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Creating a party question

gouken510gouken510 Member Posts: 7
Hello everyone. Me and my two friends want to start BG:EE multiplayer and we haven't played before. I created a start party https://ibb.co/T8nD1fm. But I got some question in my mind
1- I wanted to create a tank who i can send directly to enemies. So i think his defense should be good. But i couldn't see any parrying skill when i chose weapons proficiency. Does not tank need parrying skills ?
2- Doesn't using shields need parry skill?
3- Why we choose melee weapons skills for mage i mean we use spells to hit. Does mana finish sometimes? Or when enemy come too close to mage can't mage cast a spell? Or is it better that choose throwing skills with caster characters?
4- Most of people don't choose cure light wounds so how can we heal in combat and after combat?
5- Is this set up party good enough to finish game?

Comments

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,098
    1 & 2. There is no parry skill.

    3. Mages can only cast a limited number of spells per day, and then they must rest to re-memorize them, so a Mage will often do some normal attacks in combat. Enemies get an attack bonus in melee if you don't have a melee weapon equipped. Still, I usually prefer to start with a ranged proficiency to keep my mage as far from combat as possible. The dagger proficiency works for both melee and thrown daggers.

    4. Cure Light Wounds is a handy spell. You can heal just by resting, but it takes a long time.

    5. Yes, this is a good party setup. You also have the option of picking up NPCs to fill out your party.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • MichailMichail Member Posts: 196
    1-2. As stated above, there is no parry skill in this game. The stats for defence should be Stamina for more Hitpoints and and Armour Class (AC) to avoid being hit. You can raise AC by improving dexterity or using armour and shields. To use heavy armour your tank should be a fighter type (i see it is). They also get more hitpoints than other classes, like, say, a mage, who can be squishy and should avoid the front line unless dual or multi class, or a thief who should raly on his ability to avoid being hit with high dexterity.
    But your tank is also a damage dealer, so do not forget dps.

    3. No mana in dnd rules. Casters memorise a number of spells and when they exhaust them they need to rest to recover or change them. The sorcerer class can cast any same spell they know repeatedly without memorising it again for a number of times but know fewer spells.

    4. Healing spells and potions, in and out of combat (lots of potions). Mages can heal themselves a bit in combat with larlochs minor drain, but it's not much. Rest for a small amount of HP and new healing spells.

    5. Seems like a good party. You have everything covered. If you need extra healing there are two cleric NPC's to recruit, one evil one good. Or pick a fighter type, thief, mage etc, according to your needs.

    Remember that your mage/thief cannot cast spells while wearing armour (thief ability) and should stick with mage robes, amulets and rings to improve AC. There are some good ones so it not a disadvantage really. Clerics can cast while wearing armour and use a shield, so it's fine.

  • gouken510gouken510 Member Posts: 7
    edited May 4
    Thank you so much for informations. How to increase memorized spell slots?

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,098
    First, it will happen automatically on leveling up.

    Second, there are a couple of items that will increase your number of level 1 or level 2 memorized spell slots. The first of these items is a ring that's available very early in the game but is hidden.
    Under a rock at the bottom of the Friendly Arm Inn map
    The other one is a necklace that's not available until Chapter 6.

    Finally, specialist mages get one extra memorized spell per day. The only way to be a multiclassed specialist mage is to be a Gnome Illusionist. So you could play a Gnome Illusionist/Thief instead of an Elf Mage/Thief, at the cost of not being able to cast spells from the Necromancy school. If you're only planning to play BG1, that's a great trade-off from a power perspective. Necromancy really shines at higher levels, so it's a tougher decision for BG2.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,235
    If you really want a lot of spells I recommend playing a gnome cleric/illusionist. You'll have tons of spells to play with if you use the items @joluv mentioned above plus there's a nice ring you find pretty early that adds one spell of levels 1-4 to a cleric (or druid).

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 134
    You have all bases covered. I would probably take a fighter / cleric (or fighter / druid) instead of a single class cleric to give that player a character that can contribute more outside of healing.

  • gouken510gouken510 Member Posts: 7
    edited May 6
    I gave my cleric "Sword and Shield Style". Which weapons does this style include? All swords or all weapons? I mean i heard clerics - cleric kit can't use sword so what weapons can i use with my cleric :smiley: ? Or is it wasting to use Sword and Shield Style with Clerics?

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,098
    All one-handed melee weapons.

  • gouken510gouken510 Member Posts: 7
    After i read all of them. I am sure about Dwarven defender and Imoen to use as thief.
    But i am not sure about these?

    And i am not sure about two other party members.

    -Dwarven defender. But which weapon or weapons?
    -gnome cleric/illusionist. which weapon or weapons?
    -fighter/cleric. which race? And which weapon or weapons?

    or

    -Dwarven defender. But which weapon or weapons?
    -fighter/cleric. Which race and which weapon or weapons?
    -??????

    or

    -Dwarven defender. But which weapon or weapons?
    -gnome cleric/illusionist. which weapon or weapons?
    -elf fighter/mage with bow and but what should be other weapon?

    or

    -Dwarven defender. But which weapon or weapons?
    -fighter/cleric. which race? And which weapon or weapons?
    -mage. But which race or which class kit?






  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,098
    edited May 10
    If it were me, I'd probably do option 2 with the third slot being a good-aligned Fighter/Illusionist with proficiencies in longbows and scimitars, with the plan to eventually dual-wield.

    For a Dwarven Defender in BG1, I'd start with two pips in hammers and two in axes, then put your level 3 pip in hammers and level 6 pip in axes. That's because there's a really nice hammer available early in BG1 but the good axes aren't available until pretty late in the game, and the third pip in any weapon is more significant than the fourth.

    For the Fighter/Cleric, starting with pips in slings and maces would be good. Halfling, Dwarf, and Half-Orc are the natural choices for race. Those all have some pros and cons, but any of them will be fun.

    Post edited by joluv on
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 75
    joluv wrote: »
    For the Fighter/Cleric ... Halfling, Dwarf, and Half-Orc are the natural choices for race.
    Halflings can't be fighter/clerics in the unmodded game. So much for that option; it's dwarves or half-orcs as the power options. Dwarves are better tanks with their save bonuses, while half-orcs can start with 19 strength and be melee powerhouses right from the start. Half-elves and gnomes are also legal as fighter/clerics, but don't really have any worthwhile racial advantages for the combination.

    joluv
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    I would say that the halforc's strength advantage makes him a viable Fighter/Cleric in Baldur's Gate 1, while a dwarf is a far superior Fighter/Cleric in Baldur's Gate 2. Slings are great for Fighter/Clerics. Maces are fine. In Baldur's Gate 2, you will want to have a few points in flails and dualwielding.

    What @joluv says about Dwarven Defenders going for both hammers and axes makes a lot of sense. Starting in Baldur's Gate 2 you will want to put a few points into dualwielding, but there is no need to rush abandoning your AC before your resistances and HP can make up for it.

    With a cleric/illusionist I would not care much about weapons in Baldur's Gate 1. A point in slings to allow the character to contribute to the battle without wasting spells. In Baldur's Gate 2, the character will potentially become a melee powerhouse, if you are willing to invest time casting a bunch of spells before every battle. Otherwise, you can keep the character in the back and still be very efficient by casting spells.

    The main question when arming the Fighter/Mage (or Fighter/Illusionist), is how to not get into a weapon rivalry with somebody else. But since that is not much a problem in your proposed parties, the FM basically has free pickings. Longbow is good in Baldur's Gate 1. But starting in Baldur's Gate 2, every archer will want to use a particular shortbow. If you wish to play both games but do not wish to put points into both, that is something to keep in mind. For melee, I do not agree with joluv entirely. He is not wrong, but I think two-handed weapons (swords) might be better.

    What mage kit is best for you depends on what you like doing the most. Enchanters are excellent at disabling enemies. Invokers are best at blowing enemies up. Transmuters are best at getting themselves killed.

    joluv
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,098
    For melee, I do not agree with joluv entirely. He is not wrong, but I think two-handed weapons (swords) might be better.

    This is a reasonable stance; the highest-damage weapon in the game a two-handed sword. The decision at least partially depends on how you want to handle Drizzt. If you're going to cheesily kill him or let him die early in the game, then scimitars are really hard to beat. But if you're going to help him out, then yeah, two-handed swords are better.

  • gouken510gouken510 Member Posts: 7
    edited May 11
    So now party looks like:

    --Half Orc Fighter/Cleric - starting with pips in slings and maces
    --Dwarven Defender -
    joluv wrote: »
    For a Dwarven Defender in BG1, I'd start with two pips in hammers and two in axes, then put your level 3 pip in hammers and level 6 pip in axes. That's because there's a really nice hammer available early in BG1 but the good axes aren't available until pretty late in the game, and the third pip in any weapon is more significant than the fourth.
    But i read "Dwarven Defender may not exceed High Mastery (four slots) in axes and war hammers. Am i wrong?

    --Does other character should be (what race?)Fighter/Mage? or (Gnome)Fighter/Illusionist? ( For long range longbows for sure doesn't matter which class i will choose. For Melee two-handed or scimitar ? or something else?
    For melee, I do not agree with joluv entirely. He is not wrong, but I think two-handed weapons (swords) might be better.
    You said for it : "scimitars, with the plan to eventually dual-wield." Am i right?
    and
    Illusionists ( specialist mages) vs Mages. I know specialist mage cannot learn or cast spells from their opposing school and -15% penalty to their chance of learning spells that don't belong to their chosen school. But are these so important? Cause in the other hand there is one more spell slot. From here it looks like specialist mages are better than mages(generalist) mostly. What do you think? In which situtations mages are better than specialist ones?

    Post edited by gouken510 on
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 641
    When you really, really want that spell you can’t cast. :tongue:
    With a Cleric, Conjurer is a safe option because you automatically get all the relevant divination spells from him. It doesn’t really maximize the save penalty, but it’s probably going to harm you the least. But generalists are completely fine, and have enough spell slots after low levels to be worthwhile. On another note, I’d really recommend a thief for traps: they’re deadly if you haven’t played before. I’d recommend someone run a fighter/mage/thief instead of a fighter/mage, though it’s going to eventually lock you out of 9th level spells. Or a mage/thief, since there’re two fighters already in the party.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 75
    gouken510 wrote: »
    But i read "Dwarven Defender may not exceed High Mastery (four slots) in axes and war hammers. Am i wrong?
    High mastery is four dots in the weapon, so three dots in axes or hammers is just fine. The official names:
    - One dot: Proficiency
    - Two dots: Specialization
    - Three dots: Mastery
    - Four dots: High Mastery
    - Five dots: Grand Mastery

    It's impossible to achieve five dots in a weapon anyway under the BG1 (non-SoD) experience cap, except for weird dual-class shenanigans. As such, the high mastery restriction isn't a drawback at all yet; it only limits you when reaching level 9+ in the next game. The restriction that you can't be more than specialized in anything else matters, but it's not that big a deal.

    One thing to watch for playing a DD: that half movement speed on Defensive Stance has a higher priority than everything. Boots of speed won't help. The ring of free action won't help. A friend casting haste on you will get you the extra attack, but not any improvement in movement speed.

  • gouken510gouken510 Member Posts: 7
    edited May 12
    Already now i saw it : "Dwarven defender may not exceed specialization (two slots) in any other weapon " So i must choose axe and hammers. In Black Pits if you installed SoD , experience cap becomes 500,000 even you don't play SoD. What about BG:EE? I wonder if i can reach level 9 with my dwarven defender in BG:EE ( when SoD installed) to put my 4th pip on hammers or axes? If not is putting 3th pip both axe and hammer better than putting 4th pip on one of them and leave other one 2? I think in here
    joluv wrote: »
    For a Dwarven Defender in BG1, I'd start with two pips in hammers and two in axes, then put your level 3 pip in hammers and level 6 pip in axes. That's because there's a really nice hammer available early in BG1 but the good axes aren't available until pretty late in the game, and the third pip in any weapon is more significant than the fourth.
    I think he meant it but English is not my native language so i wasn't sure. Can someone confirm me?

    Post edited by gouken510 on
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,235
    My Dwarven-Defender always starts with 2 pips in axes and two in Sword & Shield. At level 3 and six I add pips in axes. At 9 and 12 I add pips in 2-weapon fighting. At 15, 18, 21 and 24 I add hammers (for Crom Faer). At 27 I add the last pip in 2-weapons. After that, flails and then maybe bastard swords...

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,098
    You can only get to level 8 as a fighter in BG:EE before starting SoD. And yes, I was suggesting going to mastery in axes and mastery in hammers instead of high mastery in one and specialization at the other.

    Compared to specialization, mastery gives you +1 damage and +2 THAC0. High mastery gives you another +1 damage and -1 speed factor. The THAC0 bonus is so valuable that I think it's worth sacrificing high mastery to have mastery in both weapons. This is especially true because you'll probably want to use hammers for most of the game before switching to axes, so this strategy lets you have mastery in your primary weapon for almost the entire game.

    You'll be fine either way, though. It's not a big difference.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,235
    joluv wrote: »
    You can only get to level 8 as a fighter in BG:EE before starting SoD. And yes, I was suggesting going to mastery in axes and mastery in hammers instead of high mastery in one and specialization at the other.

    Compared to specialization, mastery gives you +1 damage and +2 THAC0. High mastery gives you another +1 damage and -1 speed factor. The THAC0 bonus is so valuable that I think it's worth sacrificing high mastery to have mastery in both weapons. This is especially true because you'll probably want to use hammers for most of the game before switching to axes, so this strategy lets you have mastery in your primary weapon for almost the entire game.

    You'll be fine either way, though. It's not a big difference.

    Yeah, I was thinking more for future in BG2 and ToB. I still think 2 pips in Sword & Shield is more useful in BGEE but it's only marginally better as a tank that can fart in the general direction of missiles rather than an early dual-wielder.

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