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Where are all the minorities in fantasy?

24

Comments

  • GygaxianProseGygaxianProse Member Posts: 201
    What irks me is those that extrapolate that, because medieval fantasy is primarily european, the monster races like Orcs represent minorities.
    One can certainly choose to see parallels between racist dogma and the race/class restrictions of D&D, and neo nazis are unfortunately attracted to the fantasy genre for these perceived reasons, but at the end of the day, a false premise is just that.
    I have seen a lot of non european based settings for RPGs. My friends and I once had a blast playing a kung fu film inspired campaign using a combination of AD&D Oriental Adventures, and Palladium's Mystic China.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    @LadyRhian Is Anchorome visible on those maps? Always had the impression it was close to Maztica/geographical North America.

  • DeltaslayerDeltaslayer Member Posts: 49
    This is why I hate the whole "librul" thing, that keeps searching every game, movie, whatever..., for "wacists","misogynists" and "not enough minorities"... They are called 'minorities' for a reason you know...

    Also, something tells me that in the future, every main character will have to be bisexual (or even pansexual, ugh).

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566

    Also, something tells me that in the future, every main character will have to be bisexual (or even pansexual, ugh).

    The future of gaming protagonists:

    image

  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    edited November 2012

    This is why I hate the whole "librul" thing, that keeps searching every game, movie, whatever..., for "wacists","misogynists" and "not enough minorities"... They are called 'minorities' for a reason you know...

    Also, something tells me that in the future, every main character will have to be bisexual (or even pansexual, ugh).

    I guess the definition of "minorities" depends on where they're trying to market the game. I live in the U.S., but in the state where I live white people make up only 25% of the population, so its really a geographic thing. Also, since they aren't selling BGEE in stores and are only downloading from the Internet, anyone in the world can buy it. Almost every portrait in the game may be of a white person, but white people actually make up a very small percentage of the Earth's population. India and China alone have more people than all of Europe, the U.S., Canada, and Australia combined.

    Earth's demographics aside, there are nonwhite characters in the Forgotten Realms universe. The drow and duergar are good examples of this. I've personally always wanted to play a drow character, not because they aren't white but because I find them interesting. Right now its possible to change the skin tone of the characters as they appear in the game, but not the portraits. Because of this, there are characters that look nothing like their portraits and that is a discrepancy that to me seems off.

    ElessarRisingsun
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Shin said:

    @LadyRhian Is Anchorome visible on those maps? Always had the impression it was close to Maztica/geographical North America.

    Anchorome is north of Maztica, but it has never been detailed and thanks to 4e it never will.

  • theJoshFrosttheJoshFrost Member Posts: 171

    This is why I hate the whole "librul" thing, that keeps searching every game, movie, whatever..., for "wacists","misogynists" and "not enough minorities"... They are called 'minorities' for a reason you know...

    Also, something tells me that in the future, every main character will have to be bisexual (or even pansexual, ugh).

    Calm down, Mr. Bachmann. I'm pretty sure your concerns are exaggerated.

    MedullaOblongata
  • MedullaOblongataMedullaOblongata Member Posts: 434
    I recall seeing somewhere a Kickstarter for an rpg where all of the characters are not straight and non-caucasian... I'll have to go hunt that link down...

  • DeltaslayerDeltaslayer Member Posts: 49
    @Drugar
    I don't get it, who is that guy?

    @ARKdeEREH
    I know what you mean, but I don't even know who is to blame. If you look at the majority of jrpg's, most characters looks more like european than asians, almost like if whites are the 'default'.

    @theJoshFrost
    Who is this 'Mr. Bachmann' guy?
    And I hope you are right about my concerns.

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    @Deltaslayer
    The Todd from the comedy series Scrubs, a surgeon who at first hits on all the ladies, then all the men, then on basicly everything that moves. A great fan of double entendres too (with such high-brow classics like "I'd like to double her entendre, high five!").

  • GygaxianProseGygaxianProse Member Posts: 201

    This is why I hate the whole "librul" thing, that keeps searching every game, movie, whatever..., for "wacists","misogynists" and "not enough minorities"...

    If no one is watching for wolves, then what happens?


    MedullaOblongata
  • DeltaslayerDeltaslayer Member Posts: 49
    @GygaxianProse
    I think we are our own "wolves"...
    I don't think Tolkien was racist for instance, I just think some people nitpick everything they can put their hands on. Just excuses to make unecessary racial "tension".

  • MedullaOblongataMedullaOblongata Member Posts: 434

    @GygaxianProse
    I think we are our own "wolves"...
    I don't think Tolkien was racist for instance, I just think some people nitpick everything they can put their hands on. Just excuses to make unecessary racial "tension".

    Such as?

  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602

    @GygaxianProse
    I think we are our own "wolves"...
    I don't think Tolkien was racist for instance, I just think some people nitpick everything they can put their hands on. Just excuses to make unecessary racial "tension".

    I agree completely.

    Tolkien lived in a society dominated by a white British population.
    He wrote stories inspired by Anglo-Saxon and Nordic/Scandinavian myths and lore. Of course he didn't think of putting Chinese/African/Eskimo/insert your preferred race here/ in the stories.

    The world have change immensely since he wrote his books.
    Now we have a Multi cultural society in most if not all of the western world, for better or for worse, but his and his contemporaries world was vastly different from hours in that regard.

    Also,that being said, in Baldur's Gate, there's a whole host of different races, like dwarves and elves, so I don't understand the concern at all. Why would there be African or Chinese people in that world at all?
    China and Africa doesn't exist in that world at all....

    typo_tilly
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Bytebrain said:


    Also,that being said, in Baldur's Gate, there's a whole host of different races, like dwarves and elves, so I don't understand the concern at all. Why would there be African or Chinese people in that world at all?
    China and Africa doesn't exist in that world at all....

    There is no "Africa" or "Asia" but there is "Chult" and "Kara-tur" and it is good.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Whilst I assume without reading the thread that NWN2's Storm of Zehir campaign module and its "ethnically variable" characters, has been mentioned, and the fact that the Sword Coast where most of the games take place in simply doesn't have the mix in population necessary or racial divisions required to create subcultures (since race is typically a non-issue in the realms, perhaps ironically this leads to greater homogenity as incoming racial outliers are welcomed and, well, bred with, rapidly disseminating their distinctive ethnic features), I feel I should mention the fantasy TV show "Merlin".

    Theoretically set in what I assume to be Saxon England, not only are multiple ethnicities commonplace, but they decided to cast Guinevere, legendarily pasty gingery blonde noblelady as she is in legend, as a blacksmith's daughter, who is black and built as one might expect a blacksmith's daughter to be built.

    The mind boggles.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Shin The anvil shape on top of Maztica's upside down comma is Anchorome, according to the wiki.

    @Bytebrain The Realms has areas analogous to Africa, Asia and the Middle East, though. Kara-Tur is the far east, including Tibet, China, Korea and Japan (Tabot, T'u Lung, Shou Lung, Wa, Kozakura and so on. Africa is in places like Chult and the Middle East is from places like Thay, Turmish and Mulhorand and the lands around as well as Al'Quadim.

    LordsDarkKnight185
  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    LadyRhian said:

    @Shin The anvil shape on top of Maztica's upside down comma is Anchorome, according to the wiki.

    @Bytebrain The Realms has areas analogous to Africa, Asia and the Middle East, though. Kara-Tur is the far east, including Tibet, China, Korea and Japan (Tabot, T'u Lung, Shou Lung, Wa, Kozakura and so on. Africa is in places like Chult and the Middle East is from places like Thay, Turmish and Mulhorand and the lands around as well as Al'Quadim.

    I stand corrected. :-)
    I don't know much about the lore of BG. I was writing mostly to make a point about the world Tolkien lived in, and tacked the other stuff on about races in BG as an afterthought. In the back of my mind, I think I knew I didn't know enough lore to be able to make that stick.. :-)

  • GygaxianProseGygaxianProse Member Posts: 201
    edited November 2012
    Bytebrain said:

    @GygaxianProse
    I think we are our own "wolves"...
    I don't think Tolkien was racist for instance, I just think some people nitpick everything they can put their hands on. Just excuses to make unecessary racial "tension".

    I agree completely.

    Tolkien lived in a society dominated by a white British population.
    He wrote stories inspired by Anglo-Saxon and Nordic/Scandinavian myths and lore. Of course he didn't think of putting Chinese/African/Eskimo/insert your preferred race here/ in the stories.

    The world have change immensely since he wrote his books.
    Now we have a Multi cultural society in most if not all of the western world, for better or for worse, but his and his contemporaries world was vastly different from hours in that regard.

    Also,that being said, in Baldur's Gate, there's a whole host of different races, like dwarves and elves, so I don't understand the concern at all. Why would there be African or Chinese people in that world at all?
    China and Africa doesn't exist in that world at all....


    There are layers to the conversation I hadn't read. I believe Tolkien to have been a humanist. Its easy to read parallels too our world, but Tolkien insisted his works weren't allegory, and I believe him. There are humans siding with Mordor, but the underlying theme of the Hobbit, and LOTR, is differing peoples coming together to defeat great evil. But Mordor isn't Germany, and the Southrons arent blacks or muslims.
    As to my previous comment...we'd have to be discussing specific examples, but those who would demean our women, and foster racism, knowingly or unknowingly, still need to be dealt with. Political Correctness is an unfortunate byproduct, but should not be confused with the real thing.
    @Deltaslayer: which I gather you understand, via your use of "librul". I think we all hate them too. But much of the Right can make so such distinction.

  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,581
    Man I love Forgotten Realms

    LordsDarkKnight185
  • FigrutFigrut Member Posts: 109
    Fantasy role play developers HATE HATE HATE black vampires, hobbits and frankenstines. It is 2012, do not expect too much from those that remake games either. If I see a negro liche, I would be damned impressed with beamdog, but that is expecting ENTIRELY too much.

  • flame867flame867 Member Posts: 32
    Well, what I have to say about this issue, is that its a common stereo type.
    So here, lets think for a second, whats the first character that comes to your mind when I say this. A hero ventures forth into an on coming danger, they draw their sword and face the enemy head on. what kind of character comes into your mind?
    It's not intentional, its just a fact that the first thing that comes to most peoples minds is a white middle aged or young male. but who's to say that hero couldn't have been black, Asian, or even female.
    personally I think that there should be some racial diversity in games, and not the stereotypical kind, like the generic black dude, or the Asian ninja, what ever. but fully fleshed out characters that are diverse in there own racial and gender specific ways.
    Sorry for ranting, anyways if you look up "extra credits" their video's go more in depth about what I have been talking about.

    MedullaOblongata
  • theJoshFrosttheJoshFrost Member Posts: 171
    flame867 said:

    Well, what I have to say about this issue, is that its a common stereo type.
    So here, lets think for a second, whats the first character that comes to your mind when I say this. A hero ventures forth into an on coming danger, they draw their sword and face the enemy head on. what kind of character comes into your mind?

    Do you think that perhaps what comes into most peoples mind is because most people in the west are white? What if you ask someone in Japan that question, do you think they would picture a young white male?

    ARKdeEREH
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Figrut Witness the hate on the internet when they cast Idris Alba, a black man, as Heimdall in the THOR movie. :P

    Moomintroll
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Figrut said:

    Fantasy role play developers HATE HATE HATE black vampires, hobbits and frankenstines. It is 2012, do not expect too much from those that remake games either. If I see a negro liche, I would be damned impressed with beamdog, but that is expecting ENTIRELY too much.

    The hell are you talking about? Kangaxx is so clearly black, I don't even feel the need to explain.

    I do however totally agree with the hobbit hatred. I hate hobbits too, gimme halflings anyday.

  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    Pantalion said:

    Figrut said:

    Fantasy role play developers HATE HATE HATE black vampires, hobbits and frankenstines. It is 2012, do not expect too much from those that remake games either. If I see a negro liche, I would be damned impressed with beamdog, but that is expecting ENTIRELY too much.

    The hell are you talking about? Kangaxx is so clearly black, I don't even feel the need to explain.

    I do however totally agree with the hobbit hatred. I hate hobbits too, gimme halflings anyday.
    Kangaxx is a golden skeleton and later a flying gold skull. I'm not sure how that makes him black.

  • swnmcmlxiswnmcmlxi Member Posts: 297
    ARKdeEREH said:

    Pantalion said:

    Kangaxx is a golden skeleton and later a flying gold skull. I'm not sure how that makes him black.

    Too blinged up to be white???

  • iassoniasson Member Posts: 101
    edited November 2012
    Why bother to put labels on things? A game where all are whites. Ok, cool, if black people dont like it then noone is going to make them play it. A game full of black people. White people dont like it? Dont play it. A game full of men ruling over women. Feminists dont like it? Dont play it. A game of women keeping men lock up only for recreational reasons. Mens dont like it? Dont play it.
    The choice is always yours. Dont like something? DONT PLAY/READ/SEE IT. That simple.
    And instead of bitching and judging, move your lazy arsch and make something that fits your likes.
    If you try to bring me up to my sences or reply in an extreme *sofisticated* way, i will start trolling you.

    Deltaslayer
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