through several waves of duergar... unless maybe you can summon a Fairy/Pseudo Dragon to cast Invisibility 10' Radius and then let it die. I don't know when a dead familiar means a dead mage.

    If that could work, you'd actually need to use the CON tome at the end of SoD just so you could take an extra hit to CON at the start of BG2. The familiar could be used to lure the duergar out of the hallway into the otyugh room so you can slip past to the Claw of Kazgaroth and then hit 1 CON and 1 HP again. Though the only long-term benefit is a slightly better ring you can't unequip.

    If that couldn't work, you'll need to use Vials of Mysterious Liquid to drop your base CON to 1 for a full-time level 1 run; the Claw of Kazgaroth is not an option. In my case, I went with the Claw of Kazgaroth all the way past Belhifet, then drank two Vials of Mysterious Liquid (and immediately rested after each so the poison wouldn't kill me!) right after escaping the jail. That way, I could keep the save bonuses from the Claw for all of BG1 and SoD and then switch to 1 base CON for BG2... though the jelly form makes saving throws pretty much irrelevant anyway, once you reach Baldur's Gate.

    So, I'm not working on an LoB run right now, but I'll post any findings that would better inform a level 1 LoB run (though my reliance on the WoL trick may make a lot of my gameplay irrelevant to other players' strategy).

    I think the Good path in the trial of Selfishness in Hell is suicidal for a level 1 character, by the way, since losing 2 maximum HP would put you at -1. I think I've seen a circumstance where negative HP also meant immunity to damage, but I'm not sure if that still holds. And even if it does, if you're using the Tear of Bhaal trick to improve your lousy saving throws, you're probably just going to be doing the trial of Greed and then skipping right to the Slayer.

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,128
    semiticgod wrote: »
    Pro tip on a level 1 run: while you can import the Claw of Kazgaroth into BG2, you can't get it until the Metaspell Influence Amulet room, which means there's no way of getting it without fighting some critters. While a regular run with a 3 CON, level 1 mage could eventually reach that point by using Horror to scare away duergar and pave the way to the Claw, it is extremely unsafe for a no-reload run, since a mage with 2 HP is not going to be able to fight through several waves of duergar... unless maybe you can summon a Fairy/Pseudo Dragon to cast Invisibility 10' Radius and then let it die. I don't know when a dead familiar means a dead mage.
    Couldn't you use the Slime form and summons to jump the wall over to the room with the Portal key? Or does the Slime form get removed upon importing? You will have to get Jaheira to join you if you want to summon anything, which would break the solo thing, but I don't have any other ideas.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,321
    A wild mage would have other options in the dungeon, e.g. going invisible. However, with relatively high saving throws there would be a small risk of petrifying yourself by trying that ...

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