Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Do Multi classes get more HLA points?

I can't remember my 1st playthrough but I just broke the 3mil XP with all 6 party members last night so they all started getting some HLA points. I noticed that my Fighter/Thief got a HLA point when the Thief level went up as well as when the Fighter one did.

I know that different classes level up at different speeds (on my 1st playthrough, my main character which was a Sorcerer imported from BG1 ended up at lvl 23-24 while Anomen who probably started lower lvl in BG2 ended up with something like lvl 7 Fighter (Dual class) and lvl 30-31 Cleric.

Still, my Monk is higher lvl (he was imported from BG1/SoD so he started higher and I think he levels faster late game) but aside from him, the others were of similar XP ranges. The Wizard Slayer is lvl 20, the other 3 (archer, shaman, Keldorn) are lvl 18. My Fighter/Thief is lvl 14/17.

So unless I'm mistaken, this means that the multi-classes (like F/T) keep on getting an extra HLA point every team each of the class levels up meaning they end up with quite a few more points than others or is this stopped and balanced out in some other way? If it stays that way, it's a significant end game power spike that I had underestimated vs single classes/kits (on top of having more options).


  • iosfrustrationiosfrustration Member Posts: 153
    edited November 2019
    As Yoshimo would say “if memory serves”
    If my memory serves me correctly you start gaining HLAs every level after your character reaches 3,000,000(?) exp.
    that’s 3m exp in total across all classes, single, dual, multi, whatever, doesn’t matter. When the total hits 3m you get an HLA every level up.
    So yes, you’re quite right; if you are multiclass and some of those classes are quick levelling (like a Cleric/Theif) then you could have a tonne of HLAs
    The reverse is also true, if you are a single class Druid (who have a weird leveling curve) you’ll have a very small number of HLAs
    To a degree this is balanced in that Druid HLAs are quite powerful (elemental prince for example). But thief Use Any Item is arguably even MORE powerful. And the mages Planetar is pretty much the last HLA you’ll ever need, so there is that to consider too

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,041
    edited November 2019
    @iosfrustration With dualclasses, you need to hit 3M XP with the new class. The old class does not matter. High level dualclasses get very few HLAs.
    @Neo It is true that you get HLAs for two classes. But the XP cap is at 8 million. Unless you have modified the game, you will not go to 16 million XP. But your FT character levels both of his classes at half the normal speed (because the XP is divided between the two classes). So you get 2 * ½ as many HLAs as everybody else. Which is to say, you get an average amount of HLAs.
    Well, that is not entirely true. Thieves stop leveling long before they hit the XP cap, so Thief multiclasses have an HLA advantage over pure thieves. But you will benefit from this only if you manage to hit the XP cap. In the original BG2, it was common for a full party to reach the end at 7 million XP. With the new NPCs and their quests and the higher starting XP from SoD, it has become easier to reach the cap, but it is still no matter of course.

  • NeoNeo Member Posts: 125
    I haven't looked in the actual numbers and I understand the leveling twice slower theory. It's just that unless I'm wrong (and it gets complicated since different classes level up at different speeds), the fact that you need more and more XP to level each time makes the multi-class have more levels (for example, my F/T is about to hit lvls 15/18 while my single class Fighter (Wizard Slayer) is lvl 21). If you were to get half the levels, my F/T should be lvl 10/11.

    So you do level slower since the XP is divided between 2 classes but since you're lower level on these classes, you also need less XP to have them level up, hence gaining more levels (I think).

    Anyways, it might not be a huge deal considering I'm almost done with vanilla BG2 (about to hit ToB) and this would probably only start showing somewhere in ToB (and only having a few extra HLA points) at which point it's overkill anyways with a full party. I've always played on Core Rules since I used to play D&D 2nd edition a bit but I'm considering trying out SCS next time since BG2 has turned into a steamroll less than halfway through the campaign (I did the side quests and most of the NPC quests during chapter 2 which made me do some of the harder fights like Kangaxx when I was low level but then kind of ruined the difficulty curve afterwards).

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,041
    At the point where you would get HLAs, the XP increments between levels have already plateaued to their maximum values (the exception being the druid). So while a multiclass has a greater total number of levels, this does not affect their acquisition of HLAs.

  • NeoNeo Member Posts: 125
    Thanks, I was actually wondering if the XP required for further levels eventually capped out

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,964
    You can find progression charts in the back of the Adventurer's Guide - or on PlayItHardcore. Clerics as well as thieves get to level 39 well before the XP cap and multi-classes with these classes can get significantly more HLAs than other classes. All martial classes have consistent XP gaps from level 9 onwards and all other classes from level 11 onwards (apart from the big jump at level 39). The only exception is the druid - which has a weird progression throughout.

  • NeoNeo Member Posts: 125
    edited November 2019
    Great link! From those charts, I must have finished ToB somewhere in the 5mil XP on my 1st playthrough (Sorcerer hit lvl 24 during the final fight I think while Anomen had lvl 7 fighter, lvl 30ish Cleric). I may have more XP this time around (since the Monk also did Siege of Dragonspear on top of BG1 1st) but I think I'll be far from that 8mil cap (maybe because I used a full party).

    Also makes me realize that the extra levels are almost meaningless in terms of power aside from extra HLA points if I were to solo. For example, if I expect my Monk to end around 5mil XP (vs 8mil if I had soloed or smaller party), the only extra things he would gain would be 26 hp, 3 AC and 3 AC vs missiles which is pretty insignificant in exchange of an other lvl 20+ party member I guess. So it would mostly be about the 8-9 extra HLA points. I didn't realize THAC0 and Saving Throws had a cap around lvl 21 (the 10 THAC0 assassin is suddenly a lot less appealing while the other fighting oriented classes get 0 THAC0).

  • ithildurnewithildurnew Member Posts: 245
    edited November 2019
    HLA is one of the reasons why at the silly high lvls ToB allows, multiclasses are broken good. Keep in mind actual earlier editions of DnD didn't allow high levels for multiclassed characters; you stopped progressing around level 10. High level rules were added in a supplement, but bottom line, they are not well balanced in BG, even for a DnD game (which always has had problems with higher level gameplay).
    Bg2/ToB took that and, well, made it even more crazy in how they implemented things.
    From a balance/gameworld building perspective, ToB is completely, utterly insane and unfixably broken. But that's what you get when people want to sell a game that hurls challenges @ characters more powerful than demigods - mooks are nearly as powerful as Drizzt, and shops in cities under siege have inventory that can finance national economies. It's 'MOAR IS BETTER' taken to a predictable end result.

  • NeoNeo Member Posts: 125
    edited November 2019
    Haha yea, I never got very far with my real life D&D 2nd edition games as a teenager with friends but I remember looking at the monsters stats in the Monster Manual and player stats with my Player's Handbook and was thinking to myself if someone would reach lvl 9-10, he'd almost be a God (so much more powerful than say Orcs or Gnolls who are supposed to be close to Humans in terms of strength and size). Now in BG2 ToB with a party of members of which some are above lvl 30 and some of the most powerful possible D&D 2nd edition monsters (Red Dragon in Watcher's Keep) die under 2 seconds... it is a bit ridiculous indeed

Sign In or Register to comment.