[REQ] BG1 style "required passage" forests for BG2?
Maurvir
Member Posts: 1,090
I'm not sure if I have asked this before, but are there any mods that add forest roads like the ones in BG1, where you have to pass through at least once to open up areas further way?
This was one aspect of BG1 I really missed in BG2, and it somehow makes the Faerun feel smaller as a result. Even if there are only randomly spawned creatures, just walking through the woods would be a nice way to make it feel like a journey. Maybe a few between the city gates and the De'Arnise Keep, Trademeet, Umar Hills, the Druid Forest, and the Windspear Hills.
Ideally, there would be a whole sequence of them, but I imagine that would be a tough sell to create that much artwork, but it would be nice if there were a few "intersections" in the forest that you would have to pass through to discover the more far flung locations. Areas remain "inaccessible" until you exit either north, south, or east.
In this case, Delon might tell you about the Umar Hills, but it would be "unreachable" until you went through one of these intersection forests. Similarly for Nalia, and the keep. There is also a lake right next to Trademeet, which could make for a really nice intersection area that could be "mostly water".
What I have in mind is beyond my skill, and since most people fast-travel after the first visit, maybe not worth it without added quests, but I really like the idea of more open road. For added flavor, maybe add random travelers, some of who might need to be saved from creatures (or robbed, if you are evil) from time to time to keep them from becoming stagnant.
To be a bit more specific, based on the map from the original SoA game, I would have:
1) A new grassy valley with rolling hills and farmland (maybe with a few farmhouses?) between the city and De'Arnise keep. I always wondered why there was never an adjacent map, since the keep supposedly has land. East takes you to the keep, south takes you to #4. I believe one of Dorn's areas is also near there, though I never play with him.
As a bonus, NPCs could have dialog based on the De'Arnise keep plot, and whether they are happy or not.
1A) Change De'Arnise keep so that leaving the keep to the south opens up #4, while leaving from either the south or the east opens up area #2. Area #1 should already be open, but west would do it otherwise.
2) A new lakeside area (north side of the lake) between De-Arnise Keep and Trademeet. East opens up Umar Hills and Windspear Hills. South Takes you to Trademeet. West would open up the De'Arnise keep. If the Rasaad quest is active, north would open up the first forest area of his quest - with the ruined amphitheater.
2A) Change Trademeet so that leaving to the south or east should open up forest #3 and north or west should open area #2.
3) A new forest between Trademeet and the Druid Grove, where East or South opens up the grove. South (only) might open up the chapter 6 areas in the Tethyrian forest.
3a) Modify the forest areas in chapter 6 to open up area's #3 or #4 appropriately. Specifically the one to the west should open up #4 on the western edge, while the one to the east should open up #3 when leaving from the north or east. (The idea here is that these existing forests could be looped in to provide a southern path around the lake)
4) A new small forest with an inn between the forest in 1 and Watcher's Keep - since that is one long haul. Also, leaving from the east could open up #3, while leaving to the south would open up Watcher's Keep. Leaving to the north would open up #1, but it should already be open. If Neera's quest is active, this could also link to her locations.
4A) Modify Watcher's Keep so that it can also unlock the Neera quest areas if active.
4B) Modify Neera's quest areas so that they can do the inverse, and unlock Watcher's Keep.
This was one aspect of BG1 I really missed in BG2, and it somehow makes the Faerun feel smaller as a result. Even if there are only randomly spawned creatures, just walking through the woods would be a nice way to make it feel like a journey. Maybe a few between the city gates and the De'Arnise Keep, Trademeet, Umar Hills, the Druid Forest, and the Windspear Hills.
Ideally, there would be a whole sequence of them, but I imagine that would be a tough sell to create that much artwork, but it would be nice if there were a few "intersections" in the forest that you would have to pass through to discover the more far flung locations. Areas remain "inaccessible" until you exit either north, south, or east.
In this case, Delon might tell you about the Umar Hills, but it would be "unreachable" until you went through one of these intersection forests. Similarly for Nalia, and the keep. There is also a lake right next to Trademeet, which could make for a really nice intersection area that could be "mostly water".
What I have in mind is beyond my skill, and since most people fast-travel after the first visit, maybe not worth it without added quests, but I really like the idea of more open road. For added flavor, maybe add random travelers, some of who might need to be saved from creatures (or robbed, if you are evil) from time to time to keep them from becoming stagnant.
To be a bit more specific, based on the map from the original SoA game, I would have:
1) A new grassy valley with rolling hills and farmland (maybe with a few farmhouses?) between the city and De'Arnise keep. I always wondered why there was never an adjacent map, since the keep supposedly has land. East takes you to the keep, south takes you to #4. I believe one of Dorn's areas is also near there, though I never play with him.
As a bonus, NPCs could have dialog based on the De'Arnise keep plot, and whether they are happy or not.
1A) Change De'Arnise keep so that leaving the keep to the south opens up #4, while leaving from either the south or the east opens up area #2. Area #1 should already be open, but west would do it otherwise.
2) A new lakeside area (north side of the lake) between De-Arnise Keep and Trademeet. East opens up Umar Hills and Windspear Hills. South Takes you to Trademeet. West would open up the De'Arnise keep. If the Rasaad quest is active, north would open up the first forest area of his quest - with the ruined amphitheater.
2A) Change Trademeet so that leaving to the south or east should open up forest #3 and north or west should open area #2.
3) A new forest between Trademeet and the Druid Grove, where East or South opens up the grove. South (only) might open up the chapter 6 areas in the Tethyrian forest.
3a) Modify the forest areas in chapter 6 to open up area's #3 or #4 appropriately. Specifically the one to the west should open up #4 on the western edge, while the one to the east should open up #3 when leaving from the north or east. (The idea here is that these existing forests could be looped in to provide a southern path around the lake)
4) A new small forest with an inn between the forest in 1 and Watcher's Keep - since that is one long haul. Also, leaving from the east could open up #3, while leaving to the south would open up Watcher's Keep. Leaving to the north would open up #1, but it should already be open. If Neera's quest is active, this could also link to her locations.
4A) Modify Watcher's Keep so that it can also unlock the Neera quest areas if active.
4B) Modify Neera's quest areas so that they can do the inverse, and unlock Watcher's Keep.
Post edited by Maurvir on
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Comments
Area #1 would seem like a natural place for a wolves and maybe a bear cave somewhere. This could literally be the stock "cave" from BG1, since this isn't intended to be a huge mod.
Area #2, being on a lake, could bring in water elementals or nereids.
Area #3, given it's location, a troll cave would be fitting. Alternately, a repeat of the spider cave from SoD would be nice. That was a fun dungeon!
Area #4 would already have an inn, and doesn't even need to be a full-size map. Having the inn be usable would be awesome, though. This could be one of those low-rent single floor inns, like the one in Nashkel. (Actually, given the location, a modified version of that would be a PERFECT inn for this map)
Oh, and those stone signposts from BG1 were great for letting you know which way to go. Not sure if those would be doable, though.
Sorry, I'm completely wrong
Technically, this doesn't seem very challenging from a scripting standpoint, though I would need to learn how to actually do the patches. The problem is that it would need new artwork that matches the BG aesthetic, which is beyond me.
Thus, the idea is that you have to exit these new maps to unlock further away map areas. The first iteration would just handle SoA quests and areas - De'Arnise Keep, Trademeet, Windspear Hills, Umar Hills, the Druid Grove, Watcher's Keep, Dorn's quest gorge, Neera's quest wilderness, and Rasaad's quest amphitheater.
Maybe this would be harder than I think, but it seems like it should be doable based on existing mechanics in the game. There would obviously need to be some checks for quest variables, since you would have no business at De'Arnise Keep if you haven't talked to Nalia yet, etc. (Though, in theory, De'Arnise keep could be entirely solved by just locking the door under the keep until the quest variable is set)
I dunno, but this is a mod I've been thinking about since I first learned you could mod these games years ago. I hated that all the wilderness areas were missing in SoA - and I've been playing since before ToB came out. The only thing keeping me from jumping in is my knowledge that I completely suck at art, and this mod would require landscape art at a minimum.
Is there a better forum to ask for this mod, or even for help, as I'd be willing to dig into the code - something I theoretically *should* be able to do.
I was thinking about an inn as well, and there is a canon inn along the Trade Way called "The Battlescarred Bard" that is described in Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate 2. I thought this area would be a good addition to the existing game.
I only have rough area sketches right now, but I could easily finish this area and the others if there is interest from the community.
Proper coding could be a problem, since you have to patch a lot of data of the world map files. But since there are many experienced WeiDU wizards around here, I'm sure you can find help once the concept is worked out.
I have looked into the code a bit, but to say that it is non-intuitive is putting it mildly. However, I do hope this mod can be pulled off. There just isn't enough of Amn accessible in SoA.
This is even worse in ToB, but that expansion is usually so short, and time-constrained, that it hardly makes sense. The incident at the oasis was a cruel teaser in that way, as it implied that you might have to deal with other issues - but nope, it was a straight slog to the throne.
Personally my opinion is that it would be a poor fit for BG 2 - at that level range you shouldn't really just stumble across interesting adventures in the forest areas of a human nation. Random Xvart villages, wolves, bears, and hobgoblin tribes aren't level appropriate content at this point. Those are great for low-level BG1 while the dungeon module style with the big stronghold quests seems better for BG 2. The alternative would be adding high-level stuff but that would make the pre-exisitng BG 2 phenomena of every house having their personal cellar lich even worse.
But to each their own.
That's actually a great mod idea right there. Move Kangaxx to the countryside somewhere and put a root cellar where he used to be. The other liches in the city are fine, as it would make more sense to move the *essential parts to restore him* as far away from his lair as possible. Shoot, you could put the parts of the map to his location in three pieces, so that it pops up when you finally defeat the third guardian lich.
That, and maybe tie the one in the Crooked Crane to the other three in some way. I mean seriously. How many unrelated liches can one city accommodate?
However, I do feel that there is a middle ground here. In theory, you would be exploring these shortly after SoD (assuming you do a full run), and these would almost invariably be SoA chapter 2 areas. That is why I thought some SoD level enemies might be a good choice. We already have plenty of trolls in the druid grove and De'Arnise keep, but high-level sword and phase spiders (and associated web traps) are something that can still take down an unwary mid-level party. The same is true of a whole pack of vampiric wolves.
Really, though, the idea was more to add additional explorable areas to the map. No need for more high-powered loot, or even XP farms. Just something to make the trip a bit more interesting. Maybe a little early fighting with the druids by putting some on the path. I mean, they are attacking Trademeet - why don't you see any in the vicinity? Those fights are nice because they are some of the few where you can really break out the AoE spells with near impunity.