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COVID-19

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    Fandraxx wrote: »


    Some rare - perhaps much needed - positive points that certainly do some good for the mind right now.

    Gottlieb is a great follow on Twitter, by the way. Former commissioner of the FDA. Highly recommend.

    The problem is we aren't doing any of those things on a national level, and there is no indication we are going to, so what difference does it make?? The leadership on a national level and on certain state levels has already decided they have given up trying to control it in any way and are just going to let it wash over the populace. The country he is talking about might as well be Middle-Earth, because it sure as shit isn't this one. Saying we "need" to act collectively is fine. We aren't actually doing so.

  • FandraxxFandraxx Member Posts: 174
    Literally just sharing a post from arguably one of the most certified men in the country as he offers some potential good news. Just figured it was something that others might be interested in seeing, as well.

    ronaldosmeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    Fandraxx wrote: »
    Literally just sharing a post from arguably one of the most certified men in the country as he offers some potential good news. Just figured it was something that others might be interested in seeing, as well.

    I agree he's a solid person to look towards, but he's talking about a country that doesn't currently exist. Usually, the adage is the US will do the right thing after exhausting every other option. Now we can't even manage that. We started hitting about 40,000 cases a day this week. Texas and Florida are not going to implement stay at home orders. So where does it stop?? Even if (as many people are suggesting) younger people are getting it disproportionately this time around, the sheer volume of cases will make that a moot point.

  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 951
    @Fandraxx you just illustrated a difference in language between your country and the UK. When you said "one of the most certified men in the country", I thought you were insulting the guy until I read @jjstraka34's reply. Why? In the UK there's a phrase that suggests that someone is not sane. They are a certified lunatic...

    TR

    Balrog99ProontFandraxx
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    @Fandraxx you just illustrated a difference in language between your country and the UK. When you said "one of the most certified men in the country", I thought you were insulting the guy until I read @jjstraka34's reply. Why? In the UK there's a phrase that suggests that someone is not sane. They are a certified lunatic...

    TR

    In the US we use 'certifiable' to indicate a person is less than sane. A subtle difference, but likely from the same root source.

  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 951
    In the UK, instead of most certified we'd say most qualified.

    TR

    Balrog99smeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    In the UK, instead of most certified we'd say most qualified.

    TR

    That's normally what we'd say in the States too. My guess is that 'certified' was intentionally used to imply a specific subset of knowledge where certifications are a plus.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    Here is a great summation of where my mind was traveling last night. I was contemplating Trump's weirdly disconnected 'the virus will just go away', and as a lover of Poe in my youth, I started remembering 'Masque of the Red Death'. As I suspected, others made that same connection...

    https://slate.com/culture/2020/03/edgar-allan-poes-masque-of-the-red-death-is-an-allegory-for-the-age-of-coronavirus.html

    Zaxares
  • FandraxxFandraxx Member Posts: 174
    @Fandraxx you just illustrated a difference in language between your country and the UK. When you said "one of the most certified men in the country", I thought you were insulting the guy until I read @jjstraka34's reply. Why? In the UK there's a phrase that suggests that someone is not sane. They are a certified lunatic...

    TR

    I had no idea! A bit funny, I suppose. I just used certified because he certainly is that.

    This isn't the guy who claims to "know a guy who knows someones sister who knows a friend that said X" lol.

    Balrog99
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,693
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,063
    I had thought this was already confirmed.

    Balrog99elminsterProontJuliusBorisov
  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 951
    edited July 9
    I follow QI (Quite Interesting - UK TV comedy-quiz) on twitter. A most recent tweet illustrates the level of paranoia re covid-19 in the USA -
    QI
    American librarians have asked members of the public to stop microwaving their books. People believe it will help protect them against Covid-19 (it won't).

    TR

    Grond0dunbar
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    Well it looks like we'll have at least one data point to predict how things might go when schools open back up in the Fall.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/coronavirus-schools-detroit/index.html

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Well it looks like we'll have at least one data point to predict how things might go when schools open back up in the Fall.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/coronavirus-schools-detroit/index.html

    1 in 3 teachers are over 50 years old. I have no idea how this can work on a national level without meticulous care and planning. The first kid and teacher who die after schools reopen is going to be a massive story, and it will happen. The plan is too scattershot, too rushed, too reckless, and too under-funded .

    ThacoBellProont
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Well it looks like we'll have at least one data point to predict how things might go when schools open back up in the Fall.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/coronavirus-schools-detroit/index.html

    1 in 3 teachers are over 50 years old. I have no idea how this can work on a national level without meticulous care and planning. The first kid and teacher who die after schools reopen is going to be a massive story, and it will happen. The plan is too scattershot, too rushed, too reckless, and too under-funded .

    This is Detroit, not Knoxville or Birmingham. If they're opening up Detroit then there must be a reason for it. My thoughts are that they know that at-home schooling is a joke and the kids will fall too far behind if they don't open the schools up.

    Grond0
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,063
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Well it looks like we'll have at least one data point to predict how things might go when schools open back up in the Fall.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/coronavirus-schools-detroit/index.html

    1 in 3 teachers are over 50 years old. I have no idea how this can work on a national level without meticulous care and planning. The first kid and teacher who die after schools reopen is going to be a massive story, and it will happen. The plan is too scattershot, too rushed, too reckless, and too under-funded .

    This is Detroit, not Knoxville or Birmingham. If they're opening up Detroit then there must be a reason for it. My thoughts are that they know that at-home schooling is a joke and the kids will fall too far behind if they don't open the schools up.

    *Homeschoolers have left the chat*

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Well it looks like we'll have at least one data point to predict how things might go when schools open back up in the Fall.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/coronavirus-schools-detroit/index.html

    1 in 3 teachers are over 50 years old. I have no idea how this can work on a national level without meticulous care and planning. The first kid and teacher who die after schools reopen is going to be a massive story, and it will happen. The plan is too scattershot, too rushed, too reckless, and too under-funded .

    This is Detroit, not Knoxville or Birmingham. If they're opening up Detroit then there must be a reason for it. My thoughts are that they know that at-home schooling is a joke and the kids will fall too far behind if they don't open the schools up.

    *Homeschoolers have left the chat*

    There's nothing wrong with homeschooling except maybe access to sports, the ceiling of parent's knowledge, and the social skills acquired from being with a bunch of kids their age. I personally wouldn't risk it. I'm a public school alumnus and there isn't any reason I can see to send my daughter to private/charter schools. Fuck the fringes, I want my daughter to think for herself.

  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 951
    The problem with homeschooling in the UK is that the poorest in the community don't have access to the internet. One step up from them are the kids who's only access is via their phones. Still not ideal. In normal times such kids would have used the schools facilities or public libraries but both are currently closed. There are charities that have tried to help by providing laptops and tablets. No slur on their efforts but it's not really enough to reach all of the disadvantaged kids.

    TR

    dunbarBalrog99Proont
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,541
    edited July 12
    Also (in the UK) there is a problem when, even if a home has internet access, the one and only computer in poorer households is being used by a parent for working from home, leaving the children to share it (somehow) in the evenings for their schoolwork.

    Balrog99Proont
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,063
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Well it looks like we'll have at least one data point to predict how things might go when schools open back up in the Fall.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/coronavirus-schools-detroit/index.html

    1 in 3 teachers are over 50 years old. I have no idea how this can work on a national level without meticulous care and planning. The first kid and teacher who die after schools reopen is going to be a massive story, and it will happen. The plan is too scattershot, too rushed, too reckless, and too under-funded .

    This is Detroit, not Knoxville or Birmingham. If they're opening up Detroit then there must be a reason for it. My thoughts are that they know that at-home schooling is a joke and the kids will fall too far behind if they don't open the schools up.

    *Homeschoolers have left the chat*

    There's nothing wrong with homeschooling except maybe access to sports, the ceiling of parent's knowledge, and the social skills acquired from being with a bunch of kids their age. I personally wouldn't risk it. I'm a public school alumnus and there isn't any reason I can see to send my daughter to private/charter schools. Fuck the fringes, I want my daughter to think for herself.

    In my experience, its switched. Public just wanted me to repeat what the teacher said, while private school actually taught me critical thinking.
    Parents knowledge isn't really a big factor on homeschooling, there's tons of programs that set out curriculum, so much as the child's interest in learning. Its easier to shirk homeschool work.

    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    Grond0
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,063
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

    Pretty much. I don't think there's going to be much of a choice at this point. We'll have to trust our school superintendents to open them up safely. Would be nice to get them some relief money too, but I'm not holding my breath...

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    edited July 13
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

    Pretty much. I don't think there's going to be much of a choice at this point. We'll have to trust our school superintendents to open them up safely. Would be nice to get them some relief money too, but I'm not holding my breath...

    There are about 50 million public school age children in the US at this point. Even assuming the mortality rate for this age group is as tiny as .01%, you are still talking 5000 dead children if the disease spreads. That's obviously probably a high number, but let's say even a small fraction of that takes place. If you think there is an uproar now, wait till about 100-200 parents of dead kids are on the Today show telling their story. To say nothing of the families of the teachers.

    I saw someone mention the other day that many parents are terrified of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) even though the percentages wouldn't indicate there is much to worry about. This is no different. If there is even a 1/10,000 chance your kid's case could be the one that turns tragic, many, many parents will not take that risk. Anything above zero in their mind's eye is too much.

    ThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

    Pretty much. I don't think there's going to be much of a choice at this point. We'll have to trust our school superintendents to open them up safely. Would be nice to get them some relief money too, but I'm not holding my breath...

    There are about 50 million public school age children in the US at this point. Even assuming the mortality rate for this age group is as tiny as .01%, you are still talking 5000 dead children if the disease spreads. That's obviously probably a high number, but let's say even a small fraction of that takes place. If you think there is an uproar now, wait till about 100-200 parents of dead kids are on the Today show telling their story. To say nothing of the families of the teachers.

    I saw someone mention the other day that many parents are terrified of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) even though the percentages wouldn't indicate there is much to worry about. This is no different. If there is even a 1/10,000 chance your kid's case could be the one that turns tragic, many, many parents will not take that risk. Anything above zero in their mind's eye is too much.

    There's no helping people like that. Barring a miracle-cure or a vaccine, we're going to be living with risk for quite a while. How did we ever survive before vaccines?

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 928
    edited July 13
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

    Pretty much. I don't think there's going to be much of a choice at this point. We'll have to trust our school superintendents to open them up safely. Would be nice to get them some relief money too, but I'm not holding my breath...

    There are about 50 million public school age children in the US at this point. Even assuming the mortality rate for this age group is as tiny as .01%, you are still talking 5000 dead children if the disease spreads. That's obviously probably a high number, but let's say even a small fraction of that takes place. If you think there is an uproar now, wait till about 100-200 parents of dead kids are on the Today show telling their story. To say nothing of the families of the teachers.

    I saw someone mention the other day that many parents are terrified of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) even though the percentages wouldn't indicate there is much to worry about. This is no different. If there is even a 1/10,000 chance your kid's case could be the one that turns tragic, many, many parents will not take that risk. Anything above zero in their mind's eye is too much.

    There's no helping people like that. Barring a miracle-cure or a vaccine, we're going to be living with risk for quite a while. How did we ever survive before vaccines?

    We didn't. Dead children. Millions of dead children. Basically your odds of living to 15 or so was probably about 40%. It's the real anchor as to why life expectancy was so low.

    Good news, after that point, you were probably going to outlive the average life expectancy.

    ThacoBellZaxares
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    edited July 13
    Quickblade wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

    Pretty much. I don't think there's going to be much of a choice at this point. We'll have to trust our school superintendents to open them up safely. Would be nice to get them some relief money too, but I'm not holding my breath...

    There are about 50 million public school age children in the US at this point. Even assuming the mortality rate for this age group is as tiny as .01%, you are still talking 5000 dead children if the disease spreads. That's obviously probably a high number, but let's say even a small fraction of that takes place. If you think there is an uproar now, wait till about 100-200 parents of dead kids are on the Today show telling their story. To say nothing of the families of the teachers.

    I saw someone mention the other day that many parents are terrified of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) even though the percentages wouldn't indicate there is much to worry about. This is no different. If there is even a 1/10,000 chance your kid's case could be the one that turns tragic, many, many parents will not take that risk. Anything above zero in their mind's eye is too much.

    There's no helping people like that. Barring a miracle-cure or a vaccine, we're going to be living with risk for quite a while. How did we ever survive before vaccines?

    We didn't. Dead children. Millions of dead children. Basically your odds of living to 15 or so was probably about 40%. It's the real anchor as to why life expectancy was so low.

    Good news, after that point, you were probably going to outlive the average life expectancy.

    Well I was thinking about the late 19th, early 20th century, not the Middle Ages so I don't think it was quite that bad, but point taken.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,414
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

    Pretty much. I don't think there's going to be much of a choice at this point. We'll have to trust our school superintendents to open them up safely. Would be nice to get them some relief money too, but I'm not holding my breath...

    There are about 50 million public school age children in the US at this point. Even assuming the mortality rate for this age group is as tiny as .01%, you are still talking 5000 dead children if the disease spreads. That's obviously probably a high number, but let's say even a small fraction of that takes place. If you think there is an uproar now, wait till about 100-200 parents of dead kids are on the Today show telling their story. To say nothing of the families of the teachers.

    I saw someone mention the other day that many parents are terrified of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) even though the percentages wouldn't indicate there is much to worry about. This is no different. If there is even a 1/10,000 chance your kid's case could be the one that turns tragic, many, many parents will not take that risk. Anything above zero in their mind's eye is too much.

    IIRC, that story about the Florida girl who went to a COVID party was the second person under 18 to have died from COVID in North America. The first, there were other serious complications involved according to doctors and this Times article: https://time.com/5809385/los-angeles-under-18-died-coronavirus-first-child-united-states/

    Experts have been saying for a couple of months now that those under the age of 12 rarely get, or even spread the virus. It doesn’t act like the Flu. They are baffled by it, but opening up schools safely, especially elementary schools can and should be done.

    That is why experts and not just Trump are saying schools can open up, but like most other social gathering places they need to open up smartly - with mandatory masks, social distancing and opt outs and every other safety measure one can think of.

    There also needs to be plans in place if a school does have an outbreak.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/back-school-what-doctors-say-about-children-covid-19-n1233550

    Balrog99
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 928
    edited July 13
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Quickblade wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Public schools have to reopen at this point in the US. We've went all in for reopening without controlling the virus. We lost. We can't fall too far behind the rest of the world in education, however. At this point, we need to protect the vulnerable (elderly folks and those who are immune-compromised) but we really can't protect everybody. That ship has sailed for the US and for Brazil, the UK and Sweden. Sorry Libs, you were right (and me, but the anti-science religious fundamentalists drowned me out), but it's too late now...

    So, just toss our children into it? Yeah, putting our literal future at risk seems a good idea...

    Pretty much. I don't think there's going to be much of a choice at this point. We'll have to trust our school superintendents to open them up safely. Would be nice to get them some relief money too, but I'm not holding my breath...

    There are about 50 million public school age children in the US at this point. Even assuming the mortality rate for this age group is as tiny as .01%, you are still talking 5000 dead children if the disease spreads. That's obviously probably a high number, but let's say even a small fraction of that takes place. If you think there is an uproar now, wait till about 100-200 parents of dead kids are on the Today show telling their story. To say nothing of the families of the teachers.

    I saw someone mention the other day that many parents are terrified of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) even though the percentages wouldn't indicate there is much to worry about. This is no different. If there is even a 1/10,000 chance your kid's case could be the one that turns tragic, many, many parents will not take that risk. Anything above zero in their mind's eye is too much.

    There's no helping people like that. Barring a miracle-cure or a vaccine, we're going to be living with risk for quite a while. How did we ever survive before vaccines?

    We didn't. Dead children. Millions of dead children. Basically your odds of living to 15 or so was probably about 40%. It's the real anchor as to why life expectancy was so low.

    Good news, after that point, you were probably going to outlive the average life expectancy.

    Well I was thinking about the late 19th, early 20th century, not the Middle Ages so I don't think it was quite that bad, but point taken.

    It didn't really change much from then until about the 1920s.

    https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality

    https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/06/Mortality-rates-of-children-over-last-two-millennia-800x533.png

    Oh, and guess what? 1920s is when the majority of vaccines started getting developed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_vaccines

    Preventing child mortality from infectious disease is one of, if not THE greatest reasons for the population boom of the 20th century. Reducing maternal mortality, improving agricultural production efficiency, and overall better living conditions helped, but the fact that you had a roughly even chance of dying before reaching breeding age is what slowed down population growth.

    ThacoBell
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