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SCS is a *must* mod if you are familar with the game.

IntoTheDarknessIntoTheDarkness Member Posts: 118
http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/

SCS is an increased AI mod that achieves an alternate difficulty setting without cheating on players like by boosting enemy stats and giving them artificial scripts.

In vanilla BG1, it is possible to lure 1 enemy at a time even if enemies are standing right next to each other. BG:EE must do better than this since it uses BG2 engine, but the outdated AI are still exploitable and they behave really, really dumb if you know how to abuse their weaknesses.


a few examples of how SCS makes the game so much more exciting:

In vanilla game, Basilisks/Liches only target the closest enemy to petrify/imprison. You only need 1 immunity protection instead of 6. In SCS they don't *automatically* recognize an unprotected party member. They try attacking the closest first, and then move on to the next target when they realizes your party member is protected from their special attacks.

Immunity:Divination and Improved Invisibility used together was nigh-invincible against any AI. No spell casters without invisibility detection innate ability was ever able to do anything about this, and they just stood there while your character danced, wriggled his hips left and right, song a couple songs, and finally stabbed them in the back.

and there are many more exploits you could abuse with vanilla AI. So far, I haven't found any major exploits possible with SCS mod.




IMHO this is one of those mods that will help the game experience regardless what kind of a player you are, as long as you are familiar with BG battle mechanics. I hoped at least the 'better call for help' component was included in EE, but since it's not been included you might want to check it out when EE compatible version of SCS comes out.

This mod increases difficulty, that's true. But it does it in a way you don't feel cheated. In vanilla BG, your level 3 parties could kill level 16 mage Talantyre with ease - spell interruption. This mod only makes it so that enemies with high levels do have a fair power that they deserve. With a little exaggeration, it almost feels as though AI are being controlled by a human DM.

And if you find this mod difficult, you could always play SCS with normal or easy difficulty. The difficulty will be roughly same as vanilla, only with a smarter, cunning AI that will maintain the same HP, stats and Levels.




Post edited by IntoTheDarkness on
BugratMarricKirinaldoAlexDeLargeDiscoCatdarkkhaineBercon

Comments

  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    edited November 2012
    DavidW said:

    Just a quick notice to say: - there will be a version of SCS for BG:EE (ETA about a month)

  • RenulanRenulan Member Posts: 109
    edited November 2012
    Question is, are they going to update it for EE?

    EDIT: Must of posted at teh same time O.o :P

    Post edited by Renulan on
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @Renulan If you read DavidW's comment above your post, (quoted by @mch202), yes, it will be updated.

  • Greenman019Greenman019 Member Posts: 206
    I think they updated the AI in BG:EE, would like to see how that is before trying SCS (I'm very familiar with the game, maybe it'll be more challenging)
    Either way would be nice for someone who knows SCS to let us know how BG:EE stacks up on the AI front.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Greenman019

    The Black Pits will have better AI than the main campaign, but SCS' AI should be better than regular BGEE AI.

    Not sure how SCS compares to the Black Pits.

  • Greenman019Greenman019 Member Posts: 206
    Tanthalas said:

    @Greenman019

    The Black Pits will have better AI than the main campaign, but SCS' AI should be better than regular BGEE AI.

    Not sure how SCS compares to the Black Pits.

    Didn't you test?
    Has the AI in the campaign been improved at all?
    If of course you can disclose such info ^^

  • DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120
    edited November 2012
    It's going to take some getting used to, playing vanilla BG again.

    An example: in my most recent game of BG, I went back to Nashkel after having finished the mines and fought the assassin Nimbul. He had stoneskin, an anti-magic shield, mirror image, the works. He would cast Melf's Minute Meteors and make a point of attacking my lowest AC character's first, meaning the mages would go down real fast in his sight. It was a very tough and annoying fight that required me, at my low level, to run all over Nashkel until some of his magic defenses wore off...but it was fun.

    The last time I played vanilla BG, my Paladin chunked him on the first hit with a lucky natural 20 the moment he ended his speech about 'Why NIMBUL was sent to fight the likes of you, I have no idea!', which was kinda anti-climactic. Funny, though. Not something I would have ever seen with SCS.

  • NadroirNadroir Member Posts: 50
    I am starting to wonder how many people play with mods. I've never used a single mod before. I didn't realise they were that popular.

  • DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120
    Nadroir said:

    I am starting to wonder how many people play with mods. I've never used a single mod before. I didn't realise they were that popular.

    Anyone who hasn't used mods is missing out. There's a lot of sub-par stuff out there, of course, but the best of what's out there will make you never want to play BG without them again.

  • BugratBugrat Member Posts: 118
    Agree wholeheartedly with orignal post. SCS always forms the backbone of my mod installs, and I really look forward to the EE version. Thanks @DavidW!

    lelag200
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    Yep, SCS is essential for me too.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,282
    Some features are, but not all.

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    SCS is a really excellent mod, but I think it falls short of a *must* have mod (I dont think there are any must have mods).
    If you have played for so long that you are finding the game ridiculously easy, try playing with a party which *doesnt* consist of 6 dual kensai mages with 18 18 18 18 10 10 for all their stats

    BelgarathMTHelminster
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    @ajwz Well, what makes it so good imho is not that it makes the game insanely difficult, but rather that enemies behave in so much more satisfying a way. It just makes them fight considerably smarter, and you really feel the difference in the quality of the gameplay. I do, anyway.

    There are definitely ways to increase the difficulty via less than uber PCs and/or combinations of weaker characters. That is a great point.

    You can also do both, which is what I tend to do, lol.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,615
    I don't like SCS, but I understand its appeal. It gives you a whole bunch of new stuff to memorize about every encounter, so you can beat it. If you find the vanilla game boring because you already have it memorized, then SCS is probably for you.

    Or, if you are a masochist, and you love to reload over and over before you can beat the game, then SCS is definitely for you.

    "Must-have"? Absolutely not. It does nothing for roleplaying or immersion. It just tries, with pretty good success, to duplicate the experience of playing an MMO on a PVP server, by giving the AI and the enemies pretty much the same strategic abilities that you have, as well as the ability to take you by surprise. Prepare to be ganked, a lot, if that's your thing.

    There will be an intensified feeling of accomplishment if you learn how to beat it. But, it will only be a passing thing, because, you will eventually memorize all the souped-up encounter algorithms, just like you did with the vanilla ones. As with all things, knowledge is the ultimate power.

    I am reminded of Piers Anthony's "Xanth" series, and the Magician Humphrey. His one and only power was absolute omniscience of the past, present, and future. And by that, he was the most powerful, godlike character in the books.

    Kilivitz
  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    ajwz said:

    SCS is a really excellent mod, but I think it falls short of a *must* have mod (I dont think there are any must have mods).
    If you have played for so long that you are finding the game ridiculously easy, try playing with a party which *doesnt* consist of 6 dual kensai mages with 18 18 18 18 10 10 for all their stats

    So basically you're advocating self gimping of your own party (also, i don't think anyone in the history of the game ever played with 6 kensai/mages rofl) as a challenge, as opposed to actually fighting much smarter and stronger opponents. Following this train of thought, I think i will go bash my head with a rock in real life, so conversations with troglodytes will actually be more challenging and interesting to engage in.

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Self gimping of your own party and not playing with 18 for every relevent statistic are two ends of a rather broad spectrum

    BelgarathMTH
  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    Well your statement was a fallacy to begin with, seeing as (i'm guessing) over 90% of the player base actually uses only NPC's in their party, and not multiplayer character. And no NPC in this game has max stats in all his relevant categories, not even Sarevok.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    edited November 2012
    I'm sure @ajwz was speaking tongue-in-cheek in citing those literal stats. He can and probably will speak for himself, I know. But I took his point as being that many players use min-maxed munchkin-y stat-ed PCs... and what he might have added was using the most powerful classes, and the most powerful NPCs. Anyway, imho there's no question but that the game becomes more challenging when playing with less than super badass characters.

  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    I personally still have a problem with this alternate way of increasing difficulty. Let me give you a simple analogy. I you have an insanely difficult task to complete in real life, and are required to choose a team that you will work together with to achieve said task. Would you go for the people you know are most proficient and capable, each the best in their branch for the respective role, or would you pick some complete nitwits and braindeads to hinder your every progress? I think we all know the answer to that, assuming you're not a masochist.

    So, drawing a parallel to BG, why would you do otherwise in that realm? Because once you've decided the vanilla game is too easy, you want a greater challenge, but you also want to take things seriously, not make a mockery out of it by creating a party of Tiax, Quayle, a couple of bards etc... well, unless you're really bored and got nothing better to do with your life. But that's not the way i roll.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    I wouldn't call SCS a must-have either for players who feel the vanilla game is challenging. But I disagree with @belgarathmth, it does a lot for immersion. In fact, once you get used to it, it gets to be almost immersion-breaking to go without SCS as opponents (casters especially) seem to be acting so stupid it's almost suicidal. They stand and take hits when unprotected rather than backing away, they rarely vocalize when silenced, they prioritize casting semi-effective offensive spells rather than making sure their defenses are up, etc. In other words, they seem like target dummies rather than actual opponents. That does a lot to take immersion away, once you've had the experience of them playing well.

    AlexDeLargelunar
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,785
    This "a *must*" mod happens to not work with my version of the game. I'll hope that it will work with BG:EE soon, however.

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    edited November 2012
    Yeah, well... must have. I like challenge, true, but... too much for me. Why?
    It isn't compatible with the original version of BG.
    That's all for me. I am way too lazy to spend 6 hours figuring out the correct step by step for me to instal BGT or EasyTutu. Yeah, I know, it's actually simple... but there is a gosh darn reason (among many others) I'll play BGEE and that is *NEVER* again have to worry about spending 250 hours figuring mods out. Reading all the compatibility issues and what not.

    So yeah, must have... no thanks!

    elminsterBelgarathMTH
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    edited November 2012

    I personally still have a problem with this alternate way of increasing difficulty. Let me give you a simple analogy. I you have an insanely difficult task to complete in real life, and are required to choose a team that you will work together with to achieve said task. Would you go for the people you know are most proficient and capable, each the best in their branch for the respective role, or would you pick some complete nitwits and braindeads to hinder your every progress? I think we all know the answer to that, assuming you're not a masochist.

    So, drawing a parallel to BG, why would you do otherwise in that realm? Because once you've decided the vanilla game is too easy, you want a greater challenge, but you also want to take things seriously, not make a mockery out of it by creating a party of Tiax, Quayle, a couple of bards etc... well, unless you're really bored and got nothing better to do with your life. But that's not the way i roll.

    I have actually played some parties not too terribly far from this, lol. Not that I would want to do it all the time. But it actually gave me fun value in a couple of ways. First is that playing with the less powerful NPCs is simply a departure from the garden variety line-up. Granted there aren't many banters in BG1. But just having a party comprised of unusual characters makes the game feel much different (they still express personalities, and they have their various skills in combat). Getting the most out of any character, or any combination of them, especially in combat is, for me, a lot of fun! The second thing adding fun depends on whether I have some sort of guiding concept in mind for the party, i.e., a particular reason for bringing that particular constellation of characters together.

    It really isn't that hard to beat the vanilla game--or even a game with SCS installed, for that matter--with the weakest characters or classes and kits. After 14 years, for me it's about about variety and creativity in the game's replayability.

    ***

    Also a more general observation re: language like "must-have" or "essential": I think it should be understood that what is implied there is "for me" or "according to my personal taste." I think we all know by now that there's a great diversity to playstyles and preference for this game. I'll never presume to tell another what he or she ought to enjoy. I can only say what I like and why.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    Of course, everything i just that is obviously my opinion and the way i see things. To each his own i guess.

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