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Valygar

Is it possible to hire Valygar in chapter 2 and delay the Planar Sphere quest to chapter 6. Will he stay in the party or leave after some time?

Comments

  • SkitiaSkitia Member Posts: 424
    I'm pretty sure he doesn't require it to be completed.

    JuliusBorisovsarevok57iosfrustration
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,127
    velehal wrote: »
    Is it possible to hire Valygar in chapter 2 and delay the Planar Sphere quest to chapter 6. Will he stay in the party or leave after some time?

    yes

    once he joins there is no time limit in which you have to do the planar sphere, in fact you could complete ToB without doing it

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 276
    edited March 3
    Thank you. But I´m not still sure whether I will recruit him. With SCS and especially Ascension and he seems to be much worse chooise than Korgan or Keldorn, let alone Jaheira or Haer Dalis. But eventually he could use Foebane + Defender of Easthaven + Hardiness + Armor of Faith.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,127
    if you dont want to recruit him, you can kill him and take his body to the sphere to get inside still

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 496
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    if you dont want to recruit him, you can kill him and take his body to the sphere to get inside still

    Or, you could recruit him just long enough to get the door open and send him back to his cabin once you are in.

    sarevok57gorgonzolamonico
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,571
    I partially agree. He's a well written character, but I don't think unfinished business adds anything to him that goes anywhere. I'm a little biased though, and that the unfinished business mods are incredibly overrated.

    sarevok57
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,578
    edited March 5
    i don't see any reason to kill npcs you don't need any more unless charname is chaotic evil or sadistic evil.
    even a neutral or legal evil one should not do it, as there is no gain in doing it and who knows, he maybe can become useful in the future.
    and anyway to RP the other party members seeing that you use a person and then have no problem in killing for no reason this former comrade, without feeling worried for themselves seems to me very problematic, i, being a npc, will flee away from the party and such a charname very fast in that situation...
    i would flee in the night to be not stabbed in the back by that a**hole i was helping at risk of my life.

    it is also possible to recruit valigar, open the sphere, drop him inside it, kill whatever has to bo killed, take him again with the party for the final interaction with lavok and then send him to his cabin to farm a little more xp, but why to kill him?

    also maybe is not the best possible choice for scs + ascension, but still is a strong npc, his stabs can be very useful, even in tob, and his armor limitations are something that is possible to live with.
    and by the way i am not sure that to play always towards the maximum power of the party to beat the maximum difficulty settings we are able to beat is always the more fun way to play, sometimes playing not super optimized parties, with npcs that we seldom use at our difficulty limits, dropping a little the difficulty (ie maybe not using all the most difficult scs settings) can be just as challenging and more fun.

    i find to play minimum variations of the same super powerful party run after run boring, so lately i am much more focused in making my parties less powerful then in making the enemies more powerful.

    AerakarDharius
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 496
    Oddly enough, I've been of the same attitude, gorgonzola. My current party isn't nearly as powerful (yet) as my previous parties, and they have different strengths. I also wanted to try more of the mod-added NPCs.

    I chose to take Valygar just long enough to pop the sphere, then sent him back to his cabin. I hate he won't get to see his long lost relative, but I prefer the party composition as it is. Of course, I haven't actually entered the sphere yet, so the party still has time to change its mind.

    I also agree that even evil characters wouldn't necessarily stab an NPC in the back just for the giggles. Chaotic evil, perhaps - with a side of psychopathy, but not lawful or neutral evil. Evil is primarily self-serving, and it doesn't generally serve anyone's interest to randomly kill folks that could be useful in the future.

    ThacoBellgorgonzolaAerakar
  • SkitiaSkitia Member Posts: 424
    Valygar of all NPCs I wish Bioware added a romance too. I remember seeing lines in ToB that even check for such that suggest this was something they were implementing, but was cut for whatever reason.

    gorgonzolaDharius
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 476
    edited March 6
    Technically, a lawful evil character SHOULD kill Valygar (and bring his body to Tolgerias, losing access to the planar sphere), since that's what you were recruited to do.
    Well, you were recruited to capture him, but since he won't follow peacefully, a lawful evil character wouldn't mind bringing him back dead or alive.

    In fact, in my lawful evil runs, I take extra care NOT to talk to Tolgerias, and just meet Valygar "by chance" while investigating the deaths in the Umar Hills.

    Arguably, the same applies to a lawful neutral character.
    A lawful good character would probably refuse Tolgerias' request altogether

    AerakargorgonzolaBalrog99
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 476
    @Ammar sure, you can always find some rationale to "excuse" yourself out of your contract with Tolgerias (just like Korgan, who acts more as a lawful evil than chaotic evil character, does a few times).

    It may just be me, but I always play a Lawful Evil character as someone who will uphold his contracts to the end. In other words, the "evil" part means he doesn't care if he is "employed" for a good or evil task. The "loyal" part means he won't go back on his word (unless betrayed first or if the task was not what was agreed upon in the first place obviously, he's not an idiot).

    My way of picturing "lawful" behaviours is probably why I rarely play one, always ending up with part-neutral alignments, more in adequacy with my "free will" personal character.

    gorgonzolaBalrog99
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,571
    @monico How does your lawful evil character feel about being forced to accept a job without being told what the job is? That seems like pretty unlawful behaviour to me.

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 476
    edited March 6
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @monico How does your lawful evil character feel about being forced to accept a job without being told what the job is? That seems like pretty unlawful behaviour to me.

    Precisely: this character would not care about the reason behind Tolgerias' mission: the man asks something simple: he wants to hire a bounty hunter to find someone for him. Plus, he pays you.
    The fact that Valygar is or is not a murderer, that he had reasons, that he was only defending himself from being abducted and blah blah blah, wouldn't concern my evil character.
    Sure, he only gives you the details about the mission after you give your word, but that's just how confidientality clauses work IRL too :wink:

    The only "discovery" you make while talking to Valygar is that Tolgerias and the cowled wizards plan to use him (or his body) to open the Planar Sphere, but that can't be considered as a betrayal or even a lie from Tolgerias, the reason why he wants to capture Valygar does not concern you.
    The lawful part is that I would be a henchman, recruited to do someone's dirty job, and Valygar's pleas wouldn't mean squat.


    EDIT: after thinking about it, I forgot that Tolgerias asks for your cooperation without saying anything at all about what the job entails (not even saying "I want you to find someone for me"), so I understand what you meant. But that's just bad writing IMO. Technically, nobody in their right mind would ever go past this part in the conversation with Tolgerias, whatever their alignment.

    gorgonzolaBalrog99
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,571
    @monico "Technically, nobody in their right mind would ever go past this part in the conversation with Tolgerias, whatever their alignment."

    Exactly. I personally can't really resolve the issue of charname accepting this quest unless they were chaotic neutral or chaotic evil.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 496
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @monico "Technically, nobody in their right mind would ever go past this part in the conversation with Tolgerias, whatever their alignment."

    Exactly. I personally can't really resolve the issue of charname accepting this quest unless they were chaotic neutral or chaotic evil.

    Chaotic stupid, perhaps? ;)

    ThacoBellBalrog99
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,578
    if i am not wrong tolgerias tells you that if you accept the mission he will maybe be able to provide you with some information about where imoen is kept prisoner.
    this can be a good enough reason for every charname that want to be sure to really do everything possible to rescue his comrade and friend.

    it maybe can seem a paradox but a paladin or lawful good charname should be rp wise the one that has the better reasons to accept the deal, maybe changing his mind after he actually find the ranger.
    not a chaotic evil or neutral one.
    the other 2 alternatives he has are to side with a criminal thieves organization or with vampires, tolgerias is found inside a governative building and member of an organization that is at least tolerated by the official power (even if fighting the CW if you don't pay for the licence the amn soldiers side with you) and at that point there is no clue that you are asked to find or kill an innocent person under false premises for the sake of power of tolgerias and the CW.

    iosfrustrationZaxaresDhariusBalrog99
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 408
    edited March 7
    I agree that Valygar is well written but is a more subtle character than most. I am warming to him more and like to bring him along with Nalia, Mazzy, Anomen and Cernd for a more relaxed, good-ish aligned party. These characters are more mature and less cartoon-ish than some. His Stalker kit is a very good kit too for my stealthy style of play.

    IIRC from his dialogue, Valygar’s main focus is evading/opposing the Cowled Wizards generally, rather than entering the Sphere, so it seems reasonable that he could take his time before entering it.

    Post edited by Dharius on
    gorgonzolaThacoBell
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,578
    edited March 7
    a stalker, anomen and nalia together work very well in a party without a proper thief.
    nalia can take care of most of the traps and locks, maybe with the help of a potion for some of them, anomen has a spell to detect traps where nalia's skill is not up to the task, and lady d'arnise has a spell to open locks and can tank almost every trap (but a certain one in the maze that kill everybody) using SI or mirror images+ luck.
    valygar can do the scouting and stabbing, to scout both nalia and anomen have their invisibility spells (later the SoTM also, that with the cloak of not detection make immune to true sight).
    gliph of guard and skull trap/delayed fireball can be used instead of the thief traps.
    having also haer dalis the party would have also the super powerful hla traps, but is possible to live without them, the only thing that is really missed is detect illusions.

    i have a lot of fun using thieves, but i like your party as it allows to use almost all the thief capabilities without actually having a proper one (nalia is a powerful mage with some lock and trap disarming skills and a bow, certainly not a real thief...).

    DhariusAerakar
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 408
    edited March 7
    Yep, clerics using Sanctuary and mages/bards with Invisibility and Non Detection also make quite stealthy scouts.

    I like that party because the characters are more mature generally... all of them have already learnt some valuable lessons life wise and Nalia shows potential to develop to weigh up good and evil versus power, as we see in TOB, just as Valygar has done.

    As I get older I tend to veer away from the more in your face and evil characters, although I still find Korgan rather amusing (funnier than Jan IMO)

    gorgonzolaAerakarBalrog99
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