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Best paladin build for BGEE?

What kit and weapons would people with experience consider best? I like cavalier, just don't know how many "demonic, draconic" creatures exist, and think I'd go 1 handed sword and shield (since no bow is allowed)

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Comments

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    edited November 2012
    Well~ Since we don't know what changes in BG:EE we can only give advice based on the original games.

    There are quite a number of dragons and demons in the series as a whole, but only a few demons in the first game and no dragons.

    I would recommend you go Axes and Shields since you can use throwing axes. Then pick up 2h Swords and 2h Weapon Style over the course of the game to set up for the holy sword in BG2.

    My cavalier, at the end of BG1 (using Tutu) had ** in: Axes, Sword and Shield Style, 2h Swords, 2h Style. I'm planning to pickup longswords in BG2 to use the Dragonslayer Sword til I get the holy 2h sword.

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    edited November 2012
    Go with Inquisitor, True Sight and Double Power Dispel will crush any mage encounter. As for weapons, I would go for 2 pips in long sword and 2 pips in sword & shield, arrows are quite powerful in BG1 so having the extra protection against them is very useful, especially on your tank. And you will still have enough pips left to max 2 handed weapon and style, by the time u get Carsomyr in BG2.

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    edited November 2012
    Are there really nasty mage encounters in BG1 ?

    I think it's no ;-)


    On the other hand, immunity to fear and/or hold person will be a must thoughout the game.



    and most of all : immunity to poison !



    *Zen*
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,158
    Go with Undead Hunter. The bonus to hit and damage undead is great in BG1 and even better in BG2, plus he's immune to hold.

    chickenhed
  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    edited November 2012
    There are some very nasty ones if u have SCS installed, the Firewine Bridge Ogre-Mage come to mind. But with True Sight he becomes much easier. Also don't forget, True Sight helps a lot even against thieves who keep going invis/backstab. Again, with SCS, they abuse this feature a lot.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    All the paladin kits are better than the basic paladin. Pick whichever you like, all of them have a lot going for them.

    elminster
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    I recommend dual wielding, especially in BG2. Carsomyr is a good weapon, but you will deal more damage dual wielding as with Belm/Kundane in the off-hand you will have 2 more attacks than a 2h weapon wielder and 4 more attacks under Improved Haste.

    Using a shield is fine in BG1 if you want to tank, but putting points in the style is a waste. I'd do something like 2* long swords and 2* dual wielding at character creation as Varscona is easy to obtain early, then 2* in whatever else floats your boat later on.

    The Cavalier's bonuses against demons and dragons are fairly useless in BG1 but his other abilities, particularly being immune to poison and fear and being able to remove fear are very useful. I like the Undead Hunter who's immunity to hold is great in BG1 and immunity to level drain is awesome in BG2.

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    Yeah but from a roleplay perspective, dual wielding paladins just doesn't fit. And if you do want to dual wield, why not go for a fighter or ranger kit instead? 2 in long swords for Varscona and 2 in S&S style for BG1, then the next 4 points into 2-handed weapon and style, is the best path u can take imo.

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Remember that poisons are the most deadly effect that can quickly wipe your party at low level ...

    Therefore I would thay the Cavalier kit it the most appropiate one ...

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    edited November 2012
    In all fairness, everything is easy to deal with in unmodded Vanila. But if you do want to install difficulty enhancing mods, i think Inquisitor is by far the best choice to win the hardest encounters.

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Cavalier has a lot going for it: (No one has been defending it so I will =p)

    1) Resist Fire- Fire is a very common damage type. Starting with 20 resist makes it that much easier to get complete immunity. Resist acid is just bonus gravy.

    2) Immunity to Fear/Remove Fear: Fear is a VERY common attack by enemy mages and can seriously wreck your party.

    3) Immunity to Charm: Charm Effects don't come up as often, but your main tank switching sides can ruin your day. Makes dealign with Sirines a lot easier.

    4) Immunity to Poison: Poison is a NASTY effect. Having a tank that is immune makes dealing with spiders sooo much easier. And there are a lot of spiders. But even better it makes you immune to the Cloudkill spell! Combine a Cavalier with the Spider's Bane sword for Free Action and Poison Immunity. Then throw Web, Entangle, and Cloudkill on your enemies. Your paladin will be strolling around hitting guys. "I don't see what the big deal is." *Paladin Chunks a badguy that's webbed and cloudkilled*

    The Downside, can't use ranged weapons, doesn't apply to throwing axes or daggers. So grab axes and you can still help at range.

    Frek
  • DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120

    Yeah but from a roleplay perspective, dual wielding paladins just doesn't fit. And if you do want to dual wield, why not go for a fighter or ranger kit instead? 2 in long swords for Varscona and 2 in S&S style for BG1, then the next 4 points into 2-handed weapon and style, is the best path u can take imo.

    Why can't a Paladin dual-wield? Its like saying that a dwarf has to put their proficiency points into hammers and axes.

    Everybody wants to confine classes and races into neat little boxes, dammit. Next time I play Paladin, I'm playing with dual-wielded daggers and crossbows!

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    CaptRory said:

    Cavalier has a lot going for it: (No one has been defending it so I will =p)

    1) Resist Fire- Fire is a very common damage type. Starting with 20 resist makes it that much easier to get complete immunity. Resist acid is just bonus gravy.

    2) Immunity to Fear/Remove Fear: Fear is a VERY common attack by enemy mages and can seriously wreck your party.

    3) Immunity to Charm: Charm Effects don't come up as often, but your main tank switching sides can ruin your day. Makes dealign with Sirines a lot easier.

    4) Immunity to Poison: Poison is a NASTY effect. Having a tank that is immune makes dealing with spiders sooo much easier. And there are a lot of spiders. But even better it makes you immune to the Cloudkill spell! Combine a Cavalier with the Spider's Bane sword for Free Action and Poison Immunity. Then throw Web, Entangle, and Cloudkill on your enemies. Your paladin will be strolling around hitting guys. "I don't see what the big deal is." *Paladin Chunks a badguy that's webbed and cloudkilled*

    The Downside, can't use ranged weapons, doesn't apply to throwing axes or daggers. So grab axes and you can still help at range.

    1. Minor bonus, won't impact the game.

    2. Oh, great bonus! A level 1 priest spell gives immunity to the whole party.

    3. This one is a little bit nastier, but Inquisitor also has it.

    4. Antidotes, cheap and effective.

    Not to mention there are zero dragons in Vanilla, and very few demons.

    Now let's look at what the Cavalier doesn't have.

    True Sight. Doesn't do much, except be a lvl 5 spell that the inquisitor gets straight from level 1, is insta-cast, and renders every mage's and thief's invisibility options USELESS, thereby easily killed.

    Dispel Magic, also insta cast, oh and it's double the effect of a normal one. So with these 2 spells, all of an enemy mage's defenses are rendered obsolete.

    I rest my case.

    Fenghoang
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I don't like dual wielding paladins mostly because of the 2h holy sword. If I'm using a 2h sword and need to switch, I'm more likely to want to switch to a more defensive posture. Not from using a two handed sword to use a sword in each hand. But if you wanna dual wield daggers, go for it. No one is stopping you.

  • AltairAltair Member Posts: 127
    If you want to be Paladin, then Cavalier for sure, dual wielding the scimitars of Drizzt in BG1, and later Katana (Celestial Fury) + Belm for the additional attack. But personally I will go for Berserker (with the same weapons), as Grand Mastery will give me +3/+6 and an additional half-attack (not to mention the rage bonuses). Race: Half-Orc of course.

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727

    Personally I'm a big fan of the Hammerdin, which is a Paladin that specializes in Blessed Hammer, Holy Shield, Blessed Aim, Concentration, and Vigor.

    Hammerding SUCKS! Lightning Javazon FTW!


    Right, back on topic... keep in mind that immunity to hold does NOT protect against stuns of Ghoul and Ghasts or Hold by Web. That's what Free Action is for :)

    Fenghoang
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803


    CaptRory said:

    Cavalier has a lot going for it: (No one has been defending it so I will =p)

    1) Resist Fire- Fire is a very common damage type. Starting with 20 resist makes it that much easier to get complete immunity. Resist acid is just bonus gravy.

    2) Immunity to Fear/Remove Fear: Fear is a VERY common attack by enemy mages and can seriously wreck your party.

    3) Immunity to Charm: Charm Effects don't come up as often, but your main tank switching sides can ruin your day. Makes dealign with Sirines a lot easier.

    4) Immunity to Poison: Poison is a NASTY effect. Having a tank that is immune makes dealing with spiders sooo much easier. And there are a lot of spiders. But even better it makes you immune to the Cloudkill spell! Combine a Cavalier with the Spider's Bane sword for Free Action and Poison Immunity. Then throw Web, Entangle, and Cloudkill on your enemies. Your paladin will be strolling around hitting guys. "I don't see what the big deal is." *Paladin Chunks a badguy that's webbed and cloudkilled*

    The Downside, can't use ranged weapons, doesn't apply to throwing axes or daggers. So grab axes and you can still help at range.

    1. Minor bonus, won't impact the game.

    2. Oh, great bonus! A level 1 priest spell gives immunity to the whole party.

    3. This one is a little bit nastier, but Inquisitor also has it.

    4. Antidotes, cheap and effective.

    Not to mention there are zero dragons in Vanilla, and very few demons.

    Now let's look at what the Cavalier doesn't have.

    True Sight. Doesn't do much, except be a lvl 5 spell that the inquisitor gets straight from level 1, is insta-cast, and renders every mage's and thief's invisibility options USELESS, thereby easily killed.

    Dispel Magic, also insta cast, oh and it's double the effect of a normal one. So with these 2 spells, all of an enemy mage's defenses are rendered obsolete.

    I rest my case.

    Then rest your case, because, except Davaeorn, mage are no big deal in Baldur's gate one.

    On the other side, there are many situations where the aformentioned bonus are VERY useful.

    Lay on hand also is a very good spell (especially at the beginning).
    You do not always stack up antidotes on your PC and you can be poisonned again.
    Resist acid sucks, I confess. resist fire is very nice in a few occasions.
    Immunity to fear is nice because you can get dispelled from your level one spell (and you do not alway the spell memorized in your book, or unable to rest).


    What will you dispel with your true sight : invisibility and mirror image... these spell are so OP. (in fact i'm joking).

    Remember that invisibility will fade after the first spell, and then you can plummer the mage with arrows. In BG2 they have iron skin and so on...


    In BG2, I agree with you, Inquisitor is a very nice kit, but in the first one, they are not really useful.

    I would even say that Undead hunter is more useful, since the player will be immune to hold.

  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    All three of the kits are good but if you're going to be playing through the first game only I'd say that the Cavalier and Inquisitor are the two best options. Which one you take is entirely up to you, I feel that both are good but the Cavalier slightly outshines the Inquisitor.

    Reasons why the Cavalier is good:

    1. The +3 bonus to Demonic and Draconic creatures doesn't seem like much, and truthfully you don't get as much bang for your buck with this feature in the first game, but you will gain this bonus for two of the hardest fights in the game. The Demonknight can be a fairly tricky fight, and a +3 to hit and damage will make it much easier, but most importantly you'll gain this bonus for the fight against Aec'letec. Aec'letec is the hardest fight in the game (he makes Sarevok look like a wuss) and he is demonic. As for Draconic creatures I believe (but am not entirely sure) that Wyverns are considered dragons. They are counted as Dragons in other iterations of DnD but I'm not 100% that they are in BG. The Greater Wyverns in Durlags Keep are nasty and this bonus will be very helpful (provided it works for Wyverns).

    2. Remove Fear 1/day per level is great. Since you are immune to fear and morale failure you'll always be able to use this if the rest of your party gets feared (a very common tactic especially in the earlier stages of the game). This will also allow your clerics and druids to take more useful 1st level spells, like Doom, Cure Light Wounds, and Entangle.

    3. Immunity to Charm is great, lots of monsters and wizards use charm. Being immune to it means that you wont turn around and chunk Imoen and it also means that you just made the enemy caster waste a turn trying to charm you.

    4. Immunity to fear and morale failure is also quite good. Like I stated earlier this synergizes very well with your remove fear ability.

    5. Immunity to poison is awesome for the first game. Poisons at low levels can be downright deadly when you have low hit points and limited access to antidote potions and remove poison spells. And some poisons can deal 4-5 damage per second which can still take a toll on your before you get a chance to drink a potion or have remove poison cast on you.

    6. 20% resistance to Fire and Acid is pretty helpful. While there aren't many acidic attacks in the game fire is easily one of the most common elemental types in the game. This combined with the 3rd level fire resistance priest spell will give you complete immunity to magical fire attacks which means you can send your Paladin into a swarm of enemies and drop fireball after fireball right on top of the group without harming yourself at all, a very lethal tactic in the low HP realm of BG1.

    7. The only disadvantage is that you cannot use missile weapons, but as was stated earlier you can work around this with throwing axes. There is no similar work around for any of the disadvantages of the other Paladin kits.

    Reasons why the Inquisitor is good:

    1. Dispel Magic is always useful and you'll get three castings of it with the 161000 XP cap. You have to be careful with this though since it will also remove the buffs from your friendly party members. However it is good for neutering enemy spellcasters, stripping them of their protections, and it is very useful in the Aec'letec fight as it gets rid of the "Dying" status effect thus preventing you from exploding and turning into a ghast.

    2. True Sight is handy, but really only comes into its own in the second game. The number of mages that will use improved invisibility or shadow door are very limited and the number of rogues that stealth and sneak attack are even fewer still. Still having 3 castings at max level will take some of the burden off your spellcasters freeing up some spell slots.

    3. Immunity to hold is really the best thing the Inquisitor has going for it. Lots of enemies use Hold Person or have abilities and attacks that cause the "Held" status effect. This is particularly good in the Aec'letec fight since he has an AoE Hold Person gaze attack which means you dont have to rely on potions of mirrored eyes. This is really the capstone ability of the Inquisitor and the best reason to take the class in my opinion.

    4. Immunity to charm can be pretty handy as I outlined earlier.

    Now, the Inquisitor has some cons though, unlike the neglegible con of the Cavalier.

    1. The loss of Turn Undead isn't huge, I can probably count the number of times I've used this ability on one hand, but losing it removes even those few times you might actually put it to use.

    2. Losing priest spells wont affect you until the second game. The Paladin doesn't get to a high enough level in BG1 to actually cast any priest spells.

    3. The biggest con is the loss of Lay on Hands. I find lay on hands to be quite useful as the "cast time" is nearly instantaneous. It can really save your life in a pinch, especially at later levels as it scales as you increase in levels.

    The only things the undead hunter has going for it in BG1 is the immunity to hold, the bonus vs. undead is negligable since there aren't many powerful undead in the first game. If you want Immunity to hold go for the Inquisitor but all things considered the Cavalier is probably the best choice for BG1.

  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    edited November 2012


    Everybody wants to confine classes and races into neat little boxes, dammit. Next time I play Paladin, I'm playing with dual-wielded daggers and crossbows!

    How would your character hold and load the crossbow and pull the trigger with the same hand? That sound logistically unfeasible, which is probably why you can't dual wield crossbows.

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Then let's sum' up all the mages battles ;-)

    ... oh wait it will be a spoiler ... but remember that only a few mages encounters are dangerous ...

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    As i said, i only play the game with SCS installed, i don't even recall what the fights look like without mods. And in SCS, even in BG1, some of the mage and thief encounters are brutal, unless u have the Inquisitor (i didn't personally, but i can realize his theoretical effectiveness in those situations).

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,158
    edited November 2012
    Well the Inquisitor's dispel magic ability is most useful if your character is at least half the level (preferably more) of the mage you are fighting. So for someone early on like Tarnesh it may not be successful, and (though I'm not sure on his level so its hard to say) Davaeorn may actually be more than twice your level when you fight him (it depends on how many side quests you do). Personally, though it might not be the most honourable way, there is always the option of stealing/buying scrolls of magic protect/potions of magic protection/scrolls of undead protection should the need arise. So any kit of Paladin will do just fine.

  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    May i propose... Blackguard? :P

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    Oh yeah, and i finished the game with the no-reloading challenge, poisons are not a big deal if u know what you're doing. The hardest part by far is when u return from Durlag's Tower and get ambushed. Tons of backstabs and sick strong mages + the Aec'letec that GoodSteve already mentioned.

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803

    As i said, i only play the game with SCS installed, i don't even recall what the fights look like without mods. And in SCS, even in BG1, some of the mage and thief encounters are brutal, unless u have the Inquisitor (i didn't personally, but i can realize his theoretical effectiveness in those situations).

    Oh yeah, and i finished the game with the no-reloading challenge, poisons are not a big deal if u know what you're doing. The hardest part by far is when u return from Durlag's Tower and get ambushed. Tons of backstabs and sick strong mages + the Aec'letec that GoodSteve already mentioned.

    That's good for you, but please check tha the OP wants to play BG : EE, not a modded game with a (good) hard mode ...

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    I did, my first comment on this thread was made to help him. After that, it turned into a Cavalier vs Inquisitor debate for some reason :P

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803

    I did, my first comment on this thread was made to help him. After that, it turned into a Cavalier vs Inquisitor debate for some reason :P

    Because mages are not a big deal in BG1 ;-)

    For a new player, Cavalier bring much more interesting bonus, than against specific ennemies that are not very dangeros and oftenly met.

    Then again, in BG2, this is another story.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,158
    Mornmagor said:

    May i propose... Blackguard? :P

    Darn straight. Evil Paladin time.

    Oxford_GuyGoodSteveMornmagor
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