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Which is more useful in a trilogy run?Archer vs Ranger vs Fighter

BLANKYBLANKY Member Posts: 14
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
He will use crossbows and dual scimitar or longsword but he is primarily ranged.I read around(without trying to see spoilers,which failed.)that archers get crappy later on?
  1. Which is more useful in a trilogy run?Archer vs Ranger vs Fighter31 votes
    1. Archer,best at range.
      54.84%
    2. Ranger,supposed to be in between.
        3.23%
    3. Fighter,can get five pips at both ranged and melee weaponry.
      41.94%

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Archers do not get crappy ever. They are machineguns of death throughout the series. I only voted for fighter because its unlikely that you will be able to make every encounter ranged, which would make things difficult for the archer at certain battles. The fighter is the most flexible and will be able to effectively respond to more situations.
  • PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 262
    Pros and cons to both archers and fighters. Rangers on the other hand are about the worst class in the game - aside from those extra pips in two weapon style, you get a load of mediocre special abilities that you'll never use in exchange for losing the ability to put more than 2 pips into a weapon.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Pingwin said:

    Pros and cons to both archers and fighters. Rangers on the other hand are about the worst class in the game - aside from those extra pips in two weapon style, you get a load of mediocre special abilities that you'll never use in exchange for losing the ability to put more than 2 pips into a weapon.

    That's not much of a penalty. They only get two pips, but this also means that Rangers will have specialization in a bunch of different weapons, as opposed to the 2 that fighters will have. Grand Mastery isn't even that great when your base thaco is already 0 and you have super powerful artifact weapons.
  • PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 262
    Ok, fair point, if you want a dual wielding character who is going for a range of weapons instead of going for mastery of one or two, then you might as well take a ranger over a fighter.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    in ToB you can have grand mastery in more than 3 weapons, if BLANKY is only going to dual wield longswords and use a crossbow then it can be done even faster

    also fighters grow up levels quicker and get more HLAs than ranger and will have more HP, plus that grandmastery gives an extra 1/2 attack per round, which doesnt sound much but its much better than specialized, grandmastery is also +2 to hit and +3 to damage higher than specialized, which is really needed for that range damage, getting your range damage high can be difficult if you are not an archer
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    It depends on the sort of party you have. If you need an extra tank then a fighter is better - particularly if you use a shorty in order to benefit from the saving throw bonus. However, if you've got enough fighter types anyway and also have casters in your party then the archer special ability to reduce spell saving throws can make a huge difference (as can the reduction to enemy strength).
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    edited September 2018
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  • NeoptolemusNeoptolemus Member Posts: 26
    Personally I've found rangers make great scouts. A ranger or archer with boots of speed can sit under stealth and easily stay ahead of the party to detect threats. Since you have to be in studded leather an archer makes sense as it negates one of the penalties. I also like stalkers since they can backstab.
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,356
    edited September 2018
    Good poll.... I have managed to change my mind and I am leaning towards ranger now.

    I voted fighter because the figther because of the damage output and the option to play evil.

    But I think the ranger has a few aces up their sleeve.

    Armor of faith is a very solid level 1 spell, that really shines in combo with hardiness
    and DoE (two hand wielded with FoA).


    The damage output of the ranger is somewhat below that of the fighter with GM. But the favored enemy (there are many good choices) can mitigate that where you need it the most.

    The ranger even has acccess to dispel magic. Imo its the lack of protection against stun that is the worst drawback?
    Sword of Avoreen can help the halfling fighter with that
    Post edited by StummvonBordwehr on
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  • WrongWriterWrongWriter Member Posts: 7
    edited September 2018
    Archers are phenomenal until very high levels. The problem is it's rare to find arrows better than +3, but at very high levels there are a lot of monsters that are immune to +3 or lower weapons. I found that I was VERY frequently having to revert to melee combat with my archer at the very high levels because I simply couldn't damage the enemy with arrows. Fortunately, as a Ranger subclass you're given 2 pips in two-weapon fighting for free from the start and by the time you are at the high levels where your arrows lose effectiveness you've had plenty of opportunities to add proficiencies in several melee weapons.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    edited September 2018
    Archers get to hit and damage bonuses from any ranged weapons. They include a +4 short bow, a +4/+5 crossbow, a +4 throwing axe and a +5 sling. Given how good their THAC0 is, archers can easily hit enemies even using non-proficient weapons - so they should never need to go into melee for lack of a weapon (though they may need to do so as a result of other problems like lack of room for maneuver).
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    WrongWriter said:

    Archers are phenomenal until very high levels. The problem is it's rare to find arrows better than +3, but at very high levels there are a lot of monsters that are immune to +3 or lower weapons. I found that I was VERY frequently having to revert to melee combat with my archer at the very high levels because I simply couldn't damage the enemy with arrows. Fortunately, as a Ranger subclass you're given 2 pips in two-weapon fighting for free from the start and by the time you are at the high levels where your arrows lose effectiveness you've had plenty of opportunities to add proficiencies in several melee weapons.

    From what I understand what you want to do is find one of those weapons with the never-ending enchanted ammunition.

    The enchanted ammunition adopts the weapons enchantment level. So the Firetooth crossbow for example shoots bolts that hit as if they are a +4 weapon, unless you specifically load it with other ammunition.

    Get one of those weapons and you're set for life.
  • WrongWriterWrongWriter Member Posts: 7
    Grond0 said:

    Archers get to hit and damage bonuses from any ranged weapons. They include a +4 short bow, a +4/+5 crossbow, a +4 throwing axe and a +5 sling. Given how good their THAC0 is, archers can easily hit enemies even using non-proficient weapons - so they should never need to go into melee for lack of a weapon (though they may need to do so as a result of other problems like lack of room for maneuver).

    I never had a problem hitting, but I would get the message that my weapon was ineffective and the enemy would take no damage no matter how great my bow was because the arrows were +3 max. It never occurred to me to use a throwing weapon. I thought the archer bonus was only with bows.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2018
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  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Archers are easy to pick up and use and will tear through most of the game. They become less powerful in Throne of Bhaal, due to the combination of enemies being damage sponges and melee weapons being just ridiculous at that point. But they're simply "less good" not crappy. For a new player (which OP seems to be) ease of use and effectiveness during the early parts is more important than late-game optimization.

    Go Archer.
  • NoobaccaNoobacca Member Posts: 139
    WrongWriter said:

    Archers are phenomenal until very high levels. The problem is it's rare to find arrows better than +3, but at very high levels there are a lot of monsters that are immune to +3 or lower weapons. I found that I was VERY frequently having to revert to melee combat with my archer at the very high levels because I simply couldn't damage the enemy with arrows. Fortunately, as a Ranger subclass you're given 2 pips in two-weapon fighting for free from the start and by the time you are at the high levels where your arrows lose effectiveness you've had plenty of opportunities to add proficiencies in several melee weapons.

    I agree because in game, the ammunition determines what the character can hit, not the launcher. However, @Dee created this very nifty mod - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/58374/enchant-the-missile-launchers-ranged-weapon-tweak/p1
    A very handy mod for anyone who likes using ranged weapons but don't want to be locked into the ones with their own ammunition.

    But for what to choose class-wise? Like others have said, it boils down to what your play style is like and your party. I'd go archer because there aren't any archers in SoA/ToB but that's just me!
  • BLANKYBLANKY Member Posts: 14
    edited September 2018
    chimaera said:

    StummvonBordwehr said:

    Good poll.... I have managed to change my mind.

    I vores fighter because the figther because of the damage output and the option to play evil.

    But I think the ranger has a few aces up their sleeve.

    I have the impression the op hasn't played bg2 yet (considering they have mentioned trying to avoid spoilers), so I'm not sure naming specific weapons for their properties is helpful when making the choice.
    Dont worry I read a lot and already know what to do,due to spoilers.Like sarevok at ToB and Lord Jierdan being a dragon.I am currently playing a cavalier halberd,and axes at undead,so basically its alright.

    So my third playthrough is archer,so yea.
  • BLANKYBLANKY Member Posts: 14
    WrongWriter said:

    Archers are phenomenal until very high levels. The problem is it's rare to find arrows better than +3, but at very high levels there are a lot of monsters that are immune to +3 or lower weapons. I found that I was VERY frequently having to revert to melee combat with my archer at the very high levels because I simply couldn't damage the enemy with arrows. Fortunately, as a Ranger subclass you're given 2 pips in two-weapon fighting for free from the start and by the time you are at the high levels where your arrows lose effectiveness you've had plenty of opportunities to add proficiencies in several melee weapons.

    Would that be a problem if I use crossbow at "WK?" As early as possible?
  • BLANKYBLANKY Member Posts: 14
    Noobacca said:

    WrongWriter said:

    Archers are phenomenal until very high levels. The problem is it's rare to find arrows better than +3, but at very high levels there are a lot of monsters that are immune to +3 or lower weapons. I found that I was VERY frequently having to revert to melee combat with my archer at the very high levels because I simply couldn't damage the enemy with arrows. Fortunately, as a Ranger subclass you're given 2 pips in two-weapon fighting for free from the start and by the time you are at the high levels where your arrows lose effectiveness you've had plenty of opportunities to add proficiencies in several melee weapons.

    I agree because in game, the ammunition determines what the character can hit, not the launcher. However, @Dee created this very nifty mod - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/58374/enchant-the-missile-launchers-ranged-weapon-tweak/p1
    A very handy mod for anyone who likes using ranged weapons but don't want to be locked into the ones with their own ammunition.

    But for what to choose class-wise? Like others have said, it boils down to what your play style is like and your party. I'd go archer because there aren't any archers in SoA/ToB but that's just me!
    I would like someone to be at ranged ALL the time,but when attacked you can barely defend yourself-he would just parry and parry,always staying on the defense-(if better than parrying it wpuld be nice.)so I would give a quarterstaff or something so he could benefit from two handed style as well as from xbow. Something like that.

    Having given my ideal,flexible playstyle,will the opinion of you guys change?


    Also rp wise,who would be a good romance and party members?I plan to be a god but if you recommend a romance I'd gladly listen to the experts.
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  • NoobaccaNoobacca Member Posts: 139
    Give your archer the boots of speed and you won't have to worry about going into melee.
  • BLANKYBLANKY Member Posts: 14
    chimaera said:

    BLANKY said:



    I would like someone to be at ranged ALL the time,but when attacked you can barely defend yourself-he would just parry and parry,always staying on the defense-(if better than parrying it wpuld be nice.)so I would give a quarterstaff or something so he could benefit from two handed style as well as from xbow. Something like that.

    Having given my ideal,flexible playstyle,will the opinion of you guys change?


    Also rp wise,who would be a good romance and party members?I plan to be a god but if you recommend a romance I'd gladly listen to the experts.

    I'd not recommend using either a fighter or a non-archer ranger for a cross/bow character, because without the archer kit bonuses they won't be doing enough damage late game. They might work with thrown weapons though (axes and daggers). Also, there is no parry skill in BG, but it's really not that difficult to keep a ranged character out of melee - just put him at the back of the party. Archers have enough hit points to be able to withstand some melee anyway, and later on they get the armor of faith spell.

    As for romances, tbh I can't recommend any of the vanilla ones, because they range from creepy to annoying. Imo some of the mod npcs are far less problematic, and better written.
    Well I was referring to a barely good thaco,still thx
  • BLANKYBLANKY Member Posts: 14
    Ok I guess I ll choose the archer.Thx for the help guys.
  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 380
    edited September 2018
    Fighter because it can dual class to mage or cleric. Played Ranger through the triogy and it was meh. Love the Ranger concept but by ToB it's lacking.
  • masteralephmasteraleph Member Posts: 270
    Going with Archer. They do drop off some from being insane damage dealers late, but they have some key features that make up for that:

    a) Rate of fire + not needing to move. Yes, everyone gets faster as time goes on, but not needing to move is still a big advantage both to starting combats and to switching targets.

    b) Non-magical elemental damage ammunition. Presuming that you're not playing with SCS or the like, Acid (and other elemental) Arrows or Lightning Bolts penetrate through Stoneskin, disrupting mages who use something like Protection from Magical Weapons.

    c) Elemental self-generated magical ammunition- without going into any real detail, the ranged weapons that self generate magical ammunition in BG2 deal elemental damage, disrupting enemies who use some of the Protection type spells that do cover non-magical ammunition (note that because of damage calculations, bringing your own ammunition to those launchers is better).

    d) Called Shot. Called Shot has a number of very powerful features when you're hitting frequently, and at high levels, you should be hitting 8-10 times per round. In particular, the Save penatly and the Strength Drain can be devastating. The latter, with one particular item (and that is a spoiler) will actually kill pretty much anything in the game.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    One thing not mentioned about Archers very often is their stealth ability. Even solo they should be able to escape melee most of the time using the run and hide strategy. Boots of Speed would make that even easier.
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