Initiative from DEX for casting spells ?

Comments

• Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320

  February 2020 edited February 2020

  Jonnecy wrote: »

  Cross-posting this from my post on BG sub-reddit...getting nothing but downvotes and toxic replies there so here I am.
  
  
  Question:
  What does Initiative from high DEX do for casters (outside of melee combat) ?
  
  Does having high / low Initiative as a caster (specifically arcane) affect anything at all ?
  
  Afaik casting a spell in the BG series always takes a full round and hence casters are always placed at #1 for deciding who gets to act when, so I have read (somewhere...)
  
  Is that true ?
  
  Put differently: should I invest in high DEX or just ignore it as a mage/sorc; some extra AC helps a little early on but later is overshadowed by defensive spells, imo.
  
  

  
  Dexterity has no impact on initiative in Baldur's Gate.
  
  Initiative is anyway not used in spell casting (there is an initiative factor that affects how quickly weapons attack, though that is random and unaffected by dexterity).
  
  Spells take the time listed in each spell description. A magic missile for instance has a casting time of 1 (equivalent to 10% of a round). Almost all spells take less than a round to complete, but a new spell cannot be cast until at least a round after the previous spell commenced. For quicker spells that means the caster will have a bit of time to do something else (such as move or attack) before being able to cast another spell.
  
  Dexterity has two benefits. As you say it lowers AC and thus makes the caster more difficult for others to hit. In addition it improves the chance to hit with missile weapons. Both aspects are helpful, but not crucial for a mage intending to spend most of his time casting spells from the rear of battle.

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• Jonnecy Member Posts: 56

  February 2020

  Awesome, just the type of quality reply I was hoping for
  Thx!

  3
• sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975

  February 2020

  Grond0 wrote: »

  Jonnecy wrote: »

  Cross-posting this from my post on BG sub-reddit...getting nothing but downvotes and toxic replies there so here I am.
  
  
  Question:
  What does Initiative from high DEX do for casters (outside of melee combat) ?
  
  Does having high / low Initiative as a caster (specifically arcane) affect anything at all ?
  
  Afaik casting a spell in the BG series always takes a full round and hence casters are always placed at #1 for deciding who gets to act when, so I have read (somewhere...)
  
  Is that true ?
  
  Put differently: should I invest in high DEX or just ignore it as a mage/sorc; some extra AC helps a little early on but later is overshadowed by defensive spells, imo.
  
  

  
  Dexterity has no impact on initiative in Baldur's Gate.
  
  Initiative is anyway not used in spell casting (there is an initiative factor that affects how quickly weapons attack, though that is random and unaffected by dexterity).
  
  Spells take the time listed in each spell description. A magic missile for instance has a casting time of 1 (equivalent to 10% of a round). Almost all spells take less than a round to complete, but a new spell cannot be cast until at least a round after the previous spell commenced. For quicker spells that means the caster will have a bit of time to do something else (such as move or attack) before being able to cast another spell.
  
  Dexterity has two benefits. As you say it lowers AC and thus makes the caster more difficult for others to hit. In addition it improves the chance to hit with missile weapons. Both aspects are helpful, but not crucial for a mage intending to spend most of his time casting spells from the rear of battle.

  
  i thought weapons attacks were based on their weapon speed? if you have one character attack with a two handed sword and one character attack with a dagger, the character with the dagger is going to hit first no? ( provided they don't have and special weapon styles or go pass specialized proficiency )

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• Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320

  February 2020

  For spells the casting time is the only factor determining how quickly the spell casts. For weapon attacks the speed of the weapon does affect where in the round the weapon strikes, but this speed is adjusted by a random initiative factor. That can improve the weapon speed by up to 2 or worsen it by up to 3, so you're right that does mean there are combats where you are guaranteed the first blow. For instance if you attack a gnoll using a halberd with a dagger, your adjusted speed will be at worst 2+3=5, while his will be at best 9-2=7. You can thus have a free swing and back away for a round before trying again.
  
  The impact of weapon speed and initiative gets lost in the noise of large battles. However, if you play solo these have a major effect on the game. The mechanics of initiative have only recently started to be explored I think - here's a thread from a year or so ago exploring some of the details.

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• gorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864

  February 2020 edited February 2020

  if i am not wrong a high dex improves the thac0 also with MMM, the most damaging spell compared to its level in the game, but only if the meteors connect, as there is a to hit, thac0 vs ac, check.
  
  so a mage using MMM and having high dex has better ac to survive ranged attacks (that is very helpful even in late game as the mantle line spells are short lasting and each arrow dodged makes a stone skin more lasting) and has more chance of hitting with his meteors.
  
  also when he uses a sling better thac0 is helpful and even if the main task of a mage is to cast spells the game allows to fire a sling shot and cast a spell in the same round.
  same with darts, like the ones that stun or poison, that can be game changers against mages and beholders if they connect and the enemy does not save.
  think of the very high number of combat rounds that happen in the whole saga or even in each game, high dex improve the chance to hit for the mage, that does not excel in thac0 by himself, for an incredibly high number of times.
  a player that does not uses the cast and attack in the same round looses a ton of damage if you consider the whole game and not the single round.
  
  when i build my mages dex is always a priority, i rate more a high dex then a high int as both dex and int have no impact on the casting and to learn spells without failure a mage with sub optimal int can use the potions of genius.
  as there is no need at all to learn all the spells the very moment you find the scroll, it is relevant only when you find a scroll of a spell that really improves your mage's casting, and at that moment you can drink the potion and learn all the scrolls you have collected, there is plenty of potions of genius.
  
  18 dex & 15 int >>> 15 dex & 18 int.

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