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[MOD] PS:T Unfinished Business - Reloaded

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Comments

  • flashmozzgflashmozzg Member Posts: 2
    Hello. I've just started playing this great game. Does it make sense to install this mode if this is my 1st time playing? Also, will it work on existing save? Wouldn't want to replay all the quests I already did (probably would take me 10+ hours).

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577

    Hello. I've just started playing this great game. Does it make sense to install this mode if this is my 1st time playing? Also, will it work on existing save? Wouldn't want to replay all the quests I already did (probably would take me 10+ hours).

    Most additions of the mod fit well into the game and should be fine even for a first run. But I would advise against installing the two components not included in the "Recommended list of components" - "Expanded Deionarra's Truth Mod" and "Restored Item Cheats (Not Recommended)". The former adds quite a bit of new stuff and might contain difficult to solve situations, the latter should be self-explanatory.

    I strongly recommend to start a new game when you install this mod to avoid issues. Although it's probably safe to keep playing if you haven't left the Mortuary yet (or use the last save from inside the Mortuary).

    Just note that the mod is currently in beta and might still contain a bug or two.

  • flashmozzgflashmozzg Member Posts: 2
    argent77 said:


    I strongly recommend to start a new game when you install this mod to avoid issues. Although it's probably safe to keep playing if you haven't left the Mortuary yet (or use the last save from inside the Mortuary).

    Ah, too bad =( I've already left Mortuary and did some quests in Hive (though I haven't reached the Pharod yet). Redoing all those would take me quite a while, so I'll probably pass on this mod for the moment.

  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 4
    argent77 said:

    Qwinn didn't add new journal entries to a number of quest, as new content would not be in the spirit of an "Unfinished Business" mod. I tend to agree with him in this regard.

    Actually, the candlestick quest does have a journal entry for the quest.

    I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the candlestick quest 100% doesn't feel like restored content. Or if it's restored content it's been scrapped very early in development with elements of it finding their way into other things. Reasons:


    1) Sheryl's dwelling doesn't match the buried village interior style, it's clearly been lifted from the hive.
    2) The tomb is just the crypt next to the Mortuary interior.
    3) If the portal is supposed to be anywhere it's probably supposed to be in the dead end in the catacombs, not right next to the entrance to the Buried Village.
    4) The enemies in the tomb feel wrong. The skeletons maybe, but the ghoul is way too random.
    5) There is waaaaaay too much loot in there.

    If you ask me that quest is someone learning how to mod PST rather than a worthy restoration of content.


    But that mess has a journal entry. As opposed to that, the yemeth quest actually feels more like something that could have been part of the game and really ought to have something at least. Just saying, academically. Wouldn't mind doing it myself, I just don't know how yet.
    argent77 said:

    Well, the whole Yemeth quest line is a bit unrewarding, since you don't get anything really worthwhile for all your trouble. Qwinn planned (or thought about) to extend the quest a bit and make an involved item more useful, but it apparently came to nothing (possibly because of the same reason mentioned above).

    Oddly enough I'd offer a different perspective :) Try this:

    The Yemeth Quest is pretty rewarding because it does the following:


    -- Gives the two fiends in the smoldering corpse some welcome mechanical meaning instead of having them just stand there lke obvious unfinished content
    -- Gives you a non-powergaming reason to get into a fight with them for a whooping huge bunch of XP
    -- Gives Ilquix a cool and legit reason to transform, which is also awesome and it's delightful to see him join the ruckus
    -- Gives you a bunch more characters to interact with
    -- And the whole "the pendant does nothing" bit actuall works really well IMO, it's not worth anything to YOU, but everybody trying to convince you of this makes the whole thing nicely suspicious and adds to the charm of the quest.


    Where the quest fails, IMO is


    -- The pendant is kinda worth too much money, the quest would work quite a bit better if it was actually not worth all that much
    -- The Eyrines being "stuck" as a collector also kind of screams "this is a contrived way of trying to explain why we don't have a model for this thing".
    -- Also, her being completely helpless to defend herself if you attack her at night is kind of lame. She ought to be tougher I suppose.
    -- Also, there really ought to be a way to get the damned thing off her without killing her.


    Just saying, it's probably the wrong thread for it, but I really ought to get a bit into how you mod these things and give the thing a few tweaks, show you what I mean.

    Post edited by lujo on
    MirakAedanargent77
  • stibiusstibius Member Posts: 17
    argent77 said:

    Qwinn didn't add new journal entries to a number of quest, as new content would not be in the spirit of an "Unfinished Business" mod. I tend to agree with him in this regard.

    You could make it optional then. And the mod already has some new content in the Deionarra part anyway.

  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 7,875
    UB for BG1 and BG2 add quest entries.
    They are not present in the vanilla game because the related content have been cut - it would be reasonable to add them.
    Even BGEE adds new journal entries that were missing in the vanilla game.

    Anyway, keep up the good work! ;)

    Mirakbob_veng
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    lujo said:

    argent77 said:

    Qwinn didn't add new journal entries to a number of quest, as new content would not be in the spirit of an "Unfinished Business" mod. I tend to agree with him in this regard.

    Actually, the candlestick quest does have a journal entry for the quest.

    I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the candlestick quest 100% doesn't feel like restored content. Or if it's restored content it's been scrapped very early in development with elements of it finding their way into other things. Reasons:


    1) Sheryl's dwelling doesn't match the buried village interior style, it's clearly been lifted from the hive.
    2) The tomb is just the crypt next to the Mortuary interior.
    3) If the portal is supposed to be anywhere it's probably supposed to be in the dead end in the catacombs, not right next to the entrance to the Buried Village.
    4) The enemies in the tomb feel wrong. The skeletons maybe, but the ghoul is way too random.
    5) There is waaaaaay too much loot in there.

    If you ask me that quest is someone learning how to mod PST rather than a worthy restoration of content.


    But that mess has a journal entry. As opposed to that, the yemeth quest actually feels more like something that could have been part of the game and really ought to have something at least. Just saying, academically. Wouldn't mind doing it myself, I just don't know how yet.
    That's probably one reason why UB hasn't been included in PST:EE.

    The Candlestick quest consists mostly of existing game resources though, including journal entries. Although the placement of the portal might have been a personal decision by the original mod author.

    stibius said:

    argent77 said:

    Qwinn didn't add new journal entries to a number of quest, as new content would not be in the spirit of an "Unfinished Business" mod. I tend to agree with him in this regard.

    You could make it optional then. And the mod already has some new content in the Deionarra part anyway.

    Yes, that would be a viable option. I'll think about it when the mod is stable enough to leave beta status.

    lujoGubo
  • stibiusstibius Member Posts: 17
    Bug: The line "Would you know of a Collector who has dealings with fiends?" now appears twice in the dialogue with the fiends.

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,756
    edited January 4
    argent77 said:

    lujo said:

    argent77 said:

    Qwinn didn't add new journal entries to a number of quest, as new content would not be in the spirit of an "Unfinished Business" mod. I tend to agree with him in this regard.

    Actually, the candlestick quest does have a journal entry for the quest.

    I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the candlestick quest 100% doesn't feel like restored content. Or if it's restored content it's been scrapped very early in development with elements of it finding their way into other things. Reasons:


    1) Sheryl's dwelling doesn't match the buried village interior style, it's clearly been lifted from the hive.
    2) The tomb is just the crypt next to the Mortuary interior.
    3) If the portal is supposed to be anywhere it's probably supposed to be in the dead end in the catacombs, not right next to the entrance to the Buried Village.
    4) The enemies in the tomb feel wrong. The skeletons maybe, but the ghoul is way too random.
    5) There is waaaaaay too much loot in there.

    If you ask me that quest is someone learning how to mod PST rather than a worthy restoration of content.


    But that mess has a journal entry. As opposed to that, the yemeth quest actually feels more like something that could have been part of the game and really ought to have something at least. Just saying, academically. Wouldn't mind doing it myself, I just don't know how yet.
    That's probably one reason why UB hasn't been included in PST:EE.
    I thought the reason was if you forget the key to open the return portal you get forever stuck without explicit game over. I dropped the exit key intentionally during my first run.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    stibius said:

    Bug: The line "Would you know of a Collector who has dealings with fiends?" now appears twice in the dialogue with the fiends.

    I can't reproduce this behavior on my side. All dialog branches of the fiends contain only a single instance of that reply option. Do you have any other mods installed?

    rede9 said:

    I thought the reason was if you forget the key to open the return portal you get forever stuck without explicit game over. I dropped the exit key intentionally during my first run.

    Sounds a bit construed, but it's still a potential option to deal with. I'll look into it.

  • stibiusstibius Member Posts: 17
    argent77 said:

    stibius said:

    Bug: The line "Would you know of a Collector who has dealings with fiends?" now appears twice in the dialogue with the fiends.

    I can't reproduce this behavior on my side. All dialog branches of the fiends contain only a single instance of that reply option. Do you have any other mods installed?
    I reinstalled the game and now it's ok. So it must have been something else that I had installed, like you said.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    argent77 said:

    rede9 said:

    I thought the reason was if you forget the key to open the return portal you get forever stuck without explicit game over. I dropped the exit key intentionally during my first run.

    Sounds a bit construed, but it's still a potential option to deal with. I'll look into it.
    I have found a solution to this problem. Can someone look over these lines for spelling or wording?
    • This passage is supposed to be the right location for a portal to appear, that would allow you to leave the tomb. According to Ulthera it will only open to someone with an empty purse in their possession, which is notably absent from your inventory.
      • Drop all your money to the ground.
      • Leave.
    • Reluctantly you reach into your backpack and grab your money. Looking back to the corpse of Sheryl's father, you stop hesitating and drop all of it to the ground.
    • To your surprise it vanishes almost instantly into thin air, only to see a portal opening right before you moments later.

    rede9
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 5
    Maybe

    "This looks like the spot where the exit portal should be." In the first paragraph. Much cleaner.


    Oh and

    Instead of the second sentence in that paragraph I'd go with "According to Ulthera it will only open to someone with an empty purse in their possession, and you don't seem to have one." Again, cleaner and less likely to catch someone's eye.


    And while you're altering the quest, if it's not too much of a bother, could you

    Remove the ghoul? It makes the thing look too untidy and slapped together. EDIT: I'd honestly remove all the monsters and lower the loot, making it look like the guy died from not being able to leave.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    I don't want to make any other changes to the quest if possible. The area, loot and enemy selection were simply restored by the mod from existing game resources.

    How does this line sound?
    This archway extends only a few feet into the east wall before coming to an abrupt end. It was here where you expect the portal to appear that would lead you out of this tomb. Unfortunately, you don't have an empty purse in your possession, which is, according to Ulthera, the key to activate it.

    It's more in line with all the other portal-activating dialogs I found in the game.

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,756
    argent77 said:

    argent77 said:

    rede9 said:

    I thought the reason was if you forget the key to open the return portal you get forever stuck without explicit game over. I dropped the exit key intentionally during my first run.

    Sounds a bit construed, but it's still a potential option to deal with. I'll look into it.
    I have found a solution to this problem. Can someone look over these lines for spelling or wording?
    • This passage is supposed to be the right location for a portal to appear, that would allow you to leave the tomb. According to Ulthera it will only open to someone with an empty purse in their possession, which is notably absent from your inventory.
      • Drop all your money to the ground.
      • Leave.
    • Reluctantly you reach into your backpack and grab your money. Looking back to the corpse of Sheryl's father, you stop hesitating and drop all of it to the ground.
    • To your surprise it vanishes almost instantly into thin air, only to see a portal opening right before you moments later.

    Terrific. You managed a dead end in this EE.

    lujo
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 5
    The "was" in the second sentence is grammatically incorrect. It's also sort of impossible get the words/phrases in that sentence to line up in an elegant and gramatically correct way (2nd sentence). (My wife and I are looking at it right now, we're both english majors, she's also a professional translator from multiple languages to English. Just saying.) Rather try:

    "You would expect the portal that leads out of the tomb to appear here."


    As the second sentence.

    argent77Aedanbob_veng
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    edited January 5
    @lujo Thank you. It does look better now indeed.

    Do you have a suggestion how to improve this sentence as well? It doesn't sound right to me yet (especially the second half).
    "Reluctantly you reach into your backpack and grab your money. Looking back to the corpse of Sheryl's father, you stop hesitating and drop all of it to the ground."

    lujo
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 5
    There's several problems there :)



    1) I'm not sure you having a "backpack" is ever mentioned explicitly, so it might stand out as added by someone else.
    2) Sentence structure, but you know this.

    Go for, IMO:

    "As reluctant as one might be to part with their money, a single wayward look at the body of Sheryl's father makes you reach for it with no hesitation. Before long it's all on the ground."


    There might be better ways to put it, though, I'm in the middle of something right now. You probably won't regret that wording. EDIT: Eh, I just improved it a bit. EDIT2: And then fixed a wrong word. EDIT3: And improved it a bit, again, lol.

    Post edited by lujo on
    argent77Mirak
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    Yeah, "backpack" is only mentioned by the game's tutorial lines. It's better to leave it out.

    This is the current state of the dialog (with all the changes from above):
    • This archway extends only a few feet into the east wall before coming to an abrupt end. You would expect the portal that leads out of the tomb to appear here. Unfortunately, you don't have an empty purse in your possession, which is, according to Ulthera, the key to activate it.
      • Either "Leave all your money behind." or "Drop all your money to the ground." (I prefer the first option.)
      • Leave.
    • As reluctant as one might be to part with their money, a single wayward look at the body of Sheryl's father makes you reach for it with no hesitation. Before long it's all on the ground.
    • To your surprise it vanishes almost instantly into thin air, followed moments later by a portal opening right before you.

    I think it's good enough to be implemented.

    lujo
  • CanzahCanzah Member Posts: 32
    Any chance of the Save Nordom component being implemented into this, seeing as Tweaks doesn't have a port for EE?

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    Canzah said:

    Any chance of the Save Nordom component being implemented into this, seeing as Tweaks doesn't have a port for EE?

    No, UB would not be an appropriate place for that component. There is already a "Save Nordom Tweak" for PST:EE available (see list). Don't know if it works though.

  • SoulReaverSoulReaver Member Posts: 32
    Just want to congratulate and thank you on taking up (and actually progressing) this project. Unfinished Business not being included was the only reason I haven't installed PST: EE yet.

    Personally I'm not against new content (like journal entries) being added to fill in the blanks to make restored content feel more 'finished', but I understand why some people wouldn't like that - so perhaps best to make it optional?

    Aedan
  • SoulReaverSoulReaver Member Posts: 32
    edited January 8
    Before I forget: I have one more suggestion. This is of course just my opinion, but...

    While I agree with it being included, I think the "Restored More Morte Mortuary Moments" restoration should not be counted as part of a 'recommended' install (particularly for newcomers).

    I played extensively on the original PS:T with and without the mod, and this one fix - more so than some of the ones that add 'new' content - seemed extremely out-of-place to the point of making the script seem downright clumsy. Morte goes into painful detail about a lot of stuff that is covered again almost verbatim only a tiny bit later in the game... if I remember right, sometimes by himself. It's no wonder these dialogues were removed and the leaner beginning put in.

    Your mileage may vary but I challenge you to play through the mortuary first without and then with the fix to see for yourself the (negative) difference it makes.

    lujoMirakAedan
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    I agree with SoulReaver about Morte's initial dialogue. I've noticed this too.

    --

    Also, I've noticed that restoring the conversation with the woman next to the Smoldering Corpse bar, the one who wants you to break up a fight between her brother and her lover, isn't working properly.

    One thing that happens is that she can approach you anywhere on the map, which confused me a lot because I didn't have any idea where the people I had to talk to ARE. Also, she can approach you in the middle of a fight (this happened more often than not).

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577

    Before I forget: I have one more suggestion. This is of course just my opinion, but...

    While I agree with it being included, I think the "Restored More Morte Mortuary Moments" restoration should not be counted as part of a 'recommended' install (particularly for newcomers).

    I agree, TNO's initial conversation with Morte is rather complex. That's probably not needed at that point of the plot. However, the component is also providing a comment from Morte about Dhaal's book, which is (imo) quite useful even for newcomers. I'll think about your suggestion.

    lujo said:

    Also, I've noticed that restoring the conversation with the woman next to the Smoldering Corpse bar, the one who wants you to break up a fight between her brother and her lover, isn't working properly.

    One thing that happens is that she can approach you anywhere on the map, which confused me a lot because I didn't have any idea where the people I had to talk to ARE. Also, she can approach you in the middle of a fight (this happened more often than not).

    Yeah, I've noticed it too. She approached my near the fake door where the Starved Dogs were hanging around. She walks (slowly) back to the location where the quest is supposed to take place, but it takes quite a while and can be a bit confusing. I'll see if it can be improved somewhat.

    lujo
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    Regarding this:

    While I agree with it being included, I think the "Restored More Morte Mortuary Moments" restoration should not be counted as part of a 'recommended' install (particularly for newcomers).

    I'm thinking about turning this component into two subcomponents to choose from: 1. Install everything (conversations and comments), 2. Install only Morte's comment on Dhaal's Book.

    "Recommended components" will only include the second option. Thoughts?

    lujoMirakAedan
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 8
    I agree with that.

    --

    Btw, while digging though things with Nearifinity I found the portrait and animations of something called "Ghoul Golem" or something like that, and I don't think I've ever seen that in-game.

    Do you think that might be restoreable to the game if it's unfinished content?

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    edited January 8
    lujo said:

    Btw, while digging though things with Nearifinity I found the portrait and animations of something called "Ghoul Golem" or something like that, and I don't think I've ever seen that in-game.

    Do you think that might be restoreable to the game if it's unfinished content?

    Yeah, the Ghoul Stone Golem. I didn't find any references or hints where it could be used. The associated dialog is just a generic file that is used by many other creatures as well. Judging from the golem stats and XP reward it would probably fit somewhere into the middle or late part of the game. Some references on the web suggest it was initially planned as a guard creature for Lothar.

    Coincidentally, I'm using its creature animation, slightly altered, for flesh golems in my Golem Construction mod. ;)

    Aedanlujo
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    I can't see the XP reward right now but a few things do leap to mind...

    It's portrait has the "sigil-at-night" as a backdrop, and that indicates the obvious, Sigil. If I understood how the monster spawning in the Undersigil worked I'd plop him down there. I never could figure that lone Sohmien in the bottom right corner, so there's something to think about.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but eyeballing it the thing was probably supposed to be in the Undersigil and there was something that was supposed to be behind that door which got scrapped and a Sohmein put in its place and then never revisited. Maybe the quest was that someone made it and asked you to track it down and get rid of it.

    Speculation, I know, but if it was a tough undead, adding it to Undersigil encounters would both make them more varied and give a bit more meaning to becoming a Dustman. I'm very annoyed with how the game only lets you become one after you're kind of done with the undead entirely. Now if there was a mean tough one present in the respawning "dungeon", that's be more like it.

    --

    Alternatively, or additionally, the first thing that came to mind was an appropriately statted version for the tomb in the candlestick quest. I can't stop thinking of ways to spruce that quest up.

    --

    And most importantly - does this mean that creature models from other infinity engine games could reasonably be used in PST:EE?

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,577
    The Ghoul Stone Golem is mentioned in official Planescape sourcebooks as a guard in Lothar's library. (Link, jump down to the Lothar chapter.)

    If I decide to restore this creature, it would most likely be somewhere in Lothar's home.

    lujo said:

    And most importantly - does this mean that creature models from other infinity engine games could reasonably be used in PST:EE?

    Yes, it is possible. However, all creatures with animations that are not of type F000 (i.e. all non-PST animations) are unable to run. There is also the issue of different scales. PST animations are about 25% bigger than BG/IWD animations.

    lujo
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