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Shapeshifter thac0

GelsominoGelsomino Member Posts: 51
edited June 18 in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
why is werewolf-shapeshifter thac0 so bad?

thac0 of all classes at exp 2500000, strength 17, weapon +3 :

fighter -4
monk -2
ranger, paladin 0
cleric 4
thief, bard, shaman 6
druid, shapeshifter (werewolf form) 8
mage, sorcerer 11

in case of half-orc with 19 str picture gets even worse...

is there any workaround for this?
Post edited by Gelsomino on

Comments

  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 902
    Because druid levels progression is weird.
    At 2,500,000 XP they are only level 14, meaning not so good ThAC0.
    But after 3,000,000 XP, they level up faster and their thAC0 improves.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 4,107
    Druids have that medium priest progression in THAC0. Which is a long way behind warriors, especially because you don't have the cleric-only buff spells for personal combat. And even worse when you're in the slow part of the level curve.

    And then, shapeshift forms have a drawback that isn't immediately obvious: no to-hit bonus on the weapon's attack ability. You get a strength bonus, but that's all. Manufactured weapons with high enchantment are just better at hitting things.

    So, what are the werewolf forms actually good for? The basic form is good for hitting things at low levels. The greater werewolf form isn't good for hitting things at its level, but it's a fantastic tank. 50% elemental resistances, high magic resistance, incredible AC, and even regeneration (in patch 2.6). The shapeshifter tanks up front, and the rest of the party dishes out the damage.
  • GelsominoGelsomino Member Posts: 51
    thank you guys
  • GelsominoGelsomino Member Posts: 51
    edited June 18
    werewolf form has 3 apr and easily gets 25 str with level 1 spell "strength of stone" and seeing that damage potential wasted is very sad.

    so, as a workaround, how about concentrating on these spells/effects:

    Hold
    Paralyze
    Sleep
    Unconsciousness
    Stun
    Web

    because under those effects target gets hit 100% regardless of attacker thac0

    will it work mostly or do later tough enemies are mostly immune to these?
    Post edited by Gelsomino on
  • GelsominoGelsomino Member Posts: 51
    edited June 18
    oh, and one funny thing: werewolf token is a two-handed dagger :) it makes use of dagger proficiency and two-handed weapons proficiency
    do i have some bug, or is it designed that way?

    is it worth to dual to fighter for dagger grandmastery and second point in two-handed weapons?
    Post edited by Gelsomino on
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 4,107
    Is that the SCS version? A bit worse AC than unmodded, but better on the attack. And far easier to switch between werewolf and caster modes. (Unmodded, it's a "hand to hand" weapon that benefits from the same gauntlets as monk attacks)

    You can do all sorts of nonsense with those shapeshift tokens ... like build a whole party of werewolves, only one of which is an actual Shapeshifter druid. (I've done that. It was fun.)
  • GelsominoGelsomino Member Posts: 51
    edited June 18
    yes, SCS.

    so your shapeshifter actually spread the lycanthropy :)

    now i used console and here are the stats of max level characters:

    fighter lvl 40
    str 18/00
    longsword +3
    thac0 -9
    apr 3
    dmg 15-22

    shapeshifter lvl 31
    "strength of stone" buff
    thac0 -1
    apr 3
    dmg 17-27

    dual class shapeshifter lvl 13 -> fighter lvl 37
    without "strength of stone" buff, because of very low caster level of 13 it will be dispelled easily
    thac0 -7
    apr 5
    dmg 17-27

    with "strength of stone" buff, for fights where enemy does not have dispel
    thac0 -10
    apr 5
    dmg 22-32

    well, to my surprise i just discovered that shapeshifters are not as bad as i thoght, in SCS anyway, i have not tested in unmodded game

    if i missed something feel free to add/correct
    Post edited by Gelsomino on
  • TrouveurTrouveur Member Posts: 902
    edited June 18
    Gelsomino wrote: »
    oh, and one funny thing: werewolf token is a two-handed dagger :) it makes use of dagger proficiency and two-handed weapons proficiency
    do i have some bug, or is it designed that way?
    In unmodded game there is no token, so no it's not designed this way.
    EE Fixpack doesn't allow shapeshift forms to benefit from either weapons proficiencies or weapons styles bonus by the way.
    Also Strength of stone is not present in unmodded game.

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