more pickpocketing opportunities, please

Lemernis

The pickpocketing skill does have some value, especially for roleplay-oriented games, and/or games that adopt a particular strategic approach, etc. But I've noticed that some NPCs that have items of value equipped cannot be pickpocketed for those items (even when the rogue has 95 in pickpocketing), which certainly makes a potentially fun skill for a rogue... not so valuable. Also, shouldn't at least a few nobles here and there about the game have some gold or gems on them?

elminster

I agree 100%.

Blackraven

Lemernis said:

The pickpocketing skill does have some value, especially for roleplay-oriented games, and/or games that adopt a particular strategic approach, etc. But I've noticed that some NPCs that have items of value equipped cannot be pickpocketed for those items (even when the rogue has 95 in pickpocketing), which certainly makes a potentially fun skill for a rogue... not so valuable. Also, shouldn't at least a few nobles here and there about the game have some gold or gems on them?

In BG2 some nobles and other named characters do carry valuables such as (high level) scrolls, potions, and gold.

Do you mean by the term 'equipped' that you would promote the pickpocketability of equipped weapons and armor? As in armor that is worn by the owner (like Drizzt's Mithril Chain), or a weapon the mark has in their hands? Or were you only referring to items they have in their inventory?
A master pickpocket might snatch a weapon from a hapless victim's hands but pickpocketing donned armor would be a stretch too far for me.

Generally I support the idea of making pickpocketing more interesting (i.e. have more pickpocketable items) and maybe more difficult (no stacking of potions of Master Thievery). As it stands Pickpockets is the skill that occupies the bottom of my thieves' list of skills to learn.

Lemernis

Yeah, pickpocketing armor that the character is wearing is hardly believable, totally agree there. Although, actually, in the case of Quenash, the courtesan in the Undercellar who has the cloak of Balduran, I envision her as wearing it as an adornment to her 'work clothes'. The clasp could be undone by a pickpocket. So a cloak that is at the top layer of clothing could be lifted. If it is underneath armor, then obviously no.

A worn robe could not be picked.

Worn amulets and necklaces could be removed, I think.

Worn rings and belts would be too difficult to pick, I think.

Worn helmets? No, at least not if it is the type that encloses the head.

For a weapon that is literally in-hand, I think the difficulty would be high, but theoretically if there is enough distraction it's plausible.

Blackraven

I agree with you on the Cloak of Balduran, I read your account, and to me the way you stole it from Quenash was very credible.
As to the other items you mention, yes, all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Elrandir

I would love for my bard to have more use for his excellent pickpocketing abilities.

bbear

Just curious, if the target is rendered unconscious or immobilize, should you be allowed to rob his armor? I mean you can literally strip him to his loin cloth and he cant resist.

Lemernis

You wouldn't really need the pickpocketing skill for that, though, right? Although game engine-wise I don't know how else you'd get the armor unless it's made into a loot drop.

Edvin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTccvj0gc58#t=80

1:20

SionIV

Most special characters have items you can pickpocket, potions or gems. If you have SCS installed you'll be able to pick pocket even more potions. You can also get Drizzt Scimitars which sell for almost 10 000 gold unless you want to use them, you can pickpocket a ring of free action in Ulgoth's beard that you can sell for 2 500 and the dwarf that give you the quest for Durlags tower got a magical war hammer that you can pickpocket which sells for almost 2 000 gold.

Instead of having high charisma you can pickpocket rewards that you would have gotten. You can pickpocket the dagger +1 in candlekeep, the 6 antidotes in Friendly Arm Inn and you can even pickpocket rewards so you don't have to do the quest (evil characters) for an example the ring of protection +1 from Mirianne (?) in Beregost can be stolen beforehand.

There are a ton of items and potions you can steal in Baldur's Gate already, that skill is almost more useful than open lock when it comes to getting money. A solo bard could pickpocket stuff worth over 30 000 gold just in the first 2 hours of the game.

You can pickpocket the 3 sirenes in the temple of lathander for some pearls, the priest got some potions that you can steal. The guy who hands you the free potion in candlekeep can be stolen for another healing potion. In my SCS installation Tethoril can be stolen for potions, the lady you return the book to can be stolen for some gems.

You can rob Elminster of potions as well if you're quick enough to do it before he runs of. The guy who will tell you about the werewolf dude in ulgoth's for 20 gold can be pickpocketed for a potion or two and some amulets.

Try to pickpocket every single person that has an odd name and the the noblewomen/men in Baldur's gate 1, you'll end up with a ton of items to sell or use.

And as mentioned before the Cloak of Balduran (best cloak in game) can be gotten from pickpocket as well.

Shandalar (Ulgoth's beard) is the single best place to get level 4 mage scrolls. You can pickpocket many level 4 mage scrolls of him and then 2 potions of heroism.

When you do the Silke quest in Beregost, before you talk to the thugs you can pickpocket each of them for a potion of defense, so after you have spoken to the leader you'll have 4 potions of defense instead of 1.

Oh and you can pickpocket the daughter in the Umberlee quest for her gauntlets of protection before you turn in the quest.

You can also pickpocket Large Shields +1 from the vendor in Nashkal. These are the best shields in the game with the exception of the Large Shield +2 and you can get your entire party geared up with them from pickpocketing him.

The only limit to items you can pickpocket in these games is yourself. Many people will just ignore or not think about it, but every single NPC you meet might have something in their pockets. Try a run where you pickpocket everyone you meet and it'll open your eyes to exactly how much stuff is out there.

Lemernis

@Edvin Funny! Very enjoyable to watch a group having fun with tabletop like that. :-)

Lemernis

@SionIV I have a game going now in which Eldoth pickpockets a lot in Baldur's Gate and it actually is fairly impressive what you can get. I'm just saying that since the player will typically be swimming in cash anyway, it might add more fun for the classes that pickpocket to sprinkle in some more items. Like the ring of free action in Ulgoth's Beard, there could be some items added to non-encounter NPCs that are fun and creative.

SionIV

In Baldur's Gate 2 you can get the ring of regeneration, a ton of high level scrolls and other goodies.

In Icewind Dale you can pickpocket some seriously overpowered gear in Kuldahar right from the start.

There isn't a single Infinity game where it isn't worth picking pickpocket.

elminster

SionIV said:

You can also get Drizzt Scimitars which sell for almost 10 000 gold unless you want to use them

Only pre-1.3. That changes in 1.3 since Drizzt now is actually using his scimitars.

SionIV

elminster said:

SionIV said:

You can also get Drizzt Scimitars which sell for almost 10 000 gold unless you want to use them

Only pre-1.3. That changes in 1.3 since Drizzt now is actually using his scimitars.

Will this make him stronger or weaker?

elminster

SionIV said:

elminster said:

SionIV said:

You can also get Drizzt Scimitars which sell for almost 10 000 gold unless you want to use them

Only pre-1.3. That changes in 1.3 since Drizzt now is actually using his scimitars.

Will this make him stronger or weaker?

Technically at the moment he has now a lower AC but I believe he no longer has his 30 damage (if you fail a save vs death at +4) ability. So probably weaker overall.

elminster

SionIV said:

You can rob Elminster of potions as well if you're quick enough to do it before he runs of.

The only elminster you can steal from is the doppleganger version. Otherwise the only thing elminster has on him is a quarterstaff.

Personally I think pickpocket isn't really worth it compared to most of the other thieving abilities (find traps, set traps, open locks, and stealth namely in the case of BGEE). Its a high risk activity (unless you plan on reloading) that compared to these other skills doesn't offer much. It would be different if you could actually steal from a much wider selection of store inventories in the game but as it stands now its a pretty mediocre skill to have.

SionIV

It gives you just about the most money out of any thieving skill, even more so than open lock. So it really isn't that bad, and it's the best skill in the game if you want to make quick money.

And must be SCS that has added potions to him for me.

If you look at it like that, both Hide in Shadow and Move Silent are close to useless because it doesn't give you anything, just helps you improve when it comes to fights. You can already cover that with Invisibility spells, potions and just another strategy for combat.

You won't lose out on anything from not having hide in shadow or move silent. You'll lose out on over 30 000 gold and good items for not having pick pocket.

elminster

SionIV said:

And if you look at it like that, both Hide in Shadow and Move Silent is close to useless because it doesn't give you anything, just helps you improve when it comes to fights. You can already cover that with Invisibility spells, potions and just another strategy for combat.

You won't lose out on anything from not having hide in shadow or move silent. You'll lose out on over 30 000 gold and good items for not having pick pocket.

There really aren't enough potions of invisibility in BGEE for you to use it even remotely as a reliable source of invisibility. Sorcerous Sundries for instance only has 3 (black lilly and the shop of silence have none). I mean you could have your mage cast invisibility on your thief every time you want them to hide but that is just a waste of a second level slot (which certainly in BGEE you won't have that many of unless you have more than one mage).

It ends up being more like 7000 (depends on your charisma/reputation) because Erdane has 15 potions of master thievery that you can buy (as well as 5 potions of perception though only thieves can use these). Your basic human thief with 18 dexterity starts out with 25 in pickpockets so you only need 1 of these potions to steal from any character that has an item in their quick slots or inventory that you want to steal. Though you wouldn't think it (because it sounds unusual frankly) this includes Algernon's Cloak, the Cloak of Balduran (though you can't acquire this until much later), the warhammer +1 hurgan has, everything shandalar has (that you can steal), and basically everything you listed. The exception would be the ring of free action since she actually has that equipped and possibly the gauntlets in baldur's gate that you mentioned, but if you were to combine a potion of master thievery and a potion of perception you could even get that.

SionIV

elminster said:

SionIV said:

And if you look at it like that, both Hide in Shadow and Move Silent is close to useless because it doesn't give you anything, just helps you improve when it comes to fights. You can already cover that with Invisibility spells, potions and just another strategy for combat.

You won't lose out on anything from not having hide in shadow or move silent. You'll lose out on over 30 000 gold and good items for not having pick pocket.

There really aren't enough potions of invisibility in BGEE for you to use it even remotely as a reliable source of invisibility. Sorcerous Sundries for instance only has 3 (black lilly and the shop of silence have none). I mean you could have your mage cast invisibility on your thief every time you want them to hide but that is just a waste of a second level slot (which certainly in BGEE you won't have that many of unless you have more than one mage).

It ends up being more like 7000 (depends on your charisma/reputation) because Erdane has 15 potions of master thievery that you can buy (as well as 5 potions of perception though only thieves can use these). Your basic human thief with 18 dexterity starts out with 25 in pickpockets so you only need 1 of these potions to steal from any character that has an item in their quick slots or inventory that you want to steal. Though you wouldn't think it (because it sounds unusual frankly) this includes Algernon's Cloak, the Cloak of Balduran (though you can't acquire this until much later), the warhammer +1 hurgan has, everything shandalar has (that you can steal), and basically everything you listed. The exception would be the ring of free action since she actually has that equipped and possibly the gauntlets in baldur's gate that you mentioned, but if you were to combine a potion of master thievery and a potion of perception you could even get that.

The items you can steal will come up in the 30 000.

Drizzt Scimitar = 8000 - 10000 (we're still playing with this patch)
Hammer in Ulgoth's = 2000
Ring in Ulgoth's = 2500
Potion of defense = 1200
Potion of Heroism = 800
Gauntlets from the Umberlee priest = 2000 (most people won't kill her)
Scrolls = 1500

And you can steal up to 5(?) Large shields +1. Even though you won't be able to sell them, that's still saving 3000 gold on each shield.

There are a ton of items i have forgotten to mention, so yes it'll be up in the 30 000 and over.

Do people NEED to have pickpocket? No. But saying it's a bad skill is just stupid, it's a great skill and you can earn a ton of great items from having it.

And the amazing thing with pickpocket is that you can do this early. You can gather up a large amount of money and some very powerful items right out from candlekeep if you know where to look.

Ravenslight

I’m getting really curious now. I’m wondering how much SCS adds to the pickpocket possibilities, as I have never been able to gain as much wealth as some of you have from pick pocketing. But then I have never played with SCS either. Does anyone happen to know how much of this is from the mod, or is it mostly from the vanilla game?

SionIV

SCS should only add potions to NPC's out there. You're able to pickpocket these potions and gain quite a bit of money from it.

elminster

SionIV said:

elminster said:

SionIV said:

And if you look at it like that, both Hide in Shadow and Move Silent is close to useless because it doesn't give you anything, just helps you improve when it comes to fights. You can already cover that with Invisibility spells, potions and just another strategy for combat.

You won't lose out on anything from not having hide in shadow or move silent. You'll lose out on over 30 000 gold and good items for not having pick pocket.

There really aren't enough potions of invisibility in BGEE for you to use it even remotely as a reliable source of invisibility. Sorcerous Sundries for instance only has 3 (black lilly and the shop of silence have none). I mean you could have your mage cast invisibility on your thief every time you want them to hide but that is just a waste of a second level slot (which certainly in BGEE you won't have that many of unless you have more than one mage).

It ends up being more like 7000 (depends on your charisma/reputation) because Erdane has 15 potions of master thievery that you can buy (as well as 5 potions of perception though only thieves can use these). Your basic human thief with 18 dexterity starts out with 25 in pickpockets so you only need 1 of these potions to steal from any character that has an item in their quick slots or inventory that you want to steal. Though you wouldn't think it (because it sounds unusual frankly) this includes Algernon's Cloak, the Cloak of Balduran (though you can't acquire this until much later), the warhammer +1 hurgan has, everything shandalar has (that you can steal), and basically everything you listed. The exception would be the ring of free action since she actually has that equipped and possibly the gauntlets in baldur's gate that you mentioned, but if you were to combine a potion of master thievery and a potion of perception you could even get that.

The items you can steal will come up in the 30 000.

Drizzt Scimitar = 8000 - 10000 (we're still playing with this patch)
Hammer in Ulgoth's = 2000
Ring in Ulgoth's = 2500
Potion of defense = 1200
Potion of Heroism = 800
Gauntlets from the Umberlee priest = 2000 (most people won't kill her)
Scrolls = 1500

And you can steal up to 5(?) Large shields +1. Even though you won't be able to sell them, that's still saving 3000 gold on each shield.

There are a ton of items i have forgotten to mention, so yes it'll be up in the 30 000 and over.

Do people NEED to have pickpocket? No. But saying it's a bad skill is just stupid, it's a great skill and you can earn a ton of great items from having it.

And the amazing thing with pickpocket is that you can do this early. You can gather up a large amount of money and some very powerful items right out from candlekeep if you know where to look.

Sorry I meant by 7000 that that is the approximate difference between someone who puts towards pickpocket and someone who doesn't in terms of how much they can make from it (it could be more or less depending upon your charisma/reputation). Simply because of the availability of potions to help you with it. If you factor in the value of every single potion or treasure you can find on someone randomly I'm sure its a lot more but at that point you are spending a lot of time hunting for pretty minor items.

Thankfully I only said it was a mediocre skill and the way it is now it is. You either have to have metagame knowledge about which targets to steal from, or you end up spending a lot of time stealing from targets that really have nothing of value (apart from the ones you listed maybe the rest of the people you can potentially steal from have a potion or a random treasure if you are lucky). Once your ability to steal from Drizzt goes there goes basically half of the financial benefit you get from having the skill (at least until your get to Baldur's Gate).

Also its not like your party is likely to have 5 members who can (or would be) using large shields. Maybe 2-3 of them might. Plus its a shield that only gives 1 more AC vs a regular large shield (which by itself only costs like 15 gold or something), so I don't see what is so special about it apart from your ability to sell it to black lilly/the shop of silence.

SpaceInvader

Edvin said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTccvj0gc58#t=80

1:20

Backstabbing someone with a balista... Why didn't I think about it before?! Genius!