I'm so sorry that i stopped commenting on your suggestions. I'm now a good way into the game, just brought down Firkraag and about to go to the asylum. In the end i sacrificed Dorn and went with the Jaheira and Anomen duo, basically combining good and evil characters in my party, which feels weird, but gets me some nice party banter i haven't seen before.
At the moment i my maincharacter is using Foebane and Belm, while also having a lot of AC gear and that AC3 bracers. I think when i get the gauntlets with the extra half attack per round i'll give them to somebody else to keep these AC bracers. I still don't know which Robe i want to wear. Probably Robe of the Archmage for the saving throws i guess.
My Korgan is wielding Stonefire and Kundane so far. He also got the gloves of dex and the strength belt, after i got the strength gloves for Jaheira. I chose quarterstaffs for her, because mainchar and Korgan were using offhand speedweapons already and the only suitable character for scarlet ninja-to would be jan later.
Jaheira got the strength belt first but i switched her to the gloves for now after i got them. She is using quarterstaffs, weilding Staff of Rynn at the moment and club + shield in the second slot should i need it.
Anomen is wearing FoA and DoE, but it will be a long time until i can get his profession up. But fully buffed he is a real beast. The high level dispells and turn undeads really come in handy too. In the end i think he's the best compromise you get in this game for usefulness in melee and divine spells.
With Jan i'm switching around between Tuigan bow, Firetooth and Shortsword of Backstabbing. I'm still not that high on backstabbing, but i occasionally use it and he always brings some more spells to the table.
Edwin is my main mage and by now it's really hard to run him out of spells. I might switch the Ring of Wizzardry to Jan once he has Level 7 spells, because Edwin has so many slots naturally. He got the Robe of Vecna and the Crimson Dart.
I think i'll probably do Watchers Keep Level 2 before going to the asylum and i probably need to lower my reputation a bit, so i don't run into issues with Edwin and Korgan.
Oh and while i'd love to play a Blade once, i didn't consider Cernd for my party at all. Maybe i should use him once to see his personal story, but he never came over as an interesting character and i don't think the shifter kit is that interesting either.
a mundane full plate is better then the armor of the harth as it allows to equip a +2/+3 protection ring, the AC will improve, but also the ST will as without the ring the armor has the same AC of a full plate, and just the fact that you have her in the party in BG2 means 2 more +2 protection rings if your party thief is smart and fast enough.
there are good, but not OP weapons for jaheira in ToB, so i usually swap the +3 club for one of them, and keep belm OH unless the enemy needs more then +2 to be hit, only few enemies require it.
If the red dragon scales armor is equipped and with some caution on the placement of the other toons the club of detonation can be the main jaheira's weapon, and is one of the most damaging weapons in the game.
if jaheira needs to tank she can equip a shield, her apr will drop to 2.5, 5 improved hasted and 10 with GWW, but with a good shield and improved invisibility on she gets a very good end game AC.
and even if it happens only after 6M xp to cast implosion then attack in the same round is extremely powerful, even more if all your low thac0 characters also focus on the enemy stunned by the implosion as he is automatically hit, on top of the damage he takes by the spell. From 6M on she can do it for many rounds in a row with correct timing and using the AoP the casting is a little faster so the next stun happens as, or only slightly after the previous one expires. i should not even say that the spell does 10d10 blunt (the less resisted) and 10d10 fire, only half if is saved, but mainly ignores MR, but as also people with less knowledge of those participating to the thread may read it is worth to tell it.
a lot of ways to make jaheira a strong end game character.
on a side note if someone uses the item upgrade mod, i do it when i do my tactics mod runs in the original game, but not for my more relaxed vanilla runs with EE, there are 2 wonderful weapons that seem to be tailored right for jaheira.
a +4 club that when welded grants GM in clubs, combined with the one of detonation is super strong used by a multi.
and a wonderful scimitar that has the same reach of a 2Hweapon, with an unique attack animation, that allows jaheira to hit from behind a tank.
those weapons are not really needed by who plays vanilla and some players don't like anyway the level of power of the items you can upgrade in that mod, but wanting a very strong jaheira and don't having those problems those 2 weapons can really give her an advantage.
Anomen is wearing FoA and DoE, but it will be a long time until i can get his profession up. But fully buffed he is a real beast. The high level dispells and turn undeads really come in handy too. In the end i think he's the best compromise you get in this game for usefulness in melee and divine spells.
With Jan i'm switching around between Tuigan bow, Firetooth ...........
Edwin is my main mage and by now it's really hard to run him out of spells. I might switch the Ring of Wizzardry to Jan once he has Level 7 spells, because Edwin has so many slots naturally. He got the Robe of Vecna and the Crimson Dart.
about anomen i completely agree, is one of the most powerful mlee toons as long as you buff him properly while being very useful to the party with the high level dispel magic, turn undead and cleric spells, while other fighters have few to offer if not their dps.
about the ranged use of jan and edwin i think that crimson dart and tugian is good for the minor battles as there is plenty of arrows and the returning dart does not consume ammo, but when the game becomes harder, in the main battles, maybe it is better to switch to returning daggers for both if not even slings, particularly for edwin that not only has mage's thac0, but only 10 dex.
both the slings and the returning daggers use str bonus and even before you have many str enhancing items there are 2 spells that can grant str bonus, the cheap arcane one, but also the cleric's strength of the one, that affects every toon in its aoe (just avoid that people with more str or str setting items are near anomen when he cast it, he will anyway override it for himself with the usual buffing procedure).
str can add damage and for the sling as both the launcher and bullet stack it is possible to get a way better thac0 then with the returning daggers or dart.
crimson dart gives +3 thac0, the everard sling with a +2 bullet gives +7, and this can change everything for edwin in the battles when also his ranged damage will help. he will have less apr, but will hit way more often, and when it happens str, launcher and bullet damage bonuses stack so even with 18 or 18.50str his 1 or 2 attacks (you can use the regular haste as the battles that matter usually are the last ones of a dungeon and you will possibly rest anyway after them) will do a damage that is at least noticeable, better then having him with better apr, but missing often and doing few damage when he hits.
using, at least for the main battles, the auto pause on end of round is very easy to have him and jan throw their bullets/daggers at the beginning of a round then cast a spell, relocate, use a wand or potion or whatever.
i post it only now as you posted as i did notice before that you posted as your post was the first in page 2 of the thread so i completely missed it.
Yes, if you have Warder's signet +3 then unenchanted full plate is better then Hart, but it depends of what you pick from Deck. If we compare Hart + Ring of Earth control vs Full Plate + Guard's ring, difference will be -2 AC which is very noticeable if you make AC stacking. Also Cloak of Mirroring removes necessity to spell damage saves and against control effects I think J needs chaotic commands hanging on her anyway.
What I really always liked about Jaheira are Woodland Beings. If driad is not unsummoned by death spell and if GM was thrown, she have chance to crowd control several enemies without wasting casting rounds of main characters. Mass healing from driad is nice too.
the driads are very strong summons if properly used, it is possible to use the guard's ring and the ring of earth control at the same time, and stack also the cloak of the sewers, while having the bonus on the ST from the ring.
there are many ways to protect the characters, yours is not wrong, but the fact that an enchanted armor prevents to use an enchanted protection ring and the ring improves also the ST, while the armor does not remains true.
as the items that boost ac without been counted as magic, so can be stacked with magic items or armors, are very few, as well as the items like the cloak of mirroring or the belt that halves magical damage are few it completely depends on the party you have and somehow by the tactics you use who will get those.
some players like to stack them all on a toon to have a very strong tank, others prefer a more balanced use having more toons with good ac, but not the best one, and alternating them as tanks as the one that covers the role has to retreat and heal himself.
among the enchanted armors i find the one of the hart one of the weakest, as is a plate mail and not full plate, its real advantage is the weight, a toon that lacks of str can wear it without being over encumbered, but is an armor i rarely use, if i do is often with viconia as when she is not buffed she has a low str and a full plate for her is too much.
but different players different styles, if it works for your jaheira nothing wrong in using it for her, as i give always some str enhancing item to her, as 15 is too low, i usually give her some full plate, enchanted or not depends on what the other party members need.
Maybe you are talking about some other armor?
Armor of the Hart +3, which comes from Underdark from same demon which has belt of str 21. It is pure full plate (unlike Red Dragon Scale for example) = -2 AC, -5 vs piercing/missile, -6 vs slashing.
my bad, i was talking of a different one, the one you get in the first level of the dungeon under the asylum, the doomplate +3 that is a plate and not full plate. probably the fact that i use a italian localized version of the game both with the original and EE, so i see other names in my game, did not help.
the armor of the hart is a full plate so you need a +3 ring to get the same AC (and +3 ST) and as there is only one of such rings, that some players can choose to not get and others can choose to give to other toons, it is the best AC wise armor you can get at that moment.
i apologize for my mistake.
Oh, it's nothing to apologize for I like plain un-enchanted full plate too and usually keep 2 stolen suits in bag of holding. I really in love with aganazzar/lightning wands and those you can use even in full plate. So apply stoneskins, elemental resistances, IH, SI:abjuration, have contingency with PfMW or stoneskin, slap full plate on and jump into the melee combining high APR, high AC and cast from wand in first rounds. Real fun. If somebody never mass used lightning wands, I strongly recommend to try them, if target doesn't have 100% ER, lightning wand works even against high MR targets because it has 6 small lightnings. (if you have 3 mages, there will be 18 small lightnings! and if you have 4-5 mages even more) And if combat takes place in small space and there will be multiple reflections from walls, impact is massive. Also those lightnings reflect away all over the area and enemies start coming to ongoing slaughter in small packs, so you don't need to rebuff so often.
Ha-ha, a bit of necro and off-top, but I finally got it why Jaheira is better then Cernd. It's Harper's pin
Somehow I managed to miss it before or original game was bugged (I never romanced J in EE).. that item is massive.
Definitely go for a cleric if you like to backstab with your thieves, why? Because of Champion's Strength. This will give a bonus to your thac0 which increases as your cleric gains levels... very powerful and useful for single class thieves.. tho any class dealing physical damage will benefit from it.. If youre going with Anomen as your tank then its pretty straightforward, as I personally prefer not to cast during battle with cleric tanks due to the risk of being interrupted. Casting Champions Strength on an ally makes it so that you cant cast anything else while the buff is active, but as a clerictank you'll want to go in prebuffed anyhow.. so it shouldnt pose a problem.
Comments
At the moment i my maincharacter is using Foebane and Belm, while also having a lot of AC gear and that AC3 bracers. I think when i get the gauntlets with the extra half attack per round i'll give them to somebody else to keep these AC bracers. I still don't know which Robe i want to wear. Probably Robe of the Archmage for the saving throws i guess.
My Korgan is wielding Stonefire and Kundane so far. He also got the gloves of dex and the strength belt, after i got the strength gloves for Jaheira. I chose quarterstaffs for her, because mainchar and Korgan were using offhand speedweapons already and the only suitable character for scarlet ninja-to would be jan later.
Jaheira got the strength belt first but i switched her to the gloves for now after i got them. She is using quarterstaffs, weilding Staff of Rynn at the moment and club + shield in the second slot should i need it.
Anomen is wearing FoA and DoE, but it will be a long time until i can get his profession up. But fully buffed he is a real beast. The high level dispells and turn undeads really come in handy too. In the end i think he's the best compromise you get in this game for usefulness in melee and divine spells.
With Jan i'm switching around between Tuigan bow, Firetooth and Shortsword of Backstabbing. I'm still not that high on backstabbing, but i occasionally use it and he always brings some more spells to the table.
Edwin is my main mage and by now it's really hard to run him out of spells. I might switch the Ring of Wizzardry to Jan once he has Level 7 spells, because Edwin has so many slots naturally. He got the Robe of Vecna and the Crimson Dart.
I think i'll probably do Watchers Keep Level 2 before going to the asylum and i probably need to lower my reputation a bit, so i don't run into issues with Edwin and Korgan.
Oh and while i'd love to play a Blade once, i didn't consider Cernd for my party at all. Maybe i should use him once to see his personal story, but he never came over as an interesting character and i don't think the shifter kit is that interesting either.
there are good, but not OP weapons for jaheira in ToB, so i usually swap the +3 club for one of them, and keep belm OH unless the enemy needs more then +2 to be hit, only few enemies require it.
If the red dragon scales armor is equipped and with some caution on the placement of the other toons the club of detonation can be the main jaheira's weapon, and is one of the most damaging weapons in the game.
if jaheira needs to tank she can equip a shield, her apr will drop to 2.5, 5 improved hasted and 10 with GWW, but with a good shield and improved invisibility on she gets a very good end game AC.
and even if it happens only after 6M xp to cast implosion then attack in the same round is extremely powerful, even more if all your low thac0 characters also focus on the enemy stunned by the implosion as he is automatically hit, on top of the damage he takes by the spell. From 6M on she can do it for many rounds in a row with correct timing and using the AoP the casting is a little faster so the next stun happens as, or only slightly after the previous one expires. i should not even say that the spell does 10d10 blunt (the less resisted) and 10d10 fire, only half if is saved, but mainly ignores MR, but as also people with less knowledge of those participating to the thread may read it is worth to tell it.
a lot of ways to make jaheira a strong end game character.
a +4 club that when welded grants GM in clubs, combined with the one of detonation is super strong used by a multi.
and a wonderful scimitar that has the same reach of a 2Hweapon, with an unique attack animation, that allows jaheira to hit from behind a tank.
those weapons are not really needed by who plays vanilla and some players don't like anyway the level of power of the items you can upgrade in that mod, but wanting a very strong jaheira and don't having those problems those 2 weapons can really give her an advantage.
about the ranged use of jan and edwin i think that crimson dart and tugian is good for the minor battles as there is plenty of arrows and the returning dart does not consume ammo, but when the game becomes harder, in the main battles, maybe it is better to switch to returning daggers for both if not even slings, particularly for edwin that not only has mage's thac0, but only 10 dex.
both the slings and the returning daggers use str bonus and even before you have many str enhancing items there are 2 spells that can grant str bonus, the cheap arcane one, but also the cleric's strength of the one, that affects every toon in its aoe (just avoid that people with more str or str setting items are near anomen when he cast it, he will anyway override it for himself with the usual buffing procedure).
str can add damage and for the sling as both the launcher and bullet stack it is possible to get a way better thac0 then with the returning daggers or dart.
crimson dart gives +3 thac0, the everard sling with a +2 bullet gives +7, and this can change everything for edwin in the battles when also his ranged damage will help. he will have less apr, but will hit way more often, and when it happens str, launcher and bullet damage bonuses stack so even with 18 or 18.50str his 1 or 2 attacks (you can use the regular haste as the battles that matter usually are the last ones of a dungeon and you will possibly rest anyway after them) will do a damage that is at least noticeable, better then having him with better apr, but missing often and doing few damage when he hits.
using, at least for the main battles, the auto pause on end of round is very easy to have him and jan throw their bullets/daggers at the beginning of a round then cast a spell, relocate, use a wand or potion or whatever.
i post it only now as you posted as i did notice before that you posted as your post was the first in page 2 of the thread so i completely missed it.
What I really always liked about Jaheira are Woodland Beings. If driad is not unsummoned by death spell and if GM was thrown, she have chance to crowd control several enemies without wasting casting rounds of main characters. Mass healing from driad is nice too.
there are many ways to protect the characters, yours is not wrong, but the fact that an enchanted armor prevents to use an enchanted protection ring and the ring improves also the ST, while the armor does not remains true.
as the items that boost ac without been counted as magic, so can be stacked with magic items or armors, are very few, as well as the items like the cloak of mirroring or the belt that halves magical damage are few it completely depends on the party you have and somehow by the tactics you use who will get those.
some players like to stack them all on a toon to have a very strong tank, others prefer a more balanced use having more toons with good ac, but not the best one, and alternating them as tanks as the one that covers the role has to retreat and heal himself.
among the enchanted armors i find the one of the hart one of the weakest, as is a plate mail and not full plate, its real advantage is the weight, a toon that lacks of str can wear it without being over encumbered, but is an armor i rarely use, if i do is often with viconia as when she is not buffed she has a low str and a full plate for her is too much.
but different players different styles, if it works for your jaheira nothing wrong in using it for her, as i give always some str enhancing item to her, as 15 is too low, i usually give her some full plate, enchanted or not depends on what the other party members need.
Armor of the Hart +3, which comes from Underdark from same demon which has belt of str 21. It is pure full plate (unlike Red Dragon Scale for example) = -2 AC, -5 vs piercing/missile, -6 vs slashing.
the armor of the hart is a full plate so you need a +3 ring to get the same AC (and +3 ST) and as there is only one of such rings, that some players can choose to not get and others can choose to give to other toons, it is the best AC wise armor you can get at that moment.
i apologize for my mistake.
Somehow I managed to miss it before or original game was bugged (I never romanced J in EE).. that item is massive.