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Magic points game breaking?

Swap out the spell slots to points then make lvl 1 costs 1 point , lvl 2 cost 2 points on up to lvl 10 cost 10 points. Spells cost lvl 1 is one point lvl 10 is 10 points.

You recharge your magic via resting for 24 hours.

How "game breaking" is that setup? I am just curious, it seems the same to me and maybe even more strategic than the slot point system.


  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    It's most noticeable at higher levels. Consider:

    A level 20 wizard with 5 spell slots per level (it doesn't work out that way, but for the sake of argument). That works out to: (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9=45) x 5 points to spend. 45x5=225 points total.

    This means that, before having to rest, you can cast twenty-two (22!) level 10 spells and one level 5 spell.

    If you're a sorcerer, you can cast even more.

    The result is a lot more high-level spells being cast, and virtually no low-level spells. That's the problem a lot of MP systems face, and it's one you'll have to resolve before you can call it a success.

  • ZippydsmleeZippydsmlee Member Posts: 19
    Mmmmm so if you double cost of spells it comes out to 10 high level, a mid level and maybe a low level spell. Mmmmm I suppose its not solely a point issue.

    Running on cool downs alone might work better. Let me see if I can get my crack addled brain in gear and muse something neat up. LOL

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Something else might be a combination of Sorcerer spell slots, wizard preparation, and cool-downs.

    In other words, you choose which spells to prepare, and you can cast any of them throughout the day as if you were a sorcerer, but each level has a cool-down period of, say, a minute.

  • ZippydsmleeZippydsmlee Member Posts: 19
    Very well thought out that is ^^

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Well, that said, I have NO idea how you'd code something like that as a mod. You'd have to somehow combine the Wizard and Sorcerer spellcasting methods, and then figure out a way to disable entire levels of spellcasting for a set period of time.

    But if it could be done, it would be neat.

  • SirCumferenceSirCumference Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2012
    What about a system where you prepare a certain amount of spells from each level and the cooldown of the spells won't activate until all of your prepared spells are used. In order to offset the fact that you don't have a CD for those spells you could set the CD to be a few in game hours or something so you would have to hit the rest button pretty much.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Part of the balancing factor in the "cooldown" based on level is that you have to choose carefully what spells you use in which situations. You might cast Magic Missile, and then have to wait before casting Armor, and wish that you'd started by buffing yourself. And that's a good thing to be thinking about.

    It also forces you to spread out your spell selection across levels. If you cast a spell every round, and each level has a cooldown of one minute, that means (at top levels) you will have to cast one spell of every level before you can cast them again. It forces you to cast your low-level spells as well as your high-level ones, which diversifies your tactics considerably.

    Interestingly, that's sort of how most games with cool-downs operate. You get into a routine of casting your five best spells in order from best to worst, so that by the time you've used your least powerful spell, you're ready to start again at the top. The balancing factor there is that you're still limited to a certain number of raw spells per level per day. So you will have to rest at some point, but it won't be because you cast your only preparation of Melf's Acid Arrow; it will be because you cast all your level 2 spells.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    With the points system, taking a level 18 Wild Mage, you now have 148 casts of any spell in the game via Nahal's, and no longer need to select your spells in advance, meaning you are essentially a drastically better mage than any other without restraint or restriction.

    Sorcerers, on the other hand, will have 235 spell points, but why bother? Mages are now sorcerers without the tiny number of spells known.

    With the same points system, any mage can cast a Chromatic Orb every round of combat they might conceivably be in combat for, meaning Death Spell spammable as often as necessary until your target rolls that 1. Any mage can cast effectively infinite quantities of Magic Missile, meaning 10-25 damage instantly cast per turn, reliably disrupting pretty much any spells your opposition might choose to cast - except there is no reason for a mage not to have a Shield active at pretty much all times giving them a base 2 AC with Armour and Dex at all times.

    Paladins are irrelevant, because a Mage can ultimately cast Protection from Evil about as many times as they can, and as all mages are effectively Super Sorcerers, they always have access to conditionally useful spells such as "protection from petrication" and "Friends", and always have a handy Spook to crowd control their enemies.

    Level 2 spells you can only cast 79 times (taking up 2 uses of your plentiful level 1 spells), but that's still far more than you could possibly expect to need assuming ten combats of five rounds each per day. Glitterdust at will (aka AOE blindness), Blur and Mirror Images for absolute magical security.

    Level 3 spells only could give you 49 casts per day, but one haste every combat, MMMs whenever you need them, more Skull Traps than you could ever need and an army of potential summoned creatures that isn't really going to be an issue. Again, conditional spells with no opportunity cost, so protection from fire/cold the moment you see that dragon, preparation is so 1977.

    Level 4 spells: Forget everything else, just explore the entire map with Farsight, 37 of them should be more than enough to scry and fry anything on the map, especially with Greater Malison as needed for those "tough" targets. Endless Sequencers can also twin cast two level two spells at once if you really need rapidfire damage output. I'm sure polymorph can come in handy one way or another, and you'll never care about cursed items. Ever.

    Level 5: Just kidding. We're still on level 4. Stoneskins baby! Make sure your mage is invulnerable to damage whenever you gotta, it's pretty unlikely that you'll ever run through all your castings in a day's worth of encounters.

    Level 5: Breach 29 times a day? Yes please, and whenever one of your nigh infinite numbers of crowd control spells hits, drop a cloudkill on them to rend them with no hope of survival. If you've got enemy mages around then spell immunity's nice, especially since you can always recast it no problem.

    Level 6: Death Spell 24 times a day. That means instant death for most summons, and quite a number of larger targets. Improved Haste is a nice one to cast too, since now you can do it for an easy six encounters a day without pushing yourself. True Sight as necessary too, and I can't even be bothered to cover the rest of the conditional spells.

    Level 7: Limited Wish.

    Now here's a funny one. Casting Limited Wish with a decent amount of wisdom gives the option to restore a level 1 spell, a level 2 spell, a level 3 spell, and a level 4 spell. That's 10 spell points for the cost of 7. This means the mage has actually never been capable of running out of spells since level 14.

    Level 8: Send in the Clones. Around fifteen mini-mages with their own spell point capacities will be able to spam their own lower level spells ad nauseam, essentially giving the mage 40 or more spell points for the cost of 8.

    Level 9: Unlike non-spellpoint mages, as soon as they hit level 18 these guys can pop off 16 level 9s straight away, rather than two, tops. That means kill anything with less than 60 HP anywhere ever, Time Stop for up to 48 rounds per day, Wish until you get lucky and restore all your spells instantly (whilst gaining wish benefits every time), and endless quantities of Shapechange, to ensure you are a mindflayer and can kill anything.

    Level 10: Always have energy blades available when you need them, always have a Planetar ready to lend a hand, and bust out an Improved Alacrity to cast every single spell you need to win a combat within the space of a single round, whenever you need it.

    I can't be bothered to break down the shenanigans available to your average Ranger/Cleric, but suffice to say they have just as many points available at 18, their top level spells by 14, and by the time they get up to level 23 they have 193 spell points to spread between their Druid/Cleric spells. Since Wondrous Recall gives back 10 spell points and costs 6, even without wisdom clerics have endless spells as of level 11, and since Nature's Beauty is a permanent blind with no save (and an AOE death spell with its save part), Greater Restoration is an AOE Heal spell with bonuses, and you basically don't even need Quest spells. May as well roll a Mage/Cleric at this point.

    So yeah, you've broke the game. Hard.

  • ZippydsmleeZippydsmlee Member Posts: 19
    OMG I turned it into FALLOUT 3 *cries* LOL

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