Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Finally finished BG series

I did it. Beat the final battle in ToB, and finished the whole BG series. Took me about 2 RL months to do. Whew. But well worth it, I really enjoyed the characters and dialogue, plus the lore and background. I don't think I've played such an engaging RPG in a long while.

The final battle was both hard and silly easy. The hard part was dealing with the Big Bad and her summoned minions swarming my party. Then I realized I could plop Spike Traps on her spawn point. Boom, final "final" battle done instantly after her speech. Don't think I remember any Final Boss / Big Bad being defeated instantly or no effort like that. Closest would be Cloud instant-Omnislash on Sephiroth in the ending battle in Final Fantasy 7, or Yu Yevon in Final Fantasy 10, or Luther (final boss) and the bonus bosses in Star Ocean 3 if geared properly, they'd do 0 damage to you with all forms of attack.

It even makes RP sense to pull the Spike Traps on the Big Bad. She spawns in the exact same spot 4 times. A thief would go "Hmm, she pops there again after the 2nd or 3rd time. Lets plop traps right there, just in case!"

I'd have liked a bit more closure to ToB though. Perhaps a short epilogue chapter where you meet and chat up with people in the Mortal-ending, or see your new Godly home in the God-ending.

A couple plot holes, though. Seems like the Big Bad and the Solar forgot that there's still other Bhaalspawn out there. Imoen and that "scared then explode-teleport away" one. And I'm not sure about Bhaal himself. Does one Bhaalspawn have to live with all others dead for Bhaal to resurrect, or do all the Bhaalspawn have to die for Bhaal to resurrect?

And what if cast Imprison on a Bhaalspawn with no other witnesses? Then that Bhaalspawn would be hidden away forever, Meaning Bhaal wouldn't be resurrected either way?

Will share more thoughts later.

JuliusBorisovThacoBellGusindaNeverusedgorgonzolaCalmarTimbo0o0o0StummvonBordwehrbyrne20Iseweintypo_tilly

Comments

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    If Imoen is in your party, she will give up her essence to you.

    As for Viekang (the teleporter):
    According to canon, the protagonist refuses the Bhaal essence and becomes mortal. Many years later the protagonist is attacked by Viekang (who therefore also survived). When the two half-siblings' fight is over, Bhaal is back. Keikaku doori.
    https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abdel_Adrian
    From this factoid, I assume you do not need all Bhaal essence in order to ascend to Godhood. Even if a few minor Bhaalspawn survived though, you probably have control over 99% of the essence at that point.

    I congratulate you on finishing the series. I personally do not like the Throne of Bhaal and its mindless series of battles very much. But if you do not play through it, you are left hanging in the middle of your character's story.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    Congrats on finishing! Time for run 2 :)

    Imoen willingly surrenders her Bhaal-essence at the end of the battle.
    When in Saradush, Lazarus Librarus from Arcana Archives tells you that the thief who stole his spellbook to teleport out of the city is an idiot, since the city is magically warded and trying to teleport out would kill you (if I remember correctly). Viekang teleported out and could very well have been destroyed by the wards when doing so.

    Using spike traps during the final game makes sense because it's by far the easiest way to kill Boss. But that's the same for the entire game. Even Demogorgon can be killed this way. Spike traps are immensely powerful and have never been nerfed as far as I know. I don't really mind because I never use them against bosses (makes everything too easy). The final ToB battle could be easily fixed by letting Boss teleport to a random location each time.

    Isewein
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,316
    edited May 16
    ...

    Post edited by BelgarathMTH on
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 641
    Congrats, Veristek! Now that you’re done with one run, you can join the rest of us in our neverending cycles of restartitis. But seriously, with one run you get to experience 6-7 NPCs: there’s so much more, and so many interesting character interactions. Evil playthroughs, modded playthroughs, no reload playthroughs... and of course different character classes and items and... yeah. If you want to stick around, this game has a lot more to offer. :smile:

    ThacoBellStummvonBordwehrleeux
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    Neverused wrote: »
    with one run you get to experience 6-7 NPCs
    not he, he probably has done the side quests of 80% of bg2 npcs :D

    @Veristek, congratulations!

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 544
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 215
    If Imoen is in your party, she will give up her essence to you.

    As for Viekang (the teleporter):
    According to canon, the protagonist refuses the Bhaal essence and becomes mortal. Many years later the protagonist is attacked by Viekang (who therefore also survived). When the two half-siblings' fight is over, Bhaal is back. Keikaku doori.
    https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abdel_Adrian
    From this factoid, I assume you do not need all Bhaal essence in order to ascend to Godhood. Even if a few minor Bhaalspawn survived though, you probably have control over 99% of the essence at that point.

    I congratulate you on finishing the series. I personally do not like the Throne of Bhaal and its mindless series of battles very much. But if you do not play through it, you are left hanging in the middle of your character's story.

    I'm not sure I would consider that bit to be canon, as it makes very specific assumptions about the PC. Also, Viekang should be dead no matter what - either killed in the siege of Saradush or blasted into bits by the city wards. If anything, the PC should feel bad for giving him the courage to pancake himself while attempting to teleport - he would have had a better chance trapped in the tavern. I suppose it is possible that Viekang's teleportation method bypasses that problem, as the PC's party does by using a separate plane, but his ability is described as being more like wild magic, not planar travel.

    Imoen is a bit more interesting, however, as she is potentially in your party at the end. I'm not sure how the game handles it if she isn't, but presumably if she isn't, she is assumed to have been killed. It does present a bit of a plot hole, though. It's also a bit of a lost opportunity, as her refusal to give up her portion would potentially put her in direct opposition to the PC. The game never mentions that possibility, unfortunately.

    gorgonzolaIseweinBeetle
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    @Maurvir When you watch the thief trying to teleport out, he explodes right in the tavern. The same thing does not happen to Viekang. His teleportation goes the same way as it did in Trademeet.

    Baldur's Gate is part of the DnD canon, therefore wherever Baldur's Gate and DnD literature disagree, DnD canon takes precedence. The canon Baldur's Gate protagonist is Abdel, not your character.
    This is not very important within the game. Your character need not be considered insane because he thinks he is really a beautiful elf sorceress. It is fine to play the game however you want. But your playthrough will never be canon.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,030
    @Humanoid_Taifun I consider the games themselves (and the events within) to be a separate canon from what the official lore is on the same events. D&D Abdel is not the games' Bhaalspawn and vice versa. I copletely agrre about Viekang. The game pretty heavily implies that he survives.

    StummvonBordwehrIsewein
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 215
    Oh, I agree that the game implies Viekang survives. However, it is a pretty obvious plot hole, as he shouldn't have. Had someone been thinking, he should have pancaked like the thief, leaving your PC to feel like a jerk for "helping". I suppose it could be written off as bhaalspawn powers being "different" from wild magic, though.

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    There are a variety of planes for you to travel through. Astral plane, ethereal plane... Charname travels through a personal plane. Just like you use Ruby Ray of Reversal to deal with Spell Immunity: Abjuration, so there are teleportation spells that can get past teleportation blocks.
    The Black Pits also have a teleportation block installed to stop the prisoners from escaping. That does not seem to be of interest to anyone during Neera's quest. In Baldur's Gate 1 you get caught on an island that traps teleporters - and you escape by teleportation anyway.
    I agree that it is somewhat reckless of Charname to decide to risk it without studying the ability (or the blockade) first. But it is definitely not a plot hole.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,030
    Maurvir wrote: »
    Oh, I agree that the game implies Viekang survives. However, it is a pretty obvious plot hole, as he shouldn't have. Had someone been thinking, he should have pancaked like the thief, leaving your PC to feel like a jerk for "helping". I suppose it could be written off as bhaalspawn powers being "different" from wild magic, though.

    Debateable. Regualr teleportation is blocked, but teleportation from a divine heritage seems to get through just fine. Like when Charname does it. Viekang's teleportation is clearly not a normal form, so I don't see any reason to view it as a plot hole.

  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 447
    edited May 22
    Actually since Lord Ao re-made the Tables of Fate in 5E Abdel Adrian is no longer the canon Bhaalspawn and is now just one of the many known alternate universe Bhaalspawns (good riddance). See, Minsc and Boo (along with Viconia and Deekin/Linu Laneral of NWN fame) now exist in 5E almost exactly as they did in the games, which among many other details should have been impossible considering that the original canon Minsc alone was (gasp) just some random red-haired bar owner NPC.

    It seems that when Lord Ao decided to remake the foundations of the FR cosmos he also decided to cherry pick which details from alternate universes would fit the new canon. As far as the new canon is concerned, the protagonist Bhaalspawn is now an enigmatic, mysterious, pretty much faceless figure. He/she/it does ultimately end up fighting Viekang, however, and their mutual deaths result in Bhaal's resurrection.
    The details are intentionally left vague I guess, so that people are free to fill in the blanks.

    Sadly, among other things, this potentially means that your PC's own universe is now one Minsc and Boo short.

    As for Viekang, for all we know his brand of "teleportation" may actually involve planestraveling or even outright jumping to an alternate universe. It is a power inherited from a god, these kinds of things tend to trump regular rules.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Debateable. Regualr teleportation is blocked, but teleportation from a divine heritage seems to get through just fine. Like when Charname does it. Viekang's teleportation is clearly not a normal form, so I don't see any reason to view it as a plot hole.

    Also debateable. Charname teleports to a plane parallel to the Prime Material and might not 'bump' against the wards around Saradush. Viekang teleports inside the Prime Material from inside the city to outside.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 544
    edited May 23
    The BG novels are inconsistent with BG1/BG2 in many, many respects including how Abdel interacts with the Shadow Thieves and Bodhi. Moreover the final fate of Abdel comes from a convention module whose driving premise -- that CHARNAME earned such lasting respect in Baldur's Gate for defeating Sarevok that he was named Grand Duke of the city -- makes little sense in light of Siege of Dragonspear.

    All of these products were WotC-approved so it's hard to say which one(s) should be considered official canon. However my guess is that most players consider their own personal BG1/BG2 run-throughs to be canon and aren't especially interested in what these other products claim "really" happened (though obviously a shared literary universe can't take as canon each of our individual run-throughs).

    Post edited by jsaving on
    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,030
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Debateable. Regualr teleportation is blocked, but teleportation from a divine heritage seems to get through just fine. Like when Charname does it. Viekang's teleportation is clearly not a normal form, so I don't see any reason to view it as a plot hole.

    Also debateable. Charname teleports to a plane parallel to the Prime Material and might not 'bump' against the wards around Saradush. Viekang teleports inside the Prime Material from inside the city to outside.

    Debateable, we don't know how Viekang's teleport works. It very well could be plane traversal just like charname's.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Debateable. Regualr teleportation is blocked, but teleportation from a divine heritage seems to get through just fine. Like when Charname does it. Viekang's teleportation is clearly not a normal form, so I don't see any reason to view it as a plot hole.

    Also debateable. Charname teleports to a plane parallel to the Prime Material and might not 'bump' against the wards around Saradush. Viekang teleports inside the Prime Material from inside the city to outside.

    Debateable, we don't know how Viekang's teleport works. It very well could be plane traversal just like charname's.

    True enough. I don't think we'll ever have clarity on this matter, but all theories seem to have merit.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,030
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Debateable. Regualr teleportation is blocked, but teleportation from a divine heritage seems to get through just fine. Like when Charname does it. Viekang's teleportation is clearly not a normal form, so I don't see any reason to view it as a plot hole.

    Also debateable. Charname teleports to a plane parallel to the Prime Material and might not 'bump' against the wards around Saradush. Viekang teleports inside the Prime Material from inside the city to outside.

    Debateable, we don't know how Viekang's teleport works. It very well could be plane traversal just like charname's.

    True enough. I don't think we'll ever have clarity on this matter, but all theories seem to have merit.

    Well, the idea that viekang died when trying to teleport out DOESN'T have merit. When you see the thief try to port out, he explodes immiediately. This doesn't happen to VIekang, pretty clearly indicating that he made it out. As for what happened to him after that? Yeah, no idea.

  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 447
    edited May 25
    Nuin wrote: »
    It seems that when Lord Ao decided to remake the foundations of the FR cosmos he also decided to cherry pick which details from alternate universes would fit the new canon. As far as the new canon is concerned, the protagonist Bhaalspawn is now an enigmatic, mysterious, pretty much faceless figure. He/she/it does ultimately end up fighting Viekang, however, and their mutual deaths result in Bhaal's resurrection.

    That's after the events of the BG saga.

    Though of course, as I mentioned, each character you make is basically an alternate universe version of the Bhaalspawn. The Viekang in your world could have lived a full, old life having happily raised a family in some random small farming village in Sembia, if you wanted.

    gorgonzolaThacoBell
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 215
    Yup, I always imagined my PC living to a ripe old age and dying of natural causes, as she opted to give up her essence and stay a regular mortal. I suppose the whole thing could still go off when Viekang kicks the bucket, though.

    ThacoBell
  • BuffaloSolider95BuffaloSolider95 Member Posts: 14
    Just got finished also. ToB was a bit tedious, by the time I got to Abazigal's in Chapter 9 and saw yet another Dragon at the entrance. I almost gave up, not because the fights are too hard, just because by that point I wanted it to be over so I could just see the damned ending.

    The ending? Eh,, it wasn't terrible but I was expecting something more grand. Part of the problem was, I wasn't really attached to this character. I regret taking Sarevok instead of Keldorn. I found his Redemption story rather dull, and liked the setup I had with my LG Cavalier, Keldorn, Anomen, Imoen, Aerie and Jaheira. Honestly I wanted to drop Jaheira too and take Mazzy to have a full good party, but I read on forums that Jaheira had a lot of good insights in ToB, but I didn't see anything that interesting tbh.

    I guess the lesson I learned is its better to just play the game and enjoy it instead of following online advice and trying to get the perfect game. I made that mistake with trying to complete every sidequest in Ch. 2, which just made me feel overpowered, and screwed up the pacing of the whole story.

    Well, anyways, it is still a great game, and now, after a bit of break, I will reroll as an evil character!

    Grond0typo_tillyBelgarathMTHgorgonzola
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 447
    Just an FYI, if what you actually wanted was front row seats to character development/interesting dialogue then your party should be a mix of characters of all alignments.

Sign In or Register to comment.