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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge vs Bhaal´s Cataclysm

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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    By the way: Potions of Heroism are a great alternative to Potions of Power. They're half as effective, but they last for 100 rounds instead of just 40. I don't know if they'd replace Potions of Power for normal tanks, but they should be fine for the Archer, who benefits from the long duration since they need to bomb themselves with Arrows of Detonation multiple times, tens of rounds apart.

    I've done the math and a single-classed level 10 Archer with Corinth's Bow, grandmastery, Meilum's bracers, the Helm of Balduran, 25 DEX from Potions of Mind Focusing, Cloverleaf, the chant ring (whatever it's called), demons as a racial enemy, and a Potion of Heroism/Power to improved THAC0 will deal 11.775 damage per attack roll to Belhifet on average. That's 700 damage for 60 Arrows +3 or 942 damage for a stack of 80 arrows. It should weaken Belhifet enough to finish him off by tanking.
    HarpagornishistamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    Heroism are way to go, even tanking, with 1 Power for better Thac0, there's also Medal of Valor for another +2 Thac0. Btw, does Cloverleaf Luck stack with Ring of Purity Chant?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @histamiini: They stack with each other. But the ring won't stack with the Chant spell, nor will Cloverleaf stack with the Luck spell.
    histamiiniHarpagornis
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The Medal of Valor is an important point. Lon's Amulet grants Bless, which is better for Arrows of Detonation since THAC0 isn't relevant.

    I also considered the Modron Heart, but it's no good for the final fight. The Modron Heart grants +2 to hit, damage, and saving throws against chaotic critters, but the enemies are all baatezu and therefore Lawful Evil.
    histamiiniHarpagornis
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Okay, the Archer/Mage is looking a little better when I give it some better items. With the Medal of Valor, Meilum's bracers, the Helm of Balduran, Cloverleaf, Ring of Purity, Corinth's Bow, Arrows of Fire +2, 25 DEX from Potions of Mind Focusing, mastery in longbows, 8 Archer levels, and a Potion of Heroism, the Archer/Mage has a THAC0 of -9. With a single Arrow of Dispelling, we can take away Belhifet's Improved Invisbility and reduce his effective AC from -16 to -12, giving us a 90% hit rate instead of 70%. An Oil of Speed will give us 4 APR and our damage per hit is 18 damage. Combine that with Belhifet's 50% resistance to missile damage, and we should be able to deal

    0.9 * 4 * 0.5 * 18 = 32.4 damage per round assuming no APR is lost to kiting. Belhifet dies in only 36 rounds!

    However, when I correct the math, we still have a net negative damage output vs. Belhifet's many summons. We still need Arrows of Detonation. But when I factor in Cloverleaf and the Ring of Purity, it does 16 damage per hit, not 14.5. This means we can wipe out an army of Cornugons with only 20 Arrows of Detonation on average. Better still, Belhifet should only summon 18 critters in 36 rounds, which, when combined with the opening enemies, leaves us with less than two dozen targets even when Belhifet croaks.

    This is a simplified picture, and in the actual fight, we'll lose lots of time to kiting, using Arrows of Dispelling, and summoning decoys via the Wand of Monster Summoning. But it's a much prettier picture than the one I envisioned before. We could probably take down Belhifet with only 40 Arrows of Detonation.

    It's possible to coast through much of BG1 and SoD with minimal optimizations just by relying on a few low-input, high-output options like the Wand of Monster Summoning. However, Belhifet's unlimited Gate spells (at least in my install) mean that the player is practically doomed to lose a war of attrition, and therefore the critical period for defeating Belhifet is within the first 50 rounds. This means we have to absolutely maximize the player's damage output just to survive.
    Grond0StummvonBordwehrhistamiiniHarpagornis
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 328
    edited January 2018
    Archer->Mage seems to be amazing combo instead of plain archer for LOB/SCS runs. Mage spells combined with decent Thac0 and save vs spell reduction. Called shot also works with MMM and energy blades which is super nice... interesting combo I might want to try out myself. Not sure about level 8 dual though for full trillogy run as final thac0 might be too low for effective appliance of called shot although level 8 gets +2/+2 archer bonus and with racial enemy another +4/+4 which is equivalent of lvl 14 fighter so not bad at all. Energy blades also give +10 thac0 so maybe cloud work.

    I assume it's 'more dual options' within one of the Tweaks mod.
    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Myrag: I'm using my own Universal Archer Kit mod, which is functionally identical to the Generic Archer kit from the Tactics mod and the Marksman kit from Might and Guile. It's a fighter kit and therefore has no racial enemy.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018

    Okay, the Archer/Mage is looking a little better when I give it some better items. With the Medal of Valor, Meilum's bracers, the Helm of Balduran, Cloverleaf, Ring of Purity, Corinth's Bow, Arrows of Fire +2, 25 DEX from Potions of Mind Focusing, mastery in longbows, 8 Archer levels, and a Potion of Heroism, the Archer/Mage has a THAC0 of -9. With a single Arrow of Dispelling, we can take away Belhifet's Improved Invisbility and reduce his effective AC from -16 to -12, giving us a 90% hit rate instead of 70%. An Oil of Speed will give us 4 APR and our damage per hit is 18 damage. Combine that with Belhifet's 50% resistance to missile damage, and we should be able to deal

    0.9 * 4 * 0.5 * 18 = 32.4 damage per round assuming no APR is lost to kiting. Belhifet dies in only 36 rounds!

    However, when I correct the math, we still have a net negative damage output vs. Belhifet's many summons. We still need Arrows of Detonation. But when I factor in Cloverleaf and the Ring of Purity, it does 16 damage per hit, not 14.5. This means we can wipe out an army of Cornugons with only 20 Arrows of Detonation on average. Better still, Belhifet should only summon 18 critters in 36 rounds, which, when combined with the opening enemies, leaves us with less than two dozen targets even when Belhifet croaks.

    This is a simplified picture, and in the actual fight, we'll lose lots of time to kiting, using Arrows of Dispelling, and summoning decoys via the Wand of Monster Summoning. But it's a much prettier picture than the one I envisioned before. We could probably take down Belhifet with only 40 Arrows of Detonation.

    It's possible to coast through much of BG1 and SoD with minimal optimizations just by relying on a few low-input, high-output options like the Wand of Monster Summoning. However, Belhifet's unlimited Gate spells (at least in my install) mean that the player is practically doomed to lose a war of attrition, and therefore the critical period for defeating Belhifet is within the first 50 rounds. This means we have to absolutely maximize the player's damage output just to survive.

    But isn't tanking with Martyr's Morningstar and like Hydra still the way to go? Quick count with onhand Thac0 and damage.

    Max melee Thac0 Archer8->Mage

    13 Base
    6 Violet
    3 Power
    1 Medal
    0 Helm
    -1 Bracers
    -3 Weapons
    -7 Racial Enemy
    -8 Bless (spell)

    80% hit probability (with on hand)

    Damage

    Violet +14
    Bracers +2
    Bless +1 (spell)
    Racial enemy +4
    Martyr's Morningstar 4-9

    27,5 average damage per hit, 3 apr * 0,80 = 2,4 average apr, 25 DR, 27,5*2,4*0,75 = 49,5 average damage per round (not factoring +2 offhand Thac0, nor luck or chant)

    Bel 1130hp / 49,5 = 23 rounds (excluding regen)

    That's even without the critical hit bonus of 170+27,5 damage, which is actually average 10 damage per hit.

    Racial Enemy makes Archer8 a good melee tanking candidate actually.

    EDIT: ok just read that you don't actually have Racial Enemy.
    Post edited by histamiini on
    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    Very interesting points @semiticgod and i agree to nearly everything - except for the last one. I tested Big B again and - yes - he is using gate continuesly. But you are not loosing the battle to gating as long as you have invisibility potions. I have fought Big B so often and even when hitting 100 rounds - with nearly 40 demons hunting me - i (nearly) never got overwhelmed. Like @histamiini stated earlier invisibility will you protect from anything but Erinyes and Big B himself. The Archers will get surrounded by its own troop and the teleporting of Big B you can use to your own advantage. With Boots of Speed + Oil of Speed you just have time your movement so that Big B will teleport near you when the big horde of demons is a little bit away. This gives more than enough time to get in one hit and drinking one invisibility potion before the demons are porting at you. This has worked up to round 110 for me - you just have to be careful. And quick! :D
    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    Best melee options vs. Belhifet

    Bonus Thac0 items

    80% base Power Potion
    -7 Violet Potion
    -2 Medal of Valor
    -1 Helm of Balduran
    -1 Legacy of Masters
    -1 Bless (spell)
    -1 Aid (spell)
    -3 Weapons (+3)
    -3 Cavalier Bonus
    -4 Ranger Racial Enemy
    (Weapon Profencies 0,-1,-3)

    Bonus Damage items

    +14 Violet Potion
    +2 Legacy of Masters
    +1 Bless (spell)
    +1 Aid (spell)
    +3 Cavalier Bonus
    +4 Ranger Racial Enemy
    (Weapon Profencies 0,2,5)

    Bonus apr items

    Oil of Speed (+0,5-1)

    Ranger lv9 -11 Thac0, +23 Damage Bonus, 4 apr
    Cavalier lv9 -10 Thac0, +22 Damage Bonus, 4 apr
    Fighter lv10 -9 Thac0, +21 Damage Bonus, 4 apr (off hand +2 Thac0 if Grand Mastery on weapon)
    ...
    F/M/C lv8/9/8 -7 Thac0, +20 Damage Bonus, 4 apr
    Archer lv9 -10 Thac0, +21 Damage Bonus, 3 apr

    Archer is pretty similar to F/M/C in melee vs. Bel, which was the last tank run I did. And I still maintain that Cavalier is the best against Bel, because of the immunities to fear (no Bel's Fear/Durlag's Goblet hassle) and poison.
    Post edited by histamiini on
    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornissemiticgoddess
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    PfU destroyed Bodhi's Sanctum and now I'm debating what to do next, three options which I want/need to do anyway.

    1. Go to Asylum
    2. Start grinding Watcher's Keep levels, I need Staff of Ram to hit Bel's Absolutely Immunity
    3. Twisted Rune, I want that Staff of Magi

    Twisted Rune probably would be best left until I get Time Stop from the Underdark, and I would like to have more money before going, to buy everything I need from the trip. So maybe I continue Watchers Keep. Maze-level will probably be our doom, the last march of Six... :#
    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    Finally i got a bit time for playing on with Krell.

    Reaching level 10 wasnt hard after killing a lot of Ghasts in Durlags Tower, clearing the coast from Sirenes and farming five more Ankhegs. As always the summons - mostly Lions for max dps - did a good job beating the enemies into the ground. Time for the mainquest!

    Krell sneaked down to Mulahey using Pixie Dust and placed two wolves and three Nymphs around him to stun him into the ground while Krell was waiting around the corner (no talking trigger) until the evil priest went down. Tranzig followed in the same manner even though lions were here the better choice.

    The Bandit Camp was a lot of fun as Krell let his lions slaughter the whole camp. The Nymphs dominated Taurgosz right at the beginning followed by Call Lightning and Hold Person. This gave the lions an easy time taking out even the Elites as they are the only one that can hurt them with arrows. Once the main groups were down Krell rested in the south knowing that this would trigger the group in the tent (which was already waiting outside). He used two bears two lure Venkt and friends far away from the tent so Krell could sneak by without fearing that they would catch him inside the tent once invivisibility had broken. With the documents in his hands Krell casted Pixie Dust again and sneaked away.

    Cloakwood was skipped hard so it did not take long until Krell was standig right before Davaeorn where he went for the cheesiest option: Call in three Nymphs, cast Far Sight and let them dominate Davaeorn (three tries), switch his weapon to bare hands and let the Battle Horrors take him down in no time. That was easy!

    Not to forget: He killed some innocents to drop reputation so he got Horror as his next power! The city will be next and after that Krell will hopefully have some fun with the Ogre Mage ambush near Candlekeep! :D

    Slythe went down in fashion vs lion & bear while the nymphs healed up and insect swarm was ticking. Poor assassin - he never had a chance.

    The Palace Ambush was easier than ever cause both Insect Swarms catched all Dopplegangers while the nymphs healed up as best as they can. This time the lion & bear soaked up most damage while the dukes were both at nearly full health once the mage dropped down. And again Far Sight proved to be very helpful to get a clear view of the whole battlefield.

    Only Sarevok left!!
    Post edited by Harpagornis on
    ArctodusStummvonBordwehrGrond0histamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    Thanks to reloads Krell tricked Sarevok and friends badly this time! :D

    1. Dispel Magic to get rid of haste and invisibility
    2. Animal Summoning II for two bears and one panther who brought down Semaj and Tazok
    3. Killed Semaj and Tazok right before triggering the talking so Diarmid and Angelo still ported in
    4. Waited until spell protections expired
    5. Used Spirit Lion as decoy to let Nymhps dominate Angelo and two more to dominate Diarmid
    6. Let the Lions + Diarmid + Angelo wreak havoc upon Sarevok
    7. Retreated before Angelo + Diarmid turned hostile again waiting for Sarevok to take both down
    8. Pixie Dust to lure Sarevok away from Skeleton Warriors who were parked near spawning point to get room for kiting
    9. With Sarevok down to 518 HP both Lions had no problem to take him down while Krell was playing the decoy - too funny

    As Mental Domination is a bit unreliable this tactic is not recommended for no-reload-runs... :D

    However: SoD will be next. Lets see how good Krell - and his summons - will be doing there... ;)
    ArctodushistamiiniStummvonBordwehrGrond0
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    Six cleared the 2nd level of Watchers Keep with the help of Skelis and Deva, nothing too hard. Then Chromatic Demon, definitely one of the hardest opponents in the game, so long ass grind was in the menu:

    Chromatic Demon

    500 hp
    12 hp/r regen
    100 DR

    Only suspectable to elemental damage per form:
    - Ice is vulnerable to Fire.
    - Fire is vulnerable to Ice.
    - Slime is vulnerable to Electricity.
    - Air is vulnerable to Acid and Poison

    Immunity to everything,

    except Wand of Wonder petrification (0 MR), and with 5th strike he was done. B)
    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehrGrond0semiticgoddess
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    The SoD starting dungeon is so much fun for a poverty Druid... :D

    As Krell started with 193k XP he reached level 11 right after Porios surrendered so he was now able to call in one Fire Elemental as well.

    Against the Undead downstairs he used: Two Lions for DPS, one Bear for tanking, one Greater Fire Elemental for burning and one Nymph for healing. The trick was to use the corner and corridor to minimze the number of undead while focusing on the big skeletons first as they are the only one who can hurt the summons. The shadowed souls are no danger as long as there are wounded allies around that they will try to heal up first before going offensive. While Krell only casted one Insect Swarm before going invisible the summons cleared the whole area without any death - superb!

    Once the way was clear Krell sneaked through, rested once and called in three spirit wolves and one fire elemental who surrounded Korlasz. Insect Swarm was timed so that it hit the mage right after talking and all Krell had to do was to go invisible again waiting for Korlasz dropping to injured. Funny: Once he moved in again after casting Pixie Dust Korlasz was already down to nearly dead. LOL. The Mage surrendered after some short talking openening the way to Baldurs Gate once more - what a powerful start!

    The Undead Dwarven Mines could be interesting... :D
    Grond0ArctodushistamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    Watchers Keep Maze level. First area I met the Succubus who offered to take me to the end with a kiss, sounded like a bargain to me. Aesgareth, charmed the thief Tiefling and put him in the opposite corner, 5 hasted Skelis murdered him, same for the female Cleric. Then I dominated the male Cleric for the same fate. Then tried to charm the mage Tiefling, but stopped after 100 or so tries. She has save vs. breath 2 and 25 MR which should still give me 1/26 chance, but it didn't work.

    I'm thinking putting both the mage and Aesgareth under Sim PfM and just melee them down. But before that I probably should play for the Wish spell? Anyone know if I can play without permanent penalties? I know that Deck of Many Things is useless in no-reload, if you don't want to gamble your life, literally. B)
    Harpagornis
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    @histamiini I assume you were trying to charm the mage with the nymph cloak as you referred to a save vs breath. However, the cloak gives a +1 adjustment to the saving throw, so it wouldn't work. If you were using the mage domination spell that saves vs spell at -2.
    histamiiniHarpagornissemiticgoddess
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    @Grond0 Damn, yeah with the Nymph Cloak. Does every item have +1 penalty when it isn't mentioned? She has save vs. Spell -1 so Mental Domination doesn't work either. I charmed her in my Cavalier playthrough though with something, I know that much, but was still in for world of hurt, so maybe PfM is the easier bet here. After I study about the Wish gambling.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    @histamiini a +1 adjustment is rare, though I thought it did mention that in the item description. I imagine your cavalier also used the cloak, but benefited from the -2 specialist mage penalty bug to allow that to be successful.
    HarpagornishistamiinisemiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    @Grond0 It doesn't say it in the description. Oh yes specialist bug that was it, knew there was something but couldn't remember it, good that it's fixed for 2.5.

    So I've been checking that Gambling with Aesgareth out.

    You gamble for

    1. For way out, if you lose, Aesgareth leaves and you miss Deck of Many Things, Wish and Spectral Brand
    2. Experience, if you lose, you lose 50000 xp
    3. Vitality, if you lose, your hp is set at 90% permanently

    Effects from drawing the cards are curses which can be cured with Remove Curse. So you should always choose to gamble "experience", as you can get it back, and that way you can gamble for the Wish and Spectral Brand without risk. Even if you lose you can still kill him for the Gem and Deck of Many Things. Hopefully I got everything right...

    Grond0semiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    Holy cow - the Dwarven Mines were such a walk of pain without PfU...

    The start was easy as the lesser undead proved to be no challenge for the summons once they had killed the dwarves. But then i got surprised by the umber hulk group in the SE that - for whatever reason - destroyed the fire elementals and spirit summons in no time. All Krell could do was to quickly grab the amulet and get out again.

    The next level was all about attack -> retreat -> rest -> attack. The first groups and the bronze sentry went down after several recasts so only one big group in front of the Lich was left. This one proved to be nearly impossible as the number of shadowed souls and big skeletons were able to clear the summons rather quickly - only the Fire Elementals could hold the ground for a bit. But not long enough. Krell retreat-rested several times but was unable to get rid of the most dangerous enemies therefore he killed the Bonebats only as they could attack through invisibility. The tactic now was to use the summons to lure the enemy away from the Lich so Krell could sneak by to trigger the talking. After some repositioning it worked and Krell pleased the Lich with all five amulets and it agreed to help later on in Coalition Camp. Good!

    As level 12 is already reached its time to move on to Bridgefort... ;)
    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    @Harpagornis Yeah I remember that SE corner with my Cavalier playthrough where I got stomped always, haven't been there since. :D
    Harpagornis
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    Oh, the reason seems simple @histamiini when taking a look at their stats:

    The Umber Hulks deal 22-40 damage and got 4 APR. That hurts quite a lot! :D
    histamiini
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    Well I got it mostly right, as you can actually play twice for the same item with Aesgareth, I lost the first one for Experience-Wish, but won the second Experience-Wish gamble. Then Simulacrum casted PfM on the Tiefling Mage and Aesgareth both, after which they were meleed down pretty easily and I got the gem and Deck of Many Things. Hmm should I...
    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    Well yeah, that would be great thing to stream. :D

    You can fight against some of the ill effects by investing all your money, and drinking Invulnerability potions, but hmm, need to study this out too.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited January 2018
    I may have cracked it, you can block effects with Spell Immunity except STAR. So to get risk free draw for some positive effects:

    1st Draw, SI:Abjuration, SI:Evocation, SI:Conjuration
    2nd Draw, SI:Alteration, SI:Enchantment, SI:Conjuration
    3rd Draw, SI:Necromancy, SI:Conjuration

    or 3rd Draw just SI:Conjuration if you want to risk fighting a Death Shade for a shot at 10 hp.

    Deck of Many Things

    1st Draw

    Bad
    - DONJON Abjuration
    - RUIN Evocation

    Good
    - EURYALE Evocation
    - FLAMES Conjuration
    - GEM Evocation
    - JESTER Evocation

    2nd Draw (1st Bad)

    Bad
    - VOID Alteration

    Good
    - KEY Evocation
    - STAR None
    - ROGUE Enchantment
    - SUN Evocation
    - VIZIER Abjuration

    2nd Draw (1st Good)

    Bad
    - VOID Alteration
    - MAGICIAN Alteration

    Good
    - KNIGHT Conjuration
    - ROGUE Enchantment
    - SUN Evocation
    - VIZIER Abjuration

    3rd Draw (if any Bad)

    - SKULL Necromancy
    - THRONE Evocation
    - MOON Necromancy
    - FOOL Necromancy
    - COMET Evocation
    - ERINYES Evocation

    3rd Draw (if all Good)

    - SKULL Necromancy
    - MOON Necromancy
    - TALONS Conjuration
    - FOOL Necromancy
    - COMET Evocation
    - ERINYES Evocation
    Post edited by histamiini on
    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornisGrond0
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    Okay, Coastway Crossing is finished and Krell moves on with 400k XP. He did most of the side quests but thanks to the summons he stomped any opposition into the ground. Well - except for some parts of the Dwarven Mines. Thats something for later - maybe! :D

    So far the only reloads happened in the bottlenecks i descibed earlier:

    Ogre Ambush at Candlekeep (1x) as Krell got affected by Horror. Calling in a Spirit Summon does not help here as the gating takes too long so none of the Ogres are targeting the summon. So far this one remains pure dice luck - at least without Rage! :D

    Sarevok (4x) was mainly cause i tried to double dominate Diarmid & Angelo. With bad luck this will take even more time so its not advised to use it for no-reload runs. The question is: Should one use the Nymphs to dominate Angelo or Diarmid? As Angelo cannot kill the spirit summons i always went for Diarmid who can shoot everyone down in no time. Seems like the right path. No? But even 4x Mental Domination on Diarmid will fail sometimes so this fight is still some kind of gamble. Not to mention the damn Skeleton Warriors than can ruin everything even when Sarevok is out of living friends...

    With reloads however the challenge so far feels really easy and sometimes it even does not feel like a challenge at all. Thats bad. On the other hand Big B would always be THE killer for any no-reload-poverty run as the number of rolls that have to go in your favour is just crazy. If i can get through this with less than 100 tries i would still call me lucky... :D

    But what else can be done? No-reload for everything but the final bosses? Looks like a compromise - but i dont like it. Maybe @histamiini can create me a poverty-tank-build for Big B even though i dont believe in it. o:)
    histamiiniArctodusStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Testing confirmed that charming Crusaders and sending them off to their deaths at Bridgefort will turn the whole camp hostile.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    Its far easier to charm nearly all of the camp with Nymph Cloak @semiticgod and let them fight the named ones afterwards.

    Did this once and it was a bloody mess! :D
    Arctodus
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