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The Baldur's Gate Wiki is in a poor state.

124

Comments

  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,486
    I am sorry. I didn't mean to come across as hostile, aggressive, or holier than thou, but your reaction is warranted since I gave the Wikia that...title.

    I know that PIHwiki has its own Archive page, and “It's kept only for historical purposes, and out of respect for people who created and contributed” as it’s said, so this is how you “respect for anyone who creates a resource of information from a long time ago that's still relevant today, even if their creators have faded into the ether”? Sounds like the only “respect” you had is for pihw contributors, that’s arrogant.

    You got me. Hypocritical of me.

    I’m 200% certain that @Buttercheese is not showing off how “turd” BGwikia is, which is not, and how stupid its contributors are because they’re literally “polish(ing) a turd”, as you've said. Quite the contrary, Buttercheese made this thread to encourage more people to share their wisdom there, to improve wikia, which herself did, a lot of excellent work.

    I wasn't contesting that. I know she made this thread to improve the Wikia. And I never called anybody stupid.

    But enough of the history lessons, which are entirely irrelevant to the topic.

    That'll teach me to use pathos-driven theatrics ever again. The point of the history lesson was to illustrate how dear PIH is to me.

    Please do get me correctly at this point, I’m not asking you to contribute on “my” site, or the site of my favorite, which is not, I’m merely asking your permissions, just say the word so that more people can benefit from it rather than letting it sit on the site of your favorite, and I’ll do all the editings, crediting your name, your links, highlighting thanks to PIHwiki, and I’ll do the subsequent maintenance work, for fans, not for my own.

    I'm not done with all the spells yet anyway. I will probably be more receptive once I've finished all of them and the work has "stuck" for a little while and not much else needs to be done to it.

    Because the example of PIHwiki shows that if there're no original people (or people from the closed circle) to continue, the site will once go to oblivion, while BGwikia can always attract new contributors.

    PIH isn't closed though. It's a wiki too, which means anyone can come in and start editing it. It's not even solely dedicated to Baldur's Gate either; its got sections for other games that are blank compared to the work that's been put into the BG section.

    I'll excuse myself from this thread now, since its about the Wikia after all. Apologies all around again.

    JuliusBorisovlolienislandkingsemiticgod
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Flashburn said:


    I'll excuse myself from this thread now, since its about the Wikia after all.

    You don't need to do that, feel free use this thread to get more visibility for your favorite site, it's a wiki for BG all the same.

    JuliusBorisovlolienTroodon80semiticgod
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,745
    Flashburn said:

    I didn't want to help with that because it seemed like trying to polish a turd, so poor was the wikia's quality, which is why @Buttercheese made this thread.

    I’m 200% certain that @Buttercheese is not showing off how “turd” BGwikia is, which is not, and how stupid its contributors are because they’re literally “polish(ing) a turd”, as you've said. Quite the contrary, Buttercheese made this thread to encourage more people to share their wisdom there, to improve wikia, which herself did, a lot of excellent work.

    Yeah, what @islandking said. The BG wiki isn't and wasn't shit when I discovered it. A wiki by it's nature lives and dies with it's community to fill it with information. People here have information, that's why I made this thread.

    Troodon80
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Hi, everyone, I just created Deck of Many Things page, anyone who's more familiar with codes please proof read it, all data taken from DOMT.DLG
    Thank you!

    JuliusBorisovlolienGrammarsalad
  • FaalagornFaalagorn Member Posts: 12
    Today I started changing the names of books with numbers to what they appear in game – previously they were using the names from the first paragraph of the book (minus the last colon) and using hyphen-minus sign (-) instead of proper m dash (—). I thought it's more likely people would look for the actual name of the item instead of these names, that's why I made link and started moving pages based on the Books page. However, I was only able to move three of them, since I got the Action throttled message after three moves – which actually is quite reasonable, as I am only a regular user.

    Anyway, if anyone have a contact to someone from Baldur's Gate wiki with proper rights, feel free to continue what I started if you agree with the changes, as I can't do that myself :). I know I could write a message on wiki itself, but for some reason, after seeing this thread here thought it may be easier to do it here :P. If not, I will probably contact someone through wiki anyway, but it would be nice if someone here could help :).

    Also, since I didn't got my hands on History of Waterdeep as these books doesn't seem to exist in Beregost and I didn't wanted to mess with the CLUA console, feel free to check how these books are named and change it accordingly!

    islandkingAedanlolien
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    edited August 2017
    @Faalagorn
    Great jobs so far Faalagorn, I specially like your Obe's Training page, some profound observations you added there, unbelievable to see there're still so many new details to be found for a minor quest like that.

    Yeah, seems regular members may only rename 4 times at a time, return some hours later and you can start renaming again, I wouldn't recommend renaming too many though, for there be already too many redirect pages.

    I'm currently contributing to BGwikia, I think we can discuss things here or via talk pages there :)

    AedanFaalagornlolien
  • FaalagornFaalagorn Member Posts: 12

    @Faalagorn
    Great jobs so far Faalagorn, I specially like your Obe's Training page, some profound observations you added there, unbelievable to see there're still so many new details to be found for a minor quest like that.

    Thanks you :D It was accompanied by some Redmine bugs, most notably temporary companion levels getting reset when saved, gotta retest that now since I have SoD though. I'm not sure if getting XP from opening the chests is expected behaviour since the XP was removed from the monster kills in the first place, but I wouldn't mind it being removed, especially since it's low gain and more of curiosity anyway. Gotta say I was really througough on this, but discovering minor things in places no one is looking is kinda my hobby, you could say lol.

    Yeah, seems regular members may only rename 4 times at a time, return some hours later and you can start renaming again, I wouldn't recommend renaming too many though, for there be already too many redirect pages.

    Indeed, I just tried moving few more pages and was successful at it. I was worried it may last 24 or even more hours, but with only a slight delay, I guess I'll be fine on my own especially since it's just a few books that are have multi-tome editions.

    About the redirects - since the old page's title is still included in pages after I edit, in a bit more proper way (as a citation), I suspect it would be wise to remove these redirect eventually after making sure nothing is linking to these pages, though for that I think higher privilage are needed, so It'd have to be consulted with someone who have them. I agree that having too many redirects is not needed, so I would be glad helping purging some of them eventually, though it have to be kept in mind that some outside pages (such as this forum or any other page) could still link to them, too (not *that* much big deal though, as you can still see the administrative comment left from the removed page when stumbling accross a removed redirect, and the history is moved already when moving a page anyway).

    I'm currently contributing to BGwikia, I think we can discuss things here or via talk pages there :)

    I think I saw your edits too :P Hopefully I'll stick for long enough to include some improvements I have in mind, for example I see the templates (such as items infobox) could use some extra standarization, automatization and guidelines when it comes to filling details such as adding games they exist at (is ToB a separate game? And what about SoD? And TotSC? Should we list them all? What if item can be carried to ToB but is not found there per se? What if the item exist in BGII files, but can only be spawned via command? What about items that only exist in Black Pits?) and automatically adding appropriate categories so they don't have to be filled in manually or minor things such as automatically adding "lbs." – same goes to other infoboxes ofc.

    I would love eventually to check and unify all the items, creature and locations (and make pages for all the locations, including interiors) to make sure the data is accurate, preferrably based on the exact info extracted from the game files or using CLUA to help, but for now on I'm mostly (re- – kinda)playing the game at my own pace (with LoB, because artifical challenge!) and slowly adding tidbits about quests, creatures, items I stumble upon – my right focus is adding data about books, since I looted poor Beregost folks out of them :D (History of Shadowdale I for reference – I'm still puzzled about removing some of the "external links" in favor on the links in text, as they look quite fitting IMO, but guess it's something to discuss on wiki on later date).

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    edited August 2017
    @Faalagorn
    I was wondering why the Obe battles seem easier than in classic, now that you mentioned about the differences in levels, yeah that explains it. I wonder if the companions’ levels have been increased in Tutorial too, sorry, bad memory I have :)
    I think it’s OK to gain XP from opening chests while Obe’s illusions don’t since summons don’t yield XP so they’re like normal behaviors in BGEE
    Yeah, I like your style, that’s the way to discover new things, it’s exciting, keep up!
    I left a message about wikia editing details on your talk page.

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 300
    Agreed. I get annoyed WHENEVER Google is stupid enough to give it to me. It's sort of like, I use the Wiki for a lot of games! So, when I'm typing for Baldur's Gate or any other Infinity Engine game I choose, I forget to go to Mike's RPG!

    The Wiki does need some work... wish I had some time! :neutral:

    islandkingJuliusBorisov
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    @1130210
    I looked at other places too, Mike's PRG you mentioned, gamefaqs, dudleyville...etc, but sometimes I find it frustrated to go over searching different places for a single game, I just wish BGwikia would be a all in one fan site to cover every aspects of this great game, but it needs more people's work to make it happen, no one can do it on their own.
    Feel free to look through random pages and make some proof reading, that's what I do when my schedule gets intense. :)

    1130210JuliusBorisovThacoBelllolien
  • FaalagornFaalagorn Member Posts: 12
    As some of you may noticed, I am on a quest improving the Baldur's Gate wiki whenever I can for some time already. I recently took a bigger look at the overall state on the wiki, originally wanting to start at the creature and quest pages, but recently I moved to item pages.

    I noticed some of the pages on the wiki which had lists of all the creature and/or item names, so I took a look at what's missing – however, it was really confusing, since a lot of them were referecing only the original games from the saga, lacking not only SoD stuff, but also lacking the EE additions (black pits, tutorial in BG1, stuff relateted to new companions, new weapons and renamings).

    So that prompted me to take a look at the Near Infinity, which is a great piece of software and I'm really glad it is still developed and maintained by the community, and I did lists of all the areas, creature, items on my user page and replaced the content with whatever I found online with the list of all the ARE/CRE/ITM files in game files.

    However, as it wasn't hard to make a list of all the files by mass exporting, ls'ing the folder content and then formatting the list, I didn't found an easy way to export the appropriate StrRef with creature and/or item names, sadly. So I took the monstrous task of going through thousands of items one by one and filling the appropriate en_us StrRef value for "identified name" for all the items manaully.

    Eventually, I was able to pull it off for the original Baldur's Gate and the EE and compare the results to rename the pages on wiki accordingly to the EE content, but it was a really tedious task that I suspect could be easily automated.

    So anyway, here's my question: Is there anyone that could potentially help me automatically extracting the "identified name" StrRefs for all the files in BG2, so I don't have to go through them manually? Ideally it would be some script or a code fragment that I could eventually modifiy, because I could adjust it to extracting other values later on (creature names, spell names etc.) and in different game (BG, BGEE, BG2, BG2EE and maybe even IWD, IWDEE, IWD2 and PST later on)! I'm using Linux, so using anything commandline or compiling a piece of program in virtually any language shouldn't be a problem.

    I was thinking about learning to do that myself, as it may not be as hard with Near Infinity's code being open source, but I'm afraid that with my dull and pathetic coding skills and without the knowledge of NI's codeabse, it may prove too hard, so I though I'll ask first. Maybe @argent77 could help/point me somewhere, as I saw it's yours github fork of NI that's getting the most attention :) (and the one I'm currently using, which as far as I'm not really fond of Java's application, works without troubles under Linux, so that's really nice for NI being a truly cross-platform tool for a cross-platform game, without resorting to Wine :P)

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • Sam_Sam_ Member Posts: 137
    edited September 2017
    @Faalagorn
    In NearInfinity, open up ABAZRING.ITM and go to the Edit tab. Click on Identified Name (this one will be No Such Index), and at the bottom click Find -> selected attribute. Make sure the Negate result checkbox is checked, and click Search. Save the result, and you have your list of ITM files and their corresponding identified name. The same general process can be repeated for other resource types.

    FaalagornJuliusBorisovlolienGate70
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,439
    WeiDU would be the perfect candidate for automated tasks.

    I have created a short script that prints some info for all game items into text files. Paste the following code into a file "setup-CreateItemDesc.tp2" and run it with WeiDU:
    BACKUP ~CreateItemDesc/backup~
    AUTHOR ~Argent77~

    BEGIN ~Create list of item descriptions~
    NO_LOG_RECORD

    ACTION_IF (~%WEIDU_OS%~ STR_EQ ~win32~) BEGIN
    OUTER_TEXT_SPRINT ~nl~ ~%WNL%~
    END ELSE BEGIN
    OUTER_TEXT_SPRINT ~nl~ ~%LNL%~
    END

    MKDIR ~%MOD_FOLDER%/items~
    COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP - ~^.+\.itm$~ ~override~
    PATCH_IF (SOURCE_SIZE >= 0x72) BEGIN
    READ_LONG NAME1 strref_name1
    READ_LONG NAME2 strref_name2
    READ_LONG 0x18 flags
    READ_ASCII 0x3a iconInv (8) NULL
    READ_ASCII 0x44 iconGnd (8) NULL
    // try to skip internal items
    PATCH_IF ((flags BAND 0x0c) == 0x0c && // droppable and displayable
    (strref_name1 >= 0 || strref_name2 >= 0) &&
    FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~%iconInv%.BAM~ &&
    FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~%iconGnd%.BAM~) BEGIN
    READ_STRREF NAME1 name1
    READ_STRREF NAME2 name2
    READ_STRREF UNIDENTIFIED_DESC desc1
    READ_STRREF IDENTIFIED_DESC desc2
    READ_LONG 0x34 price
    READ_SHORT 0x42 lore
    READ_LONG 0x4c weight

    TEXT_SPRINT code ~%SOURCE_RES%~
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~*** Item code: %SOURCE_RES% ***%nl%%nl%~

    // item name
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Unidentified name: %name1%%nl%~
    PATCH_IF (lore > 0) BEGIN
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Identified name: %name2%%nl%~
    END
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%%nl%~

    // item description
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Unidentified description:%nl%%desc1%%nl%%nl%~
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%--------%nl%%nl%~
    PATCH_IF (lore > 0) BEGIN
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Identified description:%nl%%desc2%%nl%%nl%~
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%--------%nl%%nl%~
    END

    // misc. properties
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Price: %price% gold%nl%~
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Weight: %weight%%nl%~
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Lore to identify: %lore%%nl%~
    TEXT_SPRINT text ~%text%Inventory icon: %iconInv%.BAM%nl%%nl%~

    // print item summary to text file
    INNER_ACTION BEGIN
    <<<<<<<< .../inlined/empty.txt
    >>>>>>>>
    COPY ~.../inlined/empty.txt~ ~%MOD_FOLDER%/items/%code%.txt~
    SET len = STRING_LENGTH ~%text%~
    INSERT_BYTES 0 len
    WRITE_ASCIIE 0 ~%text%~ (len)
    END
    END
    END

    You can probably tweak the code further to generate Wiki-compatible text output.

    FaalagornJuliusBorisovlolienGate70
  • FaalagornFaalagorn Member Posts: 12
    Thank you both :D. Actually, I got the replies way faster than I thought ^^. It seems that @Sam_'s suggestion (after minor tweaks) is enough for my needs at the moment, especially since I didn't try WeiDU yet, but thanks @argent77 for mentioning it, as it's definitely something for me to take a look at!

    It's good to see so much useful tools and modding community at the disposal for the BG, after being away only for 15 years ;).

    Thank you both again <3

    JuliusBorisovtbone1lolien
  • unavailableunavailable Member Posts: 265
    edited September 2017
    you know a game is a bloody mess of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and nuance when 10+ year old veterans aren't sure what the rules are. Used to be that before the internet got popular games were rarely updated and gamers could be reasonably sure that the stuff they learned was toing to remain true.

    tbone1islandkinglolien
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    edited September 2017
    @unavailable
    Thankfully, with many excellent tools such as EEKeeper & Near Infinity, everything is much clearer now :)

    semiticgod
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    The average gamer pre-internet had little info to work with, and what they had wasn't always accurate, unless they used a printed guide.

    semiticgod
  • EnilwynEnilwyn Member Posts: 127
    @islandking I'm actively working on my SoD walkthrough again (www.siegeofdragonspear.wordpress.com). It's been my way to give back to the community by logging all the things I come in contact with throughout my journeys, done in a way that's both a nod to old-school walkthroughs and pleasing on the eyes. I'm not sure how I can help, but I am up for a conversation.

    JuliusBorisovronaldoislandkinglolien
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    @Enilwyn
    That is great! It's my motivation too, to give back to the community :) .
    For some reason I can't access to your web site, so I'm not sure the format of your walkthough, we may post it as whole, like the Durlag's Tower Walkthrough, or we can divide it into different quest pages. You may find me at BGWiki under the same name, and let's see which solution we can come to :) .

    Enilwynlolien
  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    its a pretty useful reference for BG1 but holy crap is it spotty with BG2

  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    @LadyEibhilinRhett
    Which is my main focus now, I'm combining fan made sources, also writing some of my own, with the help of EEk and NI, to gradually fill the gap.

  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    @islandking I'm not the best with that kind of stuff and I haven't played BG2 in a really long time, but if there is anything I can do to help, let me know. I'm doing a BG1 playthrough right now, and even though it's a lot better for BG1 I have noticed a lot of the articles on the more minor NPCs are still stubs.

    islandking
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Thank you @LadyEibhilinRhett, actually there’s a lot in the to-do list and I already feel overwhelmed by the tasks ahead given the few number of the contributors there.

    As you’ve mentioned, a lot minor NPC pages need attention, and besides the expansion texts, screenshots will help, feel free to snap some memorable shots as you play to make their pages more vivid.
    The shop lists may not be complete, missing EE ones probably, so please check them when you visit the stores.
    The bestiary is far from being done, don’t hesitate to create pages, post images, and expand their infoboxes when you spot red links and stabs.

    There’ll be more, talk to me via my wiki talk page or pm me here if you have any questions.

    lolien
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    edited November 2017
    To everybody:

    I only ask that more people join forces as the work load is huge for a small number of contributors.

    Anyways if you haven’t noticed or visited BGW for some time, the site has already been upgraded with many new additions:
    • Game mechanics pages have been revamped, it now holds these basic knowledge pages with deeper explanations and better-organized structure for both starters, casual players, and veterans. Go on and visit pages such as Armor Class, Game Terminology, you might discover something interesting, also feel free to improve them.
    • Many companion pages are now voiced to let readers enjoy the fabulous voice-overs BG series offers without getting into the game. (though for me hearing those voices always encourages me to play more ;) )
    • More quest pages added. Stronghold quest pages are now complete, new BGEE quests now have their dedicated pages, plus some more.
    • More item pages added. Still missing many but a number of notable item pages have been made, including some of the SoD items.
    • The new Infobox and Gameplay section feature. The new IB now lists the hidden effects other than a plain copy from the in-game descriptions, the info was inspected from NI and serves as references for anyone who’s interested in analyzing facts and wants to develop new strategies. The Gameplay section are insights, usually contains more detailed explanation and proven tactics. The IB of Demogorgon and the gp section of Haste are two of the best examples.
    • Some existing pages overhauled. You’ll notice many changes to some of the most visited pages, the description images have been replaced by sharper EE ones, page content reorganized & indexed for clearer view and better readability.
    • The site structure have been improved with a more efficient top nav menu and a brand new category tree. With the separation of wizard spells by school, readers will have a quick view from which spell pool a specialist enjoys the ST advantages and which they may not cast (still under construction).
    • A more rewarding Achievements system was introduced, plus more…
    Many of the improvements wouldn’t be possible without the help of the many amazing people on this forum and across the internet, they’re willing to offer their knowledge and are kind to share their works, thank you for making BGW a much better site for all BG fans!

    And I guess maybe it’s time for our initiator to change the status report from “poor” state to “enhanced”, @Buttercheese ? :p

    lolienJuliusBorisov
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,745
    @LadyEibhilinRhett The best help anyone can give is when they browse the wiki, find some information missing that they know and then add it themselves.

    lolienislandkingJuliusBorisov
  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    I've added a page for ToTSC area AR2012, the Werewolf Warrens, since I noticed there was no page for it yet. If someone could double check my formatting, since I'm still pretty new to this, that would be great.

    ButtercheeselolienJuliusBorisovislandking
  • dockaboomskidockaboomski Member Posts: 434
    I don't have the wherewithal to do this at the moment, but it'd be sweet if the pages were updated with the original Baldur's Gate proficiencies for companions, since they changed drastically in the EE.

    islandkinglolien
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 874
    Having noticed during my IWD playthrough that the IWD wiki is in a poor condition, I'm going to add a number of articles to it. :)

    My exams will end on the 21st, and I'll get some free time then. So, I'll first add all the Spells to the IWD wiki (which are completely missing at the moment), and then move on to adding other things. I hope it's okay if I do that, right? :)

    Proontislandking
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 874
    edited March 16
    Uhm... can anyone tell me how to make an info-box? I can't understand how to do it, and I am not able to copy it's template from the Baldur's Gate Wiki... :/

    And is all the formatting done in html? Or do I need to know something else?

    EDIT 1: Also, why can't I find the Visual Editor (that's present in BG wiki)? All that I see is a Classic Editor that's lacking many important tools...

    Anyways, I've added the first Spell Page at the IWD wiki, Magic Missile! (Couldn't format it very well though, due to my inexperience in this matter.) I'd really appreciate some guidance so I can help improve the wiki for the entire community's use. :)

    EDIT 2: Well, so I added quite a number of spells. I'm first adding only the basic information and spell description. Later on, I'll add spell tactics and my insights. :)

    Post edited by Rik_Kirtaniya on
    islandkingElectricMonk
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