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The 'EVILS' of AD&D in the 80's

ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180
edited March 2017 in Off-Topic
So I have played PnP DnD since it first came out. Some of you older players might remember this as well. I bring it up just because the reactions to the game are not the same anymore (i think). Anyway, I can remember there were murders by a student at NC State that was being blamed somewhat for his DnD playing. OK. THe dude had some mental issues.
Good ol Pat Robertson has talked on and off about the evils of DnD since the eighties. And I dont know how I saw it, probably flicking through stations at the right moment he starts ranting about DnD, even showing this pic from the 1st ed AD&D players handbook. He started going on about 'Here is some guy in hell fighting devils in such, how terrible an influence, blah, blah, blah.
ANYWAY, I remember thinking, OK, here is a potential player charcacter Paladin fighting AGAINST evil, so what gives Pat? Found it on the internet again. There are plenty of videos of him talking about D&D if you can stomach it, hehheh.


So, any of you PnP or computer gamers ever accosted with this kind of crap still?

For me personally , I never payed it any mind, but it was a laugh. Back then it helped develop imagination, reading comprehension, spelling, better on paper, (hehheh), appreciate diversity, and even basic math.

ThacoBellBelgarathMTHDJKajuruCrevsDaakButtercheeseTroodon80AerakarTeflon
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Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,179
    I'm a little too young to have been around for most of the "controversy" of DnD. But the same stigma has shifted over to the video game industry. I remember the huge outcry against Pokemon of all things back in its heyday. I find it hilariously ironic that the Pope at the time put his support behind the franchise.

    ZaghoulKuronaTroodon80
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,802
    I was never into D&D when I was younger, but I DID read a book that was essentially about this very subject called "Hobgoblin", which was essentially the 80s horror paperback version of the Tom Hanks movie "Mazes and Monsters".

    images.gr-assets.com/books/1414880186l/1069038.jpg

    ZaghoulThacoBell
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180
    @ThacoBell , I would imagine it has shifted to video gaming now. Huh, supported it you say? Well, having studied alot of catholic church history during medieval studies in college (and out), I am sure there was an angle he had on that. Maybe figured it would keep people occupied from some other more serious 'vice'.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180

    I was never into D&D when I was younger, but I DID read a book that was essentially about this very subject called "Hobgoblin", which was essentially the 80s horror paperback version of the Tom Hanks movie "Mazes and Monsters".

    images.gr-assets.com/books/1414880186l/1069038.jpg

    @jjstraka34 I loved Mazes and Monsters, and remember fighting my brothers over watching that or something else they wanted to watch. That may be somewhat similar to what happened to the NC State kid as he heard voices or some such thing.

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    Yeah, I played when that crap was going on. I had the overly-zealous religious people in my family preach at me about this while their own kids were drinking, taking and selling drugs, and having sex in groups.

    ZaghoulBelgarathMTHArctodus
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180
    @tbone1 Hehheh, thing is, I suspect it actually kept alot of us in the house more playing the game. Party, pheh, if my group was getting together to play that was it.
    Course now, a little later, it was bring a six pak to the game with the chips, but even then everyone did not want to get to liquered up an make a stupid mistake and get there self killed. Actually, the ol beer bottle can weird some new players out if the DM is idly blowing into it when the group is slowly making there way down a dark corridor.

    ThacoBelltbone1
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,640
    Yes, I first got into D&D with friends in 1980, and the controversy was raging. We were all part of a highly conservative evangelical denomination, so a lot of us felt conflicted about our love of D&D, including me. There was a local radio show host who did an afternoon talk show almost every day demonizing D&D, and we had our youth pastor over once to watch us play.

    Interestingly, the youth pastor wasn't concerned about any so-called "demonic influence" or supernaturalism in the game - he was more concerned about how much of our time it was taking, and whether it might not be a kind of addiction with a disproportionate or out-of-balance role in our lives.

    My friend's mother, who hosted our frequent games in her basement, often commented that she loved us playing D&D together, because it kept us all at home, safe, and out of trouble during practically all of our leisure time away from school.

    ZaghoulSkatanTroodon80Aerakar
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,164
    My dad burned all of my D&D stuff back in the early 80's because of this (even though he was the one who bought most of it for me!). My friends and I had just started getting into it. Soon after he was able to start bringing an Apple computer home on nights and weekends from the school where he worked. I bought Wizardry and started playing that on the computer with my friends. When my old man found out, he was upset and almost made me throw it away. Ironically, he started to play it himself just to check it out and he got hooked. He's been a fantasy gamer ever since. My mom is constantly on him about how much time he spends playing Skyrim now!

    I never got back to playing pen and paper though, so I guess I missed out on that. I bought all the books again once I was out of college and had a good job. That was mostly for nostalgia since I didn't know anybody else that played by then.

    CrevsDaakZaghoulAerakarMathsorcerer
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,179
    I'm still incredibly tempted to buy the various monster manuals just for the artwork.

    Balrog99ZaghoulTroodon80Aerakar
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,300
    Case anyone wants a flash back to the past (not sure if this video will play in other countries, I'm assuming it will).

    http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/is-dungeons-and-dragons-dangerous

    ZaghoulTroodon80
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180
    @BelgarathMTH That must have been tough, conflicting ideas usually are. I never could understand why some wanted to put down players when most were usually battling evil. Thing is, yes, kept us in the house a bit more. hehheh. Not out battling with the so called 'vices'. Some monds are not as open as others though in religion.

    @Balrog99 Dang dude, That IS rough. Glad to see you got your dad hooked though. What a turn around, huh? If more would (or would have, back then)people give it a try they would get it.
    In today's fast and busy world it is sometimes harder to get a good PnP group together, esp with families, kids, etc.
    I remember Wizardry and also other stuff like Temple of Apshai, good stuff back. Heck an even earlier game on the Atari 2600 I remember was Adventure (think that was the name).

    @ThacoBell Yep, I like to collect all the older stuff, still out there in droves at the moment, although some things are more. One of the most expensive I think, and a book I actually had kept is the 1st Ed Deities and Demigods with the Chthulu and Melnibonean myhs in them (they took them out of later editions).

    @elminster Heh, yep, that was the hayday of D&D persecution. I think I still have that exact calculator they were using in my old dice box. Believe I saw someone buying the 1st edition module 'The forgotten Temple of Tharizdun' as well.
    I believe mental illness alot to do with many of the cases, (anything could have been a trigger. And even then, with the way D&D was ridiculed it was sometimes just used as a scapegoat,like the one I mentioned at NC State University in the eighties. In general though this game has helped more kids develop various real life skills (including social interaction, although I was pretty darn shy outside the game).

    ThacoBellBalrog99BelgarathMTH
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    Zaghoul said:


    I believe mental illness alot to do with many of the cases, (anything could have been a trigger. And even then, with the way D&D was ridiculed it was sometimes just used as a scapegoat,like the one I mentioned at NC State University in the eighties. In general though this game has helped more kids develop various real life skills (including social interaction, although I was pretty darn shy outside the game).

    I believe urban legends had a lot to do with many of the cases. That is, events that were only sometimes real were heavily sensationalized and twisted into a narrative that would demonize roleplaying games.

    I doubt mental illness had a thing to do with any of the ridiculous stories that surrounded AD&D.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180
    @BelleSorciere thats the guy. Not far from where I was living at the time. The mental illness I was referring to the actual criminal cases. The guy at NC State said he was hearing voices. Sounds possibly like schizophrenia. Course maybe he made it up.
    But yes, it has been sensationalized and in some of the court cases D&D was not allowed by the judge to be a factor. Depends on how the interview was recorded and by who with what purpose. I know Pat Robertson has been a dick about it over the years. He has even forgotten stuff he had said from earlier years in some later interviews.
    It got some real flak back in the eighties.
    Technology changes though over the years and we have to take good and bad that comes with that.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,164
    edited March 2017

    "I believe urban legends had a lot to do with many of the cases. That is, events that were only sometimes real were heavily sensationalized and twisted into a narrative that would demonize roleplaying games."


    But what about the children???

    BelleSorciereThacoBell
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    edited March 2017
    Balrog99 said:


    "I believe urban legends had a lot to do with many of the cases. That is, events that were only sometimes real were heavily sensationalized and twisted into a narrative that would demonize roleplaying games."

    But what about the children???

    Let them get a job and buy their own game stuff, darn kids these days, with their XBoxes and fax machines and hula hoops.

    CrevsDaakBelleSorciereZaghoulThacoBell
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769

    It seems the only thing that HASN'T made this leap is D&D and listening to Maiden and Priest albums.

    Not sure about the latter two, but I'd very much prefer D&D not to become mainstream :V Or rather, not even more mainstream, thanks to Critical Roll, Stranger Things and the likes.

    Call me a hipster if you must, but I very much like having a hobby only few are familiar with.
    Plus, last thing we need are more posers (and I have met my fair share of those.)

    tbone1CrevsDaakArctodus
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,802

    It seems the only thing that HASN'T made this leap is D&D and listening to Maiden and Priest albums.

    Not sure about the latter two, but I'd very much prefer D&D not to become mainstream :V Or rather, not even more mainstream, thanks to Critical Roll, Stranger Things and the likes.

    Call me a hipster if you must, but I very much like having a hobby only few are familiar with.
    Plus, last thing we need are more posers (and I have met my fair share of those.)
    "Stranger Things" was absolutely awesome as a TV Show, but the thing I loved most about it was how it's title card font is pretty much an exact replica of the one used for the 80s paperback version of Stephen King's "Skeleton Crew". Many shows and movies have TRIED to emulate the feel of the 80s, but this is the only one that has really gotten it right. It seems like it picked up right where "E.T", "Goonies" and "Gremlins" left off

    ButtercheeseCrevsDaak
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    edited March 2017
    @jjstraka34 Yeah, the show was pretty good. I loved the kids in this, well written and played child characters are a rarity. (Plus, I am a sucker for period pieces.)

    @BelleSorciere Oh, no doubt about how it keeps the industry alive.

    How ever, when I mean posers I mean the type of people who take part in the subculture without actually being part of it. In this case the type of people who never actually played a traditional pen & paper session and got all their knowledge about it third hand.

    How people play is absolutely their own business and different people enjoy different play styles, all of which are valid and good in their own ways. I just don't want to be put in the same box as anyone who never actually played. I have met quite a few people like that by now and I find it disapointing each and every time.

    Especially the type of people who claim they are a P&P fan even though they never played with anyone because they allegedly have no one to play with, which is 99% of the time just bs (especially in the days of Skype and Roll20). I have found most of my groups either through social media or my local gaming store so far. If someone can't find a group it's usually because they don't want to put the effort into finding one, they are just not social enough to persue this hobby or something along those lines. P&P is at it's core is a social hobby. "If there's a will, there's a way."

    I hope that makes sense?

    PS: I am well aware that this makes me sound like a self-entitled jerk, but meh :V

    PPS: BASICALLY, what I mean is that (in this context) posers are people who associate themselves with P&P gaming without actually being a gamer, simply because they think it's cool.

    Post edited by Buttercheese on
    TeflonBelleSorcieretbone1
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180

    I have a massive amount of 2nd Edition D&D Books on my Amazon. Wishlist. There is no conceivable way I'd ever be able to use them. I just want them for the art and lore.

    @jjstraka34 I'm hearing you on FM there dude. I was a fool to loan out some of my 1st ed stuff a while back. Old D&D stuff is like the ol rule "don't loan out your wife to help, your truck, or your gun, cause nothin good's gonna come out of it". :)

    Teflon
  • TeflonTeflon Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 517
    The first thing comes in mind when see both "D&D" and "EVIL", is Bargle the aleena killer.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180
    Teflon said:

    The first thing comes in mind when see both "D&D" and "EVIL", is Bargle the aleena killer.

    Shoot, I had to look that up cause I did not remember them. Looks they were in the basic REDBOX D&D which I had but never really used, next to AD&D. I did have it though, that and the old , blue cover book. THe old Caves of Chaos basic D&D module was IMO one of the best ever adventure made.

    Teflon
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 701
    edited March 2017
    This is pretty much the reason I grew up playing cRPGs rather than PnP. They read a statement of concern over the pulpit at my church. That and my cousins invited me to play a game and all they could focus on was a magical bra that made females well-endowed (3 hours of that instead of actual role-playing kinda killed it for me, not the fact that they were being pre-pubescent teenagers). I finally did some real PnP for the first time last year--5e with my roommates. Unfortunately the DM focused too much on objectives instead of the story. Supposedly we were playing Ravenloft. I couldn't really tell that it was since there wasn't much story (though admittedly, my experience is limited to Strahd's Possession and Stone Prophet). Two out of four party members were too objective oriented as well, pretty much just focusing on combat and rarely making decisions or acting their character's personality out. The other player was a fantastic role-player though, so we had fun with it anyway.

    It's too bad people get agendas against certain forms of entertainment. It reminds me of Footloose. I feel like I have missed out on a whole entertainment medium growing up just because a handful of idiots imagined role-playing as some occult practice.

    Post edited by themazingness on
    ThacoBellCrevsDaak
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,180
    edited March 2017


    It's too bad people get agendas against certain forms of entertainment. It reminds me of Footloose. I feel like I have missed out on a whole entertainment medium growing up just because a handful of idiots imagined role-playing as some occult practice.

    It's a weird country, some of the same folks that were (are)against D&D or other similar things are ok with other stuff that actually does cause problems.

    Never to late for PnP. A good group needs a) a good DM, and b) real serious 'roleplaying' players(like the one you had)if that means anything). A good DM can guide his players to better focus.

    To be honest, from just glancing through the later editions it looks to be almost driven to power gaming combat. Maybe I am wrong here.

    Hehheh, some 'younguns' do focus as I recall on the +5 bras of boobishness( ending up coming off as real boobs themselves. I put this into the same boat as the 'Monty Haul' campaigns were experience points and magic items(and playing platinum dragons for PC's, :s ) flowed like wine at an uptown bar.

    themazingness
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