@Kamigoroshi, if my memory serves me correctly, the backer poll (in which I voted) for T:ToN ended up actually VERY close, almost 50-50, and TB won by literally only a handful of votes.
But yeah, not getting any more T:ToN games is a real shame. I really liked that setting and its lore. A better-funded follow-on game could be so good.
Torment is TB, and the EEs do not count as new games. On the other side there have been quite a number of TB cRPGs released over the past five years. Like I keep saying, just go and do a keyword search for "CRPG" and "turn based" versus "CRPG" and "RTwP" on Steam. The former will generate several pages of games. The latter will not even fill out one page of results.
Ya, I couldn't remember if it was or not and I was attempting to look it up but couldn't find anything. Should have left it out. I knew someone would correct me.
However, I do not agree that the EEs don't count as new games, epically the one I counted PST:EE. I think a lot of people who never played the original would have picked this up and play it for the first time, or kept it on their radar.
As for isometric, turn-based CRPGs through Steam, released from Nov 2016 - Sept 2018 I have:
T:ToN
Atom RPG
Taking out Isometric (as DOS2 didn't even show up, but DOS did...?)but putting in Fantasy instead
We have
Nighingale Downs (mixed review)
DOS2
Grimoire (mixed reviews)
Avadon 3: The Warborn (positive reviews)
So I do still think it applies. DoS2 was the best Fantasy Roleplaying game for a good while. Where RtwP had a lot more to choose from.
the main issue here is we had an oversaturation. we had the original ie being redone for modern systems coming out at the same time as the ones inspired by them.
so it was easier for one to say play bg 1 and 2 or pst and compare them to poe and tides.
had the ee not come out at all the newer crpgs would not look as inferior to some players. but because they came out at the same time you can clearly see why something like poe was lacking compared to say bg 2.
Torment is TB, and the EEs do not count as new games. On the other side there have been quite a number of TB cRPGs released over the past five years. Like I keep saying, just go and do a keyword search for "CRPG" and "turn based" versus "CRPG" and "RTwP" on Steam. The former will generate several pages of games. The latter will not even fill out one page of results.
Ya, I couldn't remember if it was or not and I was attempting to look it up but couldn't find anything. Should have left it out. I knew someone would correct me.
However, I do not agree that the EEs don't count as new games, epically the one I counted PST:EE. I think a lot of people who never played the original would have picked this up and play it for the first time, or kept it on their radar.
As for isometric, turn-based CRPGs through Steam, released from Nov 2016 - Sept 2018 I have:
T:ToN
Atom RPG
Taking out Isometric (as DOS2 didn't even show up, but DOS did...?)but putting in Fantasy instead
We have
Nighingale Downs (mixed review)
DOS2
Grimoire (mixed reviews)
Avadon 3: The Warborn (positive reviews)
So I do still think it applies. DoS2 was the best Fantasy Roleplaying game for a good while. Where RtwP had a lot more to choose from.
You picked a really small tinescale there. I mean if I can list the big ones.
Shadowrun Returns
Shadowrun Dragonfall
Shadow Run Hong Kong
Wasteland 2
Wasteland 2 Directors Cut (if we are counting EE's)
Torment Tides of Numera
The Banner Saga
The Banner Saga 2
The Banner Saga 3
The Bards Tale IV
Xcom Enemy Unknown
Xcom 2
Xcom 2 War of the Chosen
Mutant Year Zero
Divinty OS1
Divinity OS2
Darkest Dungeon
All released in about a from about 2014 onwards I think? And these are just the successful ones. I'm sure there's more deeper and this isn't considering the games that border on more JRPG's stylings like South Park and Dragon Quest.
So I think it's a wierd argument to say that RTWP was somehow more saturated than TB games. I think maybe Obsidian saturated their own games? As I felt poe1 tyanny then poe2 was a pretty rapid development.
crpgs in general were over staruated. there was just way to many coming out and i think it burnt alot of people out. and besides the shadow run games none of the newer ones really grabbed me.
crpgs in general were over staruated. there was just way to many coming out and i think it burnt alot of people out. and besides the shadow run games none of the newer ones really grabbed me.
Ah I get you. I agree they came thick and fast and varying degrees of quality and reception. Its pretty great though I've enjoyed most of them but just wish some tried to break the strategy mold a bit.
crpgs in general were over staruated. there was just way to many coming out and i think it burnt alot of people out. and besides the shadow run games none of the newer ones really grabbed me.
I agree, but I would go further by questioning the extent to which many of those "cRPGs" have actually been RPGs. To me, far too many of the contemporary cRPGs are in reality tactical combat games with some RPG elements mixed in.
crpgs in general were over staruated. there was just way to many coming out and i think it burnt alot of people out. and besides the shadow run games none of the newer ones really grabbed me.
Yeah I really agree with that, in hindsight I think the Shadowrun games were far more elegant in their execution (the roughness of Returns aside) of giving the best of things you want from a CRPG, great setting, writing, characters, gameplay, choices and opportunity for role play. Dragonfall and Hong Kong were just far better to me than the Pillars games (which I played the most, I finished 1 and got like 85% of the way through 2), Pathfinder (its dull), the Original Sin games (first is bland, second I actually think completely sucks) and based on that, yeah BG3 isn't even on my radar really.
I'd love another Shadowrun though, maybe we'll see that once HBS are done with their Battletech commitments.
yeah when i say shadowrun i am talking about dragonfalll and hongkong. they are great games and unlike all the others coming out during the new era try to do their own thing and are not inspired by something else from the past.
Wooah, you really narrowed down the list of CRPG games. Try to search indie games and japanese games too, and you will find, only in 2018-2019:
Knights of the chalice, Legend of heroes: trails in the sky, Trails of cold Steel, Divinity: Fallen Heroes, Disgaea, Forged of Blood, Operencia, Blackguards, Battlechasers, dead state,
Indivisible, Project Sakura Wars, The Hand of Merlin, Overland, Ultimate Adom, Othercide, Tale of Ronin, Ash of gods: Redemption; Dark
Crystal Tactics,Broken lines, Iron Danger, Edge of eternity, Unsung Story:
Tale of the Guardians, Romancing Saga, Soul Saga, Utarerumono: Prelude to the fallen,
Dungeon of Naheulbeuk: The amulet of chaos, Crist Tales, Wildermyth: Stories of the
Yondering Lands, We are the Plague, Eidolons: Nethergate, Encased, Heralds of the Order,
, RAM Pressure, Broken Lines, Grand Guilds, Tenderfoot Tactics, The
Personally I think comparing the subsequent D&D title by Bioware and the title that they literally marketed as their "spiritual successor" to BG are fine, and even positive comparison points for BG3. I'm not sure what people are expecting? Another top-down, 2d, static background game that looks like warcraft2?
I dunno, to me, the game looking similar to what Bioware would have done had it kept making BG games is a favorable, not a disfavorable comparison. Just my opinion, of course.
Did Bioware make Anthem and then market it as a game for BG fans? Perhaps I'm mistaken, I haven't paid attention to them for awhile.
It's just from my point of view, people want Larian to respect the "soul" or whatever of the BG series, and it seems to me if BG3 also resembles the two particular titles I'm mentioning, that seems to me like that studio is trying its hardest to do a faithful, respectful progression of the series. Unless what people really want is an RPG with gameplay that resembles a late 90s RTS?
Comments
But yeah, not getting any more T:ToN games is a real shame. I really liked that setting and its lore. A better-funded follow-on game could be so good.
Ya, I couldn't remember if it was or not and I was attempting to look it up but couldn't find anything. Should have left it out. I knew someone would correct me.
However, I do not agree that the EEs don't count as new games, epically the one I counted PST:EE. I think a lot of people who never played the original would have picked this up and play it for the first time, or kept it on their radar.
As for isometric, turn-based CRPGs through Steam, released from Nov 2016 - Sept 2018 I have:
T:ToN
Atom RPG
Taking out Isometric (as DOS2 didn't even show up, but DOS did...?)but putting in Fantasy instead
We have
Nighingale Downs (mixed review)
DOS2
Grimoire (mixed reviews)
Avadon 3: The Warborn (positive reviews)
So I do still think it applies. DoS2 was the best Fantasy Roleplaying game for a good while. Where RtwP had a lot more to choose from.
so it was easier for one to say play bg 1 and 2 or pst and compare them to poe and tides.
had the ee not come out at all the newer crpgs would not look as inferior to some players. but because they came out at the same time you can clearly see why something like poe was lacking compared to say bg 2.
You picked a really small tinescale there. I mean if I can list the big ones.
Shadowrun Returns
Shadowrun Dragonfall
Shadow Run Hong Kong
Wasteland 2
Wasteland 2 Directors Cut (if we are counting EE's)
Torment Tides of Numera
The Banner Saga
The Banner Saga 2
The Banner Saga 3
The Bards Tale IV
Xcom Enemy Unknown
Xcom 2
Xcom 2 War of the Chosen
Mutant Year Zero
Divinty OS1
Divinity OS2
Darkest Dungeon
All released in about a from about 2014 onwards I think? And these are just the successful ones. I'm sure there's more deeper and this isn't considering the games that border on more JRPG's stylings like South Park and Dragon Quest.
So I think it's a wierd argument to say that RTWP was somehow more saturated than TB games. I think maybe Obsidian saturated their own games? As I felt poe1 tyanny then poe2 was a pretty rapid development.
Ah I get you. I agree they came thick and fast and varying degrees of quality and reception. Its pretty great though I've enjoyed most of them but just wish some tried to break the strategy mold a bit.
Yeah I really agree with that, in hindsight I think the Shadowrun games were far more elegant in their execution (the roughness of Returns aside) of giving the best of things you want from a CRPG, great setting, writing, characters, gameplay, choices and opportunity for role play. Dragonfall and Hong Kong were just far better to me than the Pillars games (which I played the most, I finished 1 and got like 85% of the way through 2), Pathfinder (its dull), the Original Sin games (first is bland, second I actually think completely sucks) and based on that, yeah BG3 isn't even on my radar really.
I'd love another Shadowrun though, maybe we'll see that once HBS are done with their Battletech commitments.
Knights of the chalice, Legend of heroes: trails in the sky, Trails of cold Steel, Divinity: Fallen Heroes, Disgaea, Forged of Blood, Operencia, Blackguards, Battlechasers, dead state,
Indivisible, Project Sakura Wars, The Hand of Merlin, Overland, Ultimate Adom, Othercide, Tale of Ronin, Ash of gods: Redemption; Dark
Crystal Tactics,Broken lines, Iron Danger, Edge of eternity, Unsung Story:
Tale of the Guardians, Romancing Saga, Soul Saga, Utarerumono: Prelude to the fallen,
Dungeon of Naheulbeuk: The amulet of chaos, Crist Tales, Wildermyth: Stories of the
Yondering Lands, We are the Plague, Eidolons: Nethergate, Encased, Heralds of the Order,
, RAM Pressure, Broken Lines, Grand Guilds, Tenderfoot Tactics, The
Protagonist, Arcadian Atlas, Alder’s Blood, ColonyShip-4: Survivors, Guile & Glory:
Firstborn, Monster Sanctuary, Rising Lords,...
https://www.gamepressure.com/games/ps4/rpg/turn-based/33
https://turnbasedlovers.com/lists/top-upcoming-tactical-turn-based-rpgs-of-2019/
Some promising RTwP titles too: Wasteland 3, Realms Beyond, Solasta,
Stygian: Reign of the Old Ones, Black geyser or The Dark eye: Book of Heroes. I loved the
Drakensang titles based in TDE (They also have some RTwP in the franchise, but uses a isometric 3rd person view similar to
Dragon age games),
I mean, it looks like something between NWN and DA:O, not Baldur's Gate.
I also found DA:O compared pretty favorably to BG.
Have ya seen Bioware's stuff lately?
Not sure how the latest Mass Effect is relevant to a comparison of their fantasy CRPG's and even one D&D RPG made right after the BG series.
Then why did you bring it up? If you think it has no relevance here, not really sure why you made the comparison to begin with.
Not to nitpick, but you brought NWN, DA:O, and Bioware's latest stuff into the thread. We responded to that.
I didn't bring up Mass Effect, for the record.
Only in aesthetics.
I dunno, to me, the game looking similar to what Bioware would have done had it kept making BG games is a favorable, not a disfavorable comparison. Just my opinion, of course.
It's just from my point of view, people want Larian to respect the "soul" or whatever of the BG series, and it seems to me if BG3 also resembles the two particular titles I'm mentioning, that seems to me like that studio is trying its hardest to do a faithful, respectful progression of the series. Unless what people really want is an RPG with gameplay that resembles a late 90s RTS?