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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Hollywood has REALLY turned me off new movies in the last few years. The only recent movie I've seen lately is Shin Godzilla. I thought it was pretty darn good, going back to the franchise's roots with Godzilla being basically a force of nature and treated very seriously. There is a lot of untapped potential for horror in Kaiju movies. It even throws in some hilarious ribs at Japanese beurocracy.
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  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    i completely forgot to go see the The Foreigner, glad to hear it was good, once it's on demand or some such, i will have to give it a watch
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited December 2017
    Wonder Woman
    A fine example that it's not the story itself that really matters, but the proper execution of it. Almost felt like I was watching quality anime in live-action instead of drawn.
    Of all the comics-based movies of the last decade, I think only Avengers and Winter Soldier are ahead, and the Batman trilogy by C. Nolan.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    Ardanis said:

    Wonder Woman
    A fine example that it's not the story itself that really matters, but the proper execution of it. Almost felt like I was watching quality anime in live-action instead of drawn.
    Of all the comics-based movies of the last decade, I think only Avengers and Winter Soldier are ahead, and the Batman trilogy by C. Nolan.

    i only had one gripe with wonder woman, and that gripe was there was no stakes, the thing about prequels with characters that have already been shown, is that you KNOW that the good guy isn't going to lose, so no matter what happens you just say; lulz, she can't lose because we know she's alive in batman vs superman, and with the 2nd movie coming out, rumor has it that it's going to take place in the 80s, again why? again no stakes, we know she is alive and well in 2016 or so, so it makes no sense for a movie done in the past, UNLESS they make it so the main baddie survives and perhaps she will have to face him/her/it in the future, then i would be satisfied with that, but i can predict the 2nd movie: stuff happens, wonder woman keeps kicking butt, finds main baddie, has "epic" battle where wonder woman almost loses and then miraculously she wins in the end anyway because again, how else would she be in batty vs super chum

    now with that being said, wonder woman was decent, but because of the no stakes thing, it kind of ruined it for me, so hopefully with the 2nd one, the do something neat, because again the "no stakes" clause is going to be there, so hopefully they will be clever on how they make the 2nd movie
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @typo_tilly Almost everything is either a remake or a sequal. Usualy of less quality than what it was based on, and even "original" films check off the same boxes I've been seeing for 20 years. I've just started enjoying older movies more and newer movies less with a few exceptions.


    Oh if anyone here missed "Kubo and the Two Strings" last year, check it out. It a lavishly animated stop motion film from Laika, based on an old fairytale. The acting is really good and it has that great balance of whimsy and danger that a lot of fairytales use. I've sat friends down in front of it and they swore up and down that it HAD to be cgi until they saw the credits.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    sarevok57 said:

    but i can predict the 2nd movie: stuff happens, wonder woman keeps kicking butt, finds main baddie, has "epic" battle where wonder woman almost loses and then miraculously she wins in the end anyway because again, how else would she be in batty vs super chum

    It's not like Marvel-based movies are any bit different. Frankly, I'd be quite surprised if it played out differently from that, since I expected from the beginning to see exactly what you described and nothing else much.
    The reason I give it higher rating is because it does a good job of actually playing that classic formula straight. That, and I especially liked the
    No Man's Land scene. There was something very heartwarming and charming about grizzled soldiers, embittered by months spent in the trenches under continuous artillery fire, having their spirit and morale rekindled by a naive idealistic girl (which is exactly what Diana is in the movie, on psychological level) fearlessly stepping forward to face death for the sake of doing the humane thing.

    Also bonus points for great music score and Gal Gadot's physique perfectly fitting the ancient Greek theme.
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  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2017
    Best movies (I've seen) in 2017:

    1. The Last Jedi. The movie that reinvegorates a tired franchise, if not the best movie in the series, certainly the deepest. Reminded me of a Babylon 5 quote: "this isn't just some deap space franchise, this place is about something!" Also showstopping acting from the old hands, and even Daisy Ridly proves she can act after all.
    2. Blade Runner 2049. Suprisingly, shares a common theme with TLJ:
    You don't have to be the Chosen One to be a hero.

    3. Paddington 2. A suprise entry at number 3, this movie pulls off the trick of being a sequal that is superior to the original film, wifh bonus points for a clever homage to the children's TV version I grew up with.
    4. Dunkirk. Just see the movie already.

    Honourable mention: Wonder Woman, Spiderman: Homecoming, Goodbye Christopher Robin.



    Worst movie (that I paid to see) in 2017:

    1. Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Shmaltzy, purile humor, lousy music and slow, this film marked the point where my superhero fatigue became terminal. Such a shame because I really liked the first one.
  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336
    All the 2017 movies I've seen have been garbage.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2017
    Oh, not a cinema movie, but Netflix Spectral gets another honourable mention, for being just like an old-school Doctor Who story (before it became pretentious and sentimental). Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow!
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Star Wars, Last Jedi

    Bad, just bad.
    Almost to the point of it being bad in a good way (have to say that because we were all laughing during and at the end because it was so terrible).

    I didn't see SW as a child, I was seventeen when A New Hope came out so please don't throw the "well of course you hated it you were just a kid when the first films came out".

    Overlong, boring, appalling dialogue, poor acting, storyline that went nowhere, storylines that were started in TFA abruptly ended, no development of characters, TPM level of "lets show something using CGI because it will be so cool", pointless subplots that went nowhere and enough "jump the shark" moments to make anything anyone ever does on screen from now on look like a documentry in comparison.

    Never thought I'd say it but finally SW has been killed for me. And this from a person who once, when very seriously ill, dreamt that Luke Skywalker visited and said dying would be OK and nothing to worry about (though that may have been the drugs).

    And the preaching, OMG, the preaching.
    Strange as it may seem in this day and age, as a woman I rather like men. I really don't believe that they are all useless or that women are all wonderful.
    And the really, really annoying thing is that, as has recently been proven, the a'holes in Hollywood who pump out this garbage believe exactly the opposite.

    Rant over, sorry, it was bad.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    It didn't come out this year, but since I picked it up on Blu-Ray about a month ago, I have to say that "Mad Max: Fury Road" is really some kind of masterful accomplishment as a chase/vehicle movie. On the same trip to Best Buy, I also got "War for the Planet of the Apes", and those 3 movies (as a trilogy) are as good as we are likely to see as far as Hollywood blockbusters go.

    I thought "The Last Jedi" was excellent. And if people really think it's worse than the prequels, please go watch "The Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones" again. I don't see where the preaching complaint comes from in regards to this movie. The argument of the movie was not that men are useless. It was that Poe's brash, take action immediately attitude had dire consequences because he wasn't taking even 15 seconds to think things through. His story arc was about being taught a lesson about the consequences of your actions. It just so happened that his superiors in the movie were women. This idea that the new Star Wars trilogy hates men is, frankly, mystifying.

    There was bad dialogue in the original movies too. Some of the dialogue in "Attack of the Clones" is legitimately some of the worst that has ever been put on film. Nothing in "The Last Jedi" from a script perspective even approached Lucas's level of incompetence in regards to the prequels. The worst complaint you can make about "The Last Jedi" is that it's Star Wars meets a Marvel movie. Well, most Marvel movies are fairly entertaining, at worst.

    Beyond that, it was time for Star Wars to grow up and move on. If it had went the way everyone wanted it to, we would be seeing the exact same story we saw the last two times, in which a robed, Dark-side figurehead ends up being the focal point of the climax of the third movie. We've done it twice. More than anything, "The Last Jedi" was a message to people who spent the 2 year gap between movies filling their heads with ever more elaborate fan theories to just chill out and relax. Almost everything that was "set up" in the "The Force Awakens" was endless post-movie theorizing about Snoke, or Rey's parents. All of which turned out to be nothing, because they weren't really anything to begin with if you remove the thousands of YouTube videos focused on the subject from the equation. "The Force Awakens" had one job, which was to rebuild the myth after a decade of looking back at the prequels and going "yikes". So it retold the story of "A New Hope". It was sleek, elegant, entertaining, and comfortably predictable. "The Last Jedi", not having that burden, was free to tear the myth down and move forward without the burdens of these impossible fan expectations, or an internet culture that seems to enjoy hating things simply for the sake of doing so.

    My guess is that if the internet had existed in 1980, the backlash we are seeing against "The Last Jedi" would have been the exact same things being said about "The Empire Strikes Back". I can hear them right now....."Luke is getting trained by a muppet". In hindsight, "Empire" stands alone with "The Godfather II" as the best sequels of all-time, and also the only ones that make a real claim to being better than their predecessor. I don't think "The Last Jedi" is in that category, simply because even though I enjoy the new trilogy, it isn't ever going to be the old one. I don't even necessarily think it's better than "The Force Awakens". But I think it IS a movie that took some major risks, and that it needs to be applauded for doing so. If nothing else, it avoided complete stagnation. We now have NO clue what is going to happen in Episode IX. And thank god for that.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    @jjstraka34

    No.
    Unacceptable.

    You don't get to dismiss people's opinions of a film by inventing the straw man argument that they have been engaging in certain behavior, be it obsessing about the franchise, watching YT videos or being on the internet.
    That's not argument or opinion sharing, it's attempted character assasination.

    I hated the film and wrote what I thought about it.
    At no point did I find it necessary to throw accusations at people who enjoyed it or give spurious and invented reasons as to why they might have enjoyed it.

    You should employ the same courtesy.

    And who is this "we"?
    You speak for nobody but yourself.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017

    @jjstraka34

    No.
    Unacceptable.

    You don't get to dismiss people's opinions of a film by inventing the straw man argument that they have been engaging in certain behavior, be it obsessing about the franchise, watching YT videos or being on the internet.
    That's not argument or opinion sharing, it's attempted character assasination.

    I hated the film and wrote what I thought about it.
    At no point did I find it necessary to throw accusations at people who enjoyed it or give spurious and invented reasons as to why they might have enjoyed it.

    You should employ the same courtesy.

    And who is this "we"?
    You speak for nobody but yourself.

    I wasn't even addressing you directly. If I had meant to do so, I would have quoted your post. I was addressing what I see a broad swath of the criticisms of the film are. If some of yours happened to overlap, that certainly isn't surprising, but it isn't an attack on your opinion. I read a post that was very much against the film (yours), so I simply decided to write a post defending the film. At no point do I single out anyone, simply pointing to arguments being made against the film that millions of people apparently share that I happen to disagree with, and what I think some of the reasons for the vast disparity in critic/audience reaction to the film might be. Again, I didn't say a word about you or your opinion, nor did I intend to. A harshly negative post about the film is going to open up a discussion about it's merits either way. But, again, it wasn't meant as a direct response to your PERSONAL criticism, but criticisms I have seen all over the place. My post had nothing to do with what @UnderstandMouseMagic 's view of the film was, but what the general consensus among those who dislike the film seems to be. That is the specific reason I didn't quote your post before making mine. Apologies if there was a misconstrued intent, but it was not the purpose or the aim of the post I wrote. In fact, I made deliberate use of specific pronouns throughout the entire post to specifically avoid this type of misunderstanding.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2017
    You could argue that TLJ was anti-women, because
    Ray nievely abandons her training to try to save Kylo, which she fails to do, Rose makes stupid decisions out of love, and Hodo fails to show the leadership required to keep her team on board
    or you could enjoy it as a mature drama in which all the characters, male and female, are tested and have to learn from thier mistakes.
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2017


    My guess is that if the internet had existed in 1980, the backlash we are seeing against "The Last Jedi" would have been the exact same things being said about "The Empire Strikes Back". I can hear them right now....."Luke is getting trained by a muppet".

    As someone who remembers 1980, I can assure you the hate was much worse than that. The "I am your farther" revelation "contradicted and undermined" the previous film, and it had "no proper ending". I didn't like the revelation about Luke's parentage myself, being only 12. And the muppet. It wasn't until around 10 years later that everyone decided it was a wonderful classic that they had always admired.

    Oh yes, and it had a wierd "B" feature shown in front of it.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    edited December 2017
    Let's see:

    Logan: fantastic first half, gets tired on the end. Best possible conclusion though.

    Alien Covenant: not quite the success, disapointing. Not a total disaster but had it been another franchise it would be anecdotic.

    Blade Runner 2049: my wet dream, a Blade Runner fan movie with a hollywood budget. Thank you Sony pictures for this, for allowing Villeneuve and the gang to make their movie freely. Thanks to the chief operator for this super photography, thanks to the actors who put everything they had in... This is instant cult movie to me.

    Star Wars VIII: would be a shit movie if not a Star Wars. I have contrasted views on it, some points are good, lots are bad. Still it offers really nice image and is the second best directed Star Wars after the V. However a good photography is not enough to make a good movie IMO.

    Hated the humour in that movie. The "Hugs/Hux" thing took me out of the movie outright from the very first minute (awful way to start). next Luke milking that weirdo cow sent me back to the Episode I when that strange creature on Tatooine farts loudly on Jar-Jar Binks. The nuns on atchu, why not rabbi aliens working for the banking clan while we're at it (can't be worse, can it?) and then the ironing on the imperial coat. Am I watching Star Wars or Spaceballs (and spaceballs was funny, mind you).



    I stopped following the MCU line of movie after Doctor Strange. It's been a while I stopped liking those movies and at the end it felt like watching them because I watched the first ones and feeling like going on... but I really wasn't enjoying them. So I didn't watch Spider-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (man, I hated the 1 to such a point, I know hate is a strong term but it was such a torture to watch it I really feel so) nor Thor 3 (same comment for Thor 1 & 2 than for the Guardians of the Galaxy)
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377
    edited December 2017
    The movie that surprised me so negatively was Death Note (2017) but i guess it was expected you cant add the scenario from 25 (those were the good ones) episodes of 24 minutes in a movie of 1:41:00 and either the director or one of the writers had created a social media account that received so many bad messages that the account was deleted...
    Post edited by dreamtraveler on
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    My opinion on The Last Jedi:

    I didn't like it, for many reasons. There were too many moments that interrupted my suspension of disbelief:

    Leia flying through space. It looked like a scene from 1980's "Supergirl". I didn't think "Oh, cool" like I was supposed to. I just thought "Good lord, that's corny. She should have died in the explosion, and Kylo Ren should have made the shot. That would have been so much a better story for both characters, a more heroic ending for Leia, and we'd have the depth of exploring how Kylo Ren killed both his parents.

    Dropping bombs in zero gravity. Luke astrally projecting over light years. It would have been so much more satisfying for him to have actually been there, and sacrificing himself to save the Resistance. The list of disappointing and unbelievable moments that took me out of the movie is long.

    Why didn't the admiral just tell her pilots what the plan was? There was no good reason, military or otherwise, for her to be such a jerk about it, to the point of causing a mutiny. It was done only to set up a phony conflict between her and Poe, and to rub our faces in "The hotshot flyboys are always wrong."

    Throwing away Admiral Ackbar with a single line, giving a very unsatisfying end to a beloved one-note character. Throwing away all the potential Snoke had to be an interesting villain. Throwing away the whole storyline about Rey's mysterious parentage.

    The unsatisfying endings of things just never stopped.


    The tone was dark, the lighting was dark, and what attempts there were to make it fun didn't work for me. The whole storyline with the casino didn't fit, and the relationship between those two characters didn't work.

    Finn should have sacrificed himself in a noble end. It would have been so satisfying and emotionally deep. (Same with Luke - the middle movie needed a tragic ending. Our heroes needed heroic ends.) Rose stopping him was just wrong, on so many levels. She almost doomed the whole Resistance, and would have if not for Rey and Luke. For what? A schoolgirl crush on a pilot?


    In a way, this movie's main theme was the deconstruction of heroes. I'm not a fan of modern deconstruction in any of its forms, and I especially don't want it in a Star Wars story. I think we need more heroes in our collective consciousness, not fewer.

    For me, this movie was just terrible - an epic fail.

    From what I've seen online, fans are divided roughly 50-50 in opinions about it. What a shame. We need stories that bring us together, not divide us.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2017
    The idea that heroes are someone else - special parents, special powers, superior judgement - was an idea that needed deconstructing.

    Like "America first".
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    all that i've seen:

    great:
    (none)

    good / good-ish:
    get out (the best)
    okja (sorta interesting)
    life (meh)
    brad's status (heavily mediocre but i liked it)
    dunkirk (mixed bag)

    bearable:
    suntan (mixed, good first half)
    atomic blonde (bearably annoying)
    personal shopper (don't remember, mostly ok)

    unbearable:
    the amazing female (no)
    alien the lost ark (just no)
    spiderman something something (no no)
    justice superhero something (no god no)

    didn't see:
    wars of the blade monkeys (don't care)
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2017
    Couldn't get spoiler tags to work so deleted post.

    To say something else, I'm wondering over the criterion people use to decide which movies to see? There seem to be quite a few people complaining about a lack of good movies who haven't seen some of the ones I have. Some of most interesting ones I saw where chosen by my wife.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    I don't go to the cinema much. There's one reason for this, while my town has a superb cinema, built in a former main battle tank factory (no joke) they only show dubbed movie and I think it's shit. So I really don't go to cinema much. I'd rather have beers.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    In direct regards to the subversion of expectations, I'll list all the ones I can think of from "The Last Jedi":

    1.) Someone (that being Poe) getting their ass chewed for acting like a hotshot and getting people killed despite being "successful". This is Poe's entire story-arc, and his lesson is delivered by two mature (yes, female) characters, who also happened to be powerhouse actresses.

    2.) Finn not being allowed to kill himself by flying into the super-weapon. Again, a brash move that is seen in all movies, that would have essentially served no purpose here. And Rose (here is the teaching moment again) Finn that he is better off to the Rebellion alive than dead.

    3.) Leia NOT dying in the blast. That was exactly what I thought would happen. I also expected Kylo Ren to do it. Turns out the little bastard is more conflicted than that, able to make that move against his father but not his mother. Or maybe Leia reached out with the Force and prevented it. Who knows?? As for her flying through space, I would argue it isn't flying and it's floating, and while that scene was a few seconds too long, in the world of Star Wars, it doesn't strike me as all that egregious.

    4.) Snoke being killed. This is really the big one. And the most surprising. Simply for the fact that Andy Serkis was KILLING it in his scenes. So on one hand, I would have loved to have seen him play the character more. Same can be argued of Boba and Jango Fett and Darth Maul. But his death was a genuine shock, and totally destroys this whole Master/Apprentice dynamic (at least for the time being). Kylo Ren knew Snoke saw him as weak, was quite frankly pissed at him, and decided he wanted the power of the First Order for himself.

    5.) Rey's parentage being......nothing. I can't think of anything that would have been more boring, predictable or cliche than Rey being the daughter of Luke, or Obi-Wan, or whoever. It turns out, her parents were nobodies who sold her for pocket change. The reason this is important is that it now establishes you don't have to be of the royal Skywalker blood-line to be a hero. This is also reinforced by the very beautiful final scene of one of the slave kids on the casino planet (a direct result of the excusion alot of people claim has no point).

    6.) Luke projecting himself to the fight. Looking back, I should have predicted this as it was happening, but when you are caught up in the moment, you don't see the little details. What a swerve, and while many will claim "Jedi can't do that", they apparently can, but at great, great cost, as Luke dies as a result of the toll it takes physically. Staring at two suns. Perfect.


    All in all, I think the cameo by a long-time favorite character sums up the movie best. Failure is the greatest teacher. It's a running theme throughout the film. That and deconstruction of the myth, and expectations. Which some people are naturally going to be upset about.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Fardragon said:


    My guess is that if the internet had existed in 1980, the backlash we are seeing against "The Last Jedi" would have been the exact same things being said about "The Empire Strikes Back". I can hear them right now....."Luke is getting trained by a muppet".

    As someone who remembers 1980, I can assure you the hate was much worse than that. The "I am your farther" revelation "contradicted and undermined" the previous film, and it had "no proper ending". I didn't like the revelation about Luke's parentage myself, being only 12. And the muppet. It wasn't until around 10 years later that everyone decided it was a wonderful classic that they had always admired.

    Oh yes, and it had a wierd "B" feature shown in front of it.
    Ever thought that being only 12 may have coloured your perceptions of the film?
    And that because you didn't like it you searched for confirmation of your opinion?

    20yo when it came out.
    Went to see it in Leicester Square at a massive 5,000 seat cinema, (always went "up West" for the blockbusting films) the first week it came out.
    And then with friends again the following week, and then with anybody who hadn't seen it yet, the following weeks.
    Was always full, you could hear the audience reaction to the revelations, people laughed where they were meant to and sat in tense silence when it mattered. And pretty much sat there at the end not wanting to believe it had ended.

    This one, you could hear the audience laughing, but not at the "jokes", and the sounds of disbelief as they watched it. And as we walked out, heard the remarks and they were hardly positive. The children liked it I suppose, but the child sitting next to me was bored and fidgeting.



  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017

    Fardragon said:


    My guess is that if the internet had existed in 1980, the backlash we are seeing against "The Last Jedi" would have been the exact same things being said about "The Empire Strikes Back". I can hear them right now....."Luke is getting trained by a muppet".

    As someone who remembers 1980, I can assure you the hate was much worse than that. The "I am your farther" revelation "contradicted and undermined" the previous film, and it had "no proper ending". I didn't like the revelation about Luke's parentage myself, being only 12. And the muppet. It wasn't until around 10 years later that everyone decided it was a wonderful classic that they had always admired.

    Oh yes, and it had a wierd "B" feature shown in front of it.
    Ever thought that being only 12 may have coloured your perceptions of the film?
    And that because you didn't like it you searched for confirmation of your opinion?

    20yo when it came out.
    Went to see it in Leicester Square at a massive 5,000 seat cinema, (always went "up West" for the blockbusting films) the first week it came out.
    And then with friends again the following week, and then with anybody who hadn't seen it yet, the following weeks.
    Was always full, you could hear the audience reaction to the revelations, people laughed where they were meant to and sat in tense silence when it mattered. And pretty much sat there at the end not wanting to believe it had ended.

    This one, you could hear the audience laughing, but not at the "jokes", and the sounds of disbelief as they watched it. And as we walked out, heard the remarks and they were hardly positive. The children liked it I suppose, but the child sitting next to me was bored and fidgeting.
    "The Empire Strikes Back" also made far less money than the original, which was also the case with "Attack of the Clones" and is certainly seeming to be the case for "The Last Jedi". In both the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy, the third movie easily surpassed the second at the box office. The money seems to be saying that people have always had a problem with the second movies. Same can be said about Indiana Jones really, as "Temple of Doom" gets beaten down to this day, despite being my favorite by leaps and bounds
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377
    Is there a movie that trolls the audience ?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Is there a movie that trolls the audience ?

    Far too much money involved to do something like that. The closest thing I can come up with what you are asking is whatever the hell "The Walking Dead" has been doing for the past two seasons, but that is television.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    In direct regards to the subversion of expectations, I'll list all the ones I can think of from "The Last Jedi":

    1.) Someone (that being Poe) getting their ass chewed for acting like a hotshot and getting people killed despite being "successful". This is Poe's entire story-arc, and his lesson is delivered by two mature (yes, female) characters, who also happened to be powerhouse actresses.

    2.) Finn not being allowed to kill himself by flying into the super-weapon. Again, a brash move that is seen in all movies, that would have essentially served no purpose here. And Rose (here is the teaching moment again) Finn that he is better off to the Rebellion alive than dead.

    3.) Leia NOT dying in the blast. That was exactly what I thought would happen. I also expected Kylo Ren to do it. Turns out the little bastard is more conflicted than that, able to make that move against his father but not his mother. Or maybe Leia reached out with the Force and prevented it. Who knows?? As for her flying through space, I would argue it isn't flying and it's floating, and while that scene was a few seconds too long, in the world of Star Wars, it doesn't strike me as all that egregious.

    4.) Snoke being killed. This is really the big one. And the most surprising. Simply for the fact that Andy Serkis was KILLING it in his scenes. So on one hand, I would have loved to have seen him play the character more. Same can be argued of Boba and Jango Fett and Darth Maul. But his death was a genuine shock, and totally destroys this whole Master/Apprentice dynamic (at least for the time being). Kylo Ren knew Snoke saw him as weak, was quite frankly pissed at him, and decided he wanted the power of the First Order for himself.

    5.) Rey's parentage being......nothing. I can't think of anything that would have been more boring, predictable or cliche than Rey being the daughter of Luke, or Obi-Wan, or whoever. It turns out, her parents were nobodies who sold her for pocket change. The reason this is important is that it now establishes you don't have to be of the royal Skywalker blood-line to be a hero. This is also reinforced by the very beautiful final scene of one of the slave kids on the casino planet (a direct result of the excusion alot of people claim has no point).

    6.) Luke projecting himself to the fight. Looking back, I should have predicted this as it was happening, but when you are caught up in the moment, you don't see the little details. What a swerve, and while many will claim "Jedi can't do that", they apparently can, but at great, great cost, as Luke dies as a result of the toll it takes physically. Staring at two suns. Perfect.


    All in all, I think the cameo by a long-time favorite character sums up the movie best. Failure is the greatest teacher. It's a running theme throughout the film. That and deconstruction of the myth, and expectations. Which some people are naturally going to be upset about.
    My wife noticed that Luke wasn't leaving any footprints in the salt.
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