@Victor_Creed_SFV I've watched some of your youtube videos and followed you on twitch, entertaining! Finally someone streaming a game I actually play
I've been away for a while and got the itch again, and want to try it with a wholly different build. Shadowdancer into fighter, I think it will be good for most of the game, but I think fights like the ducal palace will be problematic, and I've not played enough of SoD to know if its possible to complete without being able to set snares. My plan is to dual to fighter at lvl 13, which is in SoA. What do you guys think? Are there ways to cheese those fights without traps/spells?
@Victor_Creed_SFV I've watched some of your youtube videos and followed you on twitch, entertaining! Finally someone streaming a game I actually play
I've been away for a while and got the itch again, and want to try it with a wholly different build. Shadowdancer into fighter, I think it will be good for most of the game, but I think fights like the ducal palace will be problematic, and I've not played enough of SoD to know if its possible to complete without being able to set snares. My plan is to dual to fighter at lvl 13, which is in SoA. What do you guys think? Are there ways to cheese those fights without traps/spells?
Awesome man, especially since we both post on this forum. Main problem in the palace is gonna be keeping Lila and Belt alive but if you have patience enough just charm the mage and maybe the shaman with Algernon's/nymphs, go outside and rest to shorten the charm time a little and then park the 2 charmed nobles in a sve room. Once all Doppelgangers are destroyed get the charmed nobles next to you and set the game on autopause at enemy sight.
Idk enough about SoD but as long as you don't no reload it should be fine, but @Harpagornis is the SoD expert here.
Thanks to @JuliusBorisov who made me aware of the instant re-stealth after backstab. My Shadowdancer has finished the xp loop at lvl 9 almost ~ almost at cap. I decided to save some stone to flesh scrolls for the party with the slashing girdle. I found the easiest way to keep the charmed basilisk in ranged attack mode is by giving it move commands, and if it petrifies something send it away immidiately. With some cheese I petrified the whole party, and stone to fleshed Peter and the woman, for the girdle and some nice potions. While I'm typing this I'm waiting for Drizzt to die, after I sell his stuff I will buy myself a nice quarterstaff and armour of shadows, and be pretty much set for the rest of the game.
So now I'm using backstab a lot I noticed something, and wonder if it's normal. I do triple backstab damage at lvl 10, and my damage roll is 5-10 (in inventory screen) wielding a quarterstaff. But the minimum damage I do is 11, which seems impossible, shouldn't it be 15? does the engine roll fractions? because 11/3 is 3.666, how exactly is the backstab damage calculated?
@billy_pilgrim: I can think of two explanations: you have a high Strength bonus that's giving you that minimum roll of 5--STR bonuses don't get multiplied during backstabs, though all other bonuses do--or you have Item Revisions installed, which penalizes your backstab multiplier.
Thanks to @JuliusBorisov who made me aware of the instant re-stealth after backstab. My Shadowdancer has finished the xp loop at lvl 9 almost ~ almost at cap. I decided to save some stone to flesh scrolls for the party with the slashing girdle. I found the easiest way to keep the charmed basilisk in ranged attack mode is by giving it move commands, and if it petrifies something send it away immidiately. With some cheese I petrified the whole party, and stone to fleshed Peter and the woman, for the girdle and some nice potions. While I'm typing this I'm waiting for Drizzt to die, after I sell his stuff I will buy myself a nice quarterstaff and armour of shadows, and be pretty much set for the rest of the game.
Are you using AI stealth for that? I always knew shadowdancers are awesome but wasn't aware you could do that. On the other hand I noticed AI stealth works earlier than manual but never thought of combining that with shadowdancer.
Ah nvm I just found his post. That's a really chees... um awesome strategy I like it.
@Victor_Creed_SFV Its pretty fun, and quite easy to pull off (When you stleath just click detect traps and wait until the stealth button becomes available again, you will be stealthed for quite a while after it becomes available, backstab, and repeat ) On LoB enemies have such high hp they can tank quite a few backstabs; seeing those high damage numbers is always fun. @semiticgod I figured it out, praise be to the subreddit, the calculation is ((Base damage + Proficiency bonus + item bonus, bard song etc) x backstabbing multiplier + strength bonus ) x critical hit + additional weapon damage. so I'm consistently rolling natural 1s + 1 + 1 x 3 + 2 = 11. But, my highest with a 3x multiplier has been 94 which makes absolutely no sense using the above calculation.
As far as the build goes, I know @Harpagornis mentioned a xp loop in SoA but I think it requires shield of balduran and I don't think I can use it if I dual to fighter from thief, so I'm going to have to figure out how to get my dual class levels back in SoA.
@semiticgod I figured it out, praise be to the subreddit, the calculation is ((Base damage + Proficiency bonus + item bonus, bard song etc) x backstabbing multiplier + strength bonus ) x critical hit + additional weapon damage. so I'm consistently rolling natural 1s + 1 + 1 x 3 + 2 = 11. But, my highest with a 3x multiplier has been 94 which makes absolutely no sense using the above calculation.
@billy_pilgrim are you sure you're comparing like with like? The 94 would be possible for instance if by the time you got that you were using the +3 staff and bracers of weapon expertise.
Well, 1:30 in the morning, bored, see if there's anything online. Oh...bg:ee challenges, those are always fun. Let's see, solo, no-reload, all Druids, Obama, Legacy of Bhaal, oh...what's this? Legacy of Bhaal...with SCS, that's impossible, I barely beat Siege of Dragonspear on Hard, let alone LoB. Oh...and no party members, in case you would like to kick yourself while your down. Well, no one's ever going to do this...wait...is that...69 pages of dedicated work to a remake of game that's almost 20 years old? And an extremely in-depth look on how the mechanics of the game are still so enthralling as they used to be, and people actually did it! Men and women beat this challenge!? Well, out of respect for all of you brain ninjas out there, I decided that the only way to repay your courtesy was by using your info to also beat the game...with SCS...on LoB...by myself. Now, to the point of this, the class I chose was a Fighter-Mage-Thief, Elf, with two proficiency points in two weapon style and long swords, 18/50 strength, 19 Dex and 17 con, 18 int, and 15 charisma (and 3 wisdom). Was this smart? Should have just done Fighter Mage? Monk? Fighter-mage cleric? Or just Thief? I got to the Friendly Arm Inn somewhat alright, and after two hours and one war of attrition I defeated that assassin outside the entrance by using a combo of one magic missile and hide in shadows. Am I doing alright? Is it okay that I took 2 hours to get to the Friendly Arm Inn? Am I taking up way to much room typing? Regardless of whether or not you care to answer, know that this thread on a forum that's somewhere on the interwebs is truly a delight to read, apologies for writing the entire book of War and Peace on a forum. Thank you for your service. P.S. Is Find Familiar a good spell to use here? It raises your Hp by quite a lot, making life just that easier, but now I have to take care of my pet that isn't that good unless you chose Lawful Good alignment.
@stupid_puns welcome to the challenge! There are a ton of different ways to play this challenge, and every encounter requires thought. That's what got me hooked, well, for your first run I think you're doing a good job! Persistence is king. I usually head straight for beregost to get Algernon's cloak, its super meta gamey, but for this challenge makes things a lot easier. Use that to charm the mage, empty his spell book and then proceed to hack him to death in anyway you see fit. You will definetely need the cloak for several more fights, a personal favourite of mine is charming clerics, in LoB they are high level and their summon skeletons kick serious butt.
As far as class/build goes there are a lot of options, your choice is absolutely fine. I would also suggest you do the xp loop in Mutamins just to get your levels up, this makes the next part of the game a lot easier. The blindness spell works great on LoB, but there are several spells that don't work anymore, like the wand of sleep, or rod of paralysis; all useless! They might work with greater malison + doom combo though. Find familiar is great because the pet gets the LoB hp bonus, and can actually tank quite a bit for you, depending on your alignment. You can also pick it up and put it in your pocket!
@Stupid_Puns I usually run something like this -> FAI (pick up the ring for $$ or if you're mage to use it) -> Beregost (do Marl and Firebead + Algernon's Cloak) -> Tenya and the fisherman (I usually just kill sonner straight away so I don't have to backtrack) that will get you to level 3. Then I usually do Shoal the nereid, for the 5k xp, this requires a lot of kiting, and can be tedious; but I enjoy it so I always do that. By this time you should be level 4-5 depending on class or multiclass. The early hp you get from those levels make you're life a lot easier. Next I donate some money to the church to compensate for the rep loss for icing Algernon, and then I do more easy rep quests, like the two ogres south of beregost. Oh! And super important on LoB, Drizzt is broken because LoB sets his attacks to 6 which is impossible, so he actually doesn't attack and the gnolls will always kill him if you stand aside. Easy 2x +3 scimitars and nice armour, good to use or for selling. After that head to mutamins, and finish the game
Well then Mr. @billy_pilgrim you crazy wizard. Feeding me information, making my life easier, and naming off quests. Here I am, spending an hour trying to kill an Orgillion (Ogrillion? Ogres?) by backstabbing, and you come in here with your "Here's some extremely useful stuff you would have never though of." My lord! And now I'm yelling at a computer screen, realizing that it's 2:45 and this is what I'm doing with my life. Nonetheless, I do want to thank you for your input, and so soon. I would ask why your here at 2:00 but I'm afraid of the answer. I won't let you down captain! Now, I am curious about 1 thing, and this might just be my dumb old mind not seeing the big picture, but if Shoal the nereid kills you when she starts dialogue with you, are you suggesting that I kill her before she can talk to me with Algernon's Cloak? And my god this comment was supposed to just be a thank you for your swiftness, not the Oxford Dictionary. Last, when you say the "XP Loop in Mutamin's" I'm not entirely sure I understand you. I played the original games and I don't remember there being such a thing, but I'm stupid so...anyway, if for some reason you're still here to answer thanks again, and thanks to anyone who'll answer my concerns about my new nightmare. Well, I'm off to cry in a bathtub, Hasta Luego, Farewell, A-Vee-Ta-Say, Gazoonheit.
Welcome to the show @Stupid_Puns! And not to forget: Very exciting writing that made my day and pushed me out of my forum abstinence.
As @billy_pilgrim already said: Nearly every class is fine once you get used to the settings. Just pick the one you have most fun with and wrac havoc upon your enemies. As you mentioned before: There are a lot of smaller and bigger tricks to make the challenge a lot easier so some of us are playing with no-reload-restriction on top of it. Everything is doable - at least in theory. However: If you like to suffer the whole challenge will be a lot of fun.
Too bad i am still not in the mood to get back so Eklun has to wait a bit more. Until then: May patience be with you!
You got that right, everything is possible. For those who don't know, @Harpagornis has a no-reload character, a druid-->fighter, waiting to start ToB.It gives hope to everyone, really. I'm one of the fans of his work who can't wait for him to pick him up again.
P.S. Is Find Familiar a good spell to use here? It raises your Hp by quite a lot, making life just that easier, but now I have to take care of my pet that isn't that good unless you chose Lawful Good alignment.
Welcome @Stupid_Puns - nice post. To answer your question - yes find familiar is a really good spell to use and for your character would have been well worth investing one of your original spell picks in. On core difficulty the 12 HPs for BG1 familiars makes them too vulnerable - a critical hit from pretty much anything will kill them. In LoB though they get 44 HPs and, unlike you, they don't take double damage. That means they can be a real help in fighting - they're particularly effective against things that don't have melee weapons equipped like Shoal or basilisks (choose one of them that gets regeneration though if you're going to do much fighting). If you decide it's too dangerous or too much hassle to use your familiar for fighting though then just pop it in your backpack and enjoy the extra 22 HPs ...
Last, when you say the "XP Loop in Mutamin's" I'm not entirely sure I understand you.
This refers to the basilisk area with Mutamin to the east of the Temple of Lathander, east of Beregost. Basilisks have always been great sources of XP, with Lesser Basilisks granting 1400 XP and Greater Basilisks giving 7000 XP. A Potion of Mirrored Eyes, a Protection from Petrification spell, or a Protection from Petrification green scroll can help you take them down without getting petrified.
The process can take a long time in LoB mode, but I found a way of shortening it: instead of using the Protection from Petrification spell or scroll on yourself, charm a Lesser Basilisk using Algernon's Cloak and then give the basilisk immunity to petrification. Then you can lead your pet basilisk all the way around the map, instantly killing all the enemies using its petrification gaze. It's best to avoid Kirian and the gnolls and only let your basilisk tackle other basilisks, to make sure no one can hurt your pet.
I also found that's possible to use Stone to Flesh scrolls to multiply the XP you get from the area, allowing the player to hit the XP within 10-15 minutes at virtually zero risk:
Also, you can cure petrified targets with Stone to Flesh scrolls, allowing you to kill them with a single point of damage and get any equipment that would have otherwise been lost to petrification.
This also lets you get the XP from the kill twice. Since temples sell about 20 Stone to Flesh scrolls apiece, a wealthy adventurer could keep a Greater Basilisk statue and a Lesser Basilisk friend around for safe keeping, visit them whenever necessary, and trade about 200 gold for 7,000 XP. With 19 scrolls at the Temple of Helm and 19 more scrolls at the Friendly Arm Inn, it's definitely possible to hit the XP cap using Algernon's Cloak and Stone to Flesh scrolls. Selling ankheg shells for 500 gold a pop would be enough to finance the whole endeavor; there are about 14 ankhegs and they'll give about 7,000 gold total.
That's it. Kill Algernon, take his cloak, and then alternate between the ankheg area and the basilisk area to hit the XP cap in a few minutes. Then all that's left to worry about is collecting the right items to finish the main quest.
It's pretty silly, but this would be a quick shortcut for those who don't want to go XP hunting the conventional route. Personally, I can't stand kiting Shoal.
@Grond0@Victor_Creed_SFV I'm having a bit of trouble with the 4 wardens in Durlags, well, specifically fear. I can backstab him down to 1 health bar, but then he becomes immune to my damage and goes back up to full life. Do I need to kill him with something particular or kill the other wardens first? I tried with acid arrows when he was low, but the same thing happened, it just says was immune to your damage, and then he goes up to full life. While I was hurting him with the same damage type before.
Edit: Only needed to kill love for the ward stone, didn't know!
Glad you've sorted it @billy_pilgrim. If you're having trouble with the wardens an easy / cheesy way to deal with them is to protect your character and then run back and forth through the nearby traps.
Well had another problem, couldn't damage the fission slime with fire arrows. I guess EE gave them a save, for 0 dmg, which means there is no way for me to deal fire damage to it on LoB. I guess there is a longsword somewhere that does 1 fire damage... too bad I'm all in on staves ^^ CLUA it is.
Edit: seems like other people hda the same problem, its something in SCS that breaks the teleport.
Fire arrows do offer a save, but the fission slime shouldn't have automatic success with a saving throw so you can just keep shooting. Alternatively you could use an exploding arrow (or another alternative such as a necklace fireball or potion).
Seems my EET install is a bit buggy. At the start of the final fight Tazok spawned, but I never saw him come out of invis (is he even supposed to be invis?) I saw some combat log with him, but after I had kited/killed the other 3 guys he didn't show up. i pull sarevok to a corner and ran around the whole area unstealthed and I couldn't find him, or induce an attack on me from him. In the end I spawned with Clua and he was invis too, and after a while dissappeared, and I once again couldn't find him. I spawned tazok2 (from SoA) and after I killed him it did trigger Sarevok so that he could be killed. Anyway, Shadowdancing into SoD now.
Tazok should be invisible. Every now and then you'll get a bug where enemies will melt into a wall or pillar and then not respond to your presence, so it's possible that's what happened with you (if you know where they are you can get them to come out by using area damage such as a fireball). The second copy probably didn't react because he didn't get the trigger conversation at the start of the combat when Sarevok and the others turn hostile.
@Grond0 that makes sense! I thought about using some of my detonation arrows but really wanted to keep them all for SoD. Next time I'll give that a shot though.
@semiticgod recently posted about my ability to keep a sorcerer alive. While that may have been tongue in cheek (it certainly should have been ), I thought I would have another go with Freya. That lasted all of 2 minutes when, on leaving Candlekeep, my finger twitched once too often on the escape key and aborted the cut-scene earlier than I'd intended. If you abort it before all the shots have been fired by the archer there is the possibility that one of those shots will be fired during the cut scene, but continue on to you in the game (where you are not protected from death ).
To coin a phrase - an untimely death fills me with determination. Let's see if I can make better progress next time ...
Starting again, Freya successfully escaped from Candlekeep this time and slaughtered Imoen, Xzar and Montaron to get their equipment. She used the armor scroll from Candlekeep to give her a better chance of surviving a possible skeleton archer ambush and that looked like it might have helped when that ambush triggered, but she managed to get out of sight range of all the archers having only taken one hit. Unfortunately, one of them had obviously launched an arrow just before Freya got out of sight and that cut her down on the way to the map edge.
Will it be third time lucky - or do bad things happen in threes?
Hitting the road once more I decided trusting to luck today was not a good idea so made sure that Freya was travelling during day-time, so that any early ambush was not the dreaded skeleton archers.
She got safely to the coast and kited Shoal round to gain a couple of levels. I have tended at this point in the past to stay in that area and rest while blinding and killing carrion crawlers and dire wolves to get up to level 4 and acquire invisibility. That's not an easy option as there's a significant chance that enemies will resist all blindness attempts, resulting in the need to run roundn the area desperately trying to find enough space to try another rest. However, resting just for the purpose of farming XP feels a bit too cheesy to me, so I don't think I'll do that any more in the future.
Travelling back to Beregost Freya killed Neera for her bag (shooting from range to avoid the scripted encounter) and Algernon for his cloak. The latter was used to persuade an ogrillon to switch sides and make doing Mirianne's and Zhurlong's quests easy. Freya then tried a couple of times to charm Silke without success, before my attention wandered and an intended further charm turned out to be an attempted blind instead - turning her hostile. Quickly retreating, Freya went to the temple and charmed a sirine instead - wearing that down against a wild dog enabled her to grab its XP and get up to level 4. That allowed her to acquire invisibility and I thought she'd better go and deal with Silke before I forgot about that danger. Silke had gone invisible by script and didn't reappear even after resting for a day, so Freya used a charmed courtesan as bait to find her. Unfortunately, after resting Silke had disappeared again, so Freya charmed Garrick and then rested before going after Silke once more - and this time was able to charm her. She was then worn down by spider poison before being killed by a magic missile.
@Grond0 I've got to start treating Neera like that in my runs .
I just started a bit of SoD. Basically the first dungeon, protected from undead and walked through most of it uncontested. Although I did find that some of the non undead merc started following me around even though I was stealth-ed and I ended up with 100s of monsters milling about in the room with Korlasz. In the end I shot her once with a dispelling arrow, hid, backstabbed, dispelled with another arrow and backstabbed again, and that was enough to trigger her prompt. Abusing the detect mode trick to stealth instantly after action.
Comments
I've been away for a while and got the itch again, and want to try it with a wholly different build. Shadowdancer into fighter, I think it will be good for most of the game, but I think fights like the ducal palace will be problematic, and I've not played enough of SoD to know if its possible to complete without being able to set snares. My plan is to dual to fighter at lvl 13, which is in SoA. What do you guys think? Are there ways to cheese those fights without traps/spells?
Main problem in the palace is gonna be keeping Lila and Belt alive but if you have patience enough just charm the mage and maybe the shaman with Algernon's/nymphs, go outside and rest to shorten the charm time a little and then park the 2 charmed nobles in a sve room.
Once all Doppelgangers are destroyed get the charmed nobles next to you and set the game on autopause at enemy sight.
Idk enough about SoD but as long as you don't no reload it should be fine, but @Harpagornis is the SoD expert here.
Are you using AI stealth for that?
I always knew shadowdancers are awesome but wasn't aware you could do that.
On the other hand I noticed AI stealth works earlier than manual but never thought of combining that with shadowdancer.
Ah nvm I just found his post.
That's a really chees... um awesome strategy I like it.
As far as the build goes, I know @Harpagornis mentioned a xp loop in SoA but I think it requires shield of balduran and I don't think I can use it if I dual to fighter from thief, so I'm going to have to figure out how to get my dual class levels back in SoA.
P.S. Is Find Familiar a good spell to use here? It raises your Hp by quite a lot, making life just that easier, but now I have to take care of my pet that isn't that good unless you chose Lawful Good alignment.
As far as class/build goes there are a lot of options, your choice is absolutely fine. I would also suggest you do the xp loop in Mutamins just to get your levels up, this makes the next part of the game a lot easier. The blindness spell works great on LoB, but there are several spells that don't work anymore, like the wand of sleep, or rod of paralysis; all useless! They might work with greater malison + doom combo though. Find familiar is great because the pet gets the LoB hp bonus, and can actually tank quite a bit for you, depending on your alignment. You can also pick it up and put it in your pocket!
GL HF.
As @billy_pilgrim already said: Nearly every class is fine once you get used to the settings. Just pick the one you have most fun with and wrac havoc upon your enemies. As you mentioned before: There are a lot of smaller and bigger tricks to make the challenge a lot easier so some of us are playing with no-reload-restriction on top of it. Everything is doable - at least in theory. However: If you like to suffer the whole challenge will be a lot of fun.
Too bad i am still not in the mood to get back so Eklun has to wait a bit more. Until then: May patience be with you!
Shadow dragon and Shade Lord dispatched of in this solo run. How? Power of the polymorph.
@Blackraven you might be interested in this.
The process can take a long time in LoB mode, but I found a way of shortening it: instead of using the Protection from Petrification spell or scroll on yourself, charm a Lesser Basilisk using Algernon's Cloak and then give the basilisk immunity to petrification. Then you can lead your pet basilisk all the way around the map, instantly killing all the enemies using its petrification gaze. It's best to avoid Kirian and the gnolls and only let your basilisk tackle other basilisks, to make sure no one can hurt your pet.
I also found that's possible to use Stone to Flesh scrolls to multiply the XP you get from the area, allowing the player to hit the XP within 10-15 minutes at virtually zero risk:
Edit: Only needed to kill love for the ward stone, didn't know!
Edit: seems like other people hda the same problem, its something in SCS that breaks the teleport.
To coin a phrase - an untimely death fills me with determination. Let's see if I can make better progress next time ...
Will it be third time lucky - or do bad things happen in threes?
She got safely to the coast and kited Shoal round to gain a couple of levels. I have tended at this point in the past to stay in that area and rest while blinding and killing carrion crawlers and dire wolves to get up to level 4 and acquire invisibility. That's not an easy option as there's a significant chance that enemies will resist all blindness attempts, resulting in the need to run roundn the area desperately trying to find enough space to try another rest. However, resting just for the purpose of farming XP feels a bit too cheesy to me, so I don't think I'll do that any more in the future.
Travelling back to Beregost Freya killed Neera for her bag (shooting from range to avoid the scripted encounter) and Algernon for his cloak. The latter was used to persuade an ogrillon to switch sides and make doing Mirianne's and Zhurlong's quests easy. Freya then tried a couple of times to charm Silke without success, before my attention wandered and an intended further charm turned out to be an attempted blind instead - turning her hostile. Quickly retreating, Freya went to the temple and charmed a sirine instead - wearing that down against a wild dog enabled her to grab its XP and get up to level 4. That allowed her to acquire invisibility and I thought she'd better go and deal with Silke before I forgot about that danger. Silke had gone invisible by script and didn't reappear even after resting for a day, so Freya used a charmed courtesan as bait to find her. Unfortunately, after resting Silke had disappeared again, so Freya charmed Garrick and then rested before going after Silke once more - and this time was able to charm her. She was then worn down by spider poison before being killed by a magic missile.
I just started a bit of SoD. Basically the first dungeon, protected from undead and walked through most of it uncontested. Although I did find that some of the non undead merc started following me around even though I was stealth-ed and I ended up with 100s of monsters milling about in the room with Korlasz. In the end I shot her once with a dispelling arrow, hid, backstabbed, dispelled with another arrow and backstabbed again, and that was enough to trigger her prompt. Abusing the detect mode trick to stealth instantly after action.
Now, on to the rest of SoD!