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Thief 6/Cleric X

I've been thinking about the following dual class option: Thief (or more likely Swashbuckler) 6/Cleric X. It gives you 100 in Open Locks and Find Trap while still giving you all the Cleric skills you could ever need (should reach the same level as a pure Cleric by the end). It basically covers all the "necessary" utility for the party meaning that you can be much more free in what NPCs you decide to hang around with. Does this seem like a good idea? Am I missing anything that makes this a terrible (or an even better) choice?

Comments

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    The downside is you'll be missing your thief skills until Cleric surpasses Thief. So you'll need to bring a thief in to do thief things until you get your skills back. But this would work great with a Swashbuckler/Cleric in the long view.

    Not having Backstab means it doesn't matter what weapon skills you focus on. And it means that not putting points into hide and sneak doesn't mean anything since you won't be sneaking in for a backstab. AND it's the next best thing to dual classing from Fighter to Cleric. It's like having your cake, eating it too, AND having it with Ice Cream.

    You'll just need to bring in a thief to cover until you hit Cleric 7.
  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262
    While I agree this is a great utility PC, it's worth noting that there are TONS of thief companions in the first BG (alas not so BG2), as well as non-thief companions that can be dualled into thieves with or without tomes of dexterity. Chances are good that no matter how you decide to build your final group, you'll have least one thief or potential thief in there.

    Since you say you want a character that gives you the most flexibility in party choice, not that you particularly love the thief/cleric, I have another suggestion:

    Play a mage - or xx/mage dual-class. The mage NPC options are VERY limiting, with two of the mages having required partners, tying up an extra slot in your group. Of the two pure mages that are left, one can't cast evocation spells, and the other is evil and will leave if your rep gets too high. Three of the four full mages will fight with at least one other NPC, further restricting your party choices. Quayle can be a lot of fun, but you get him so late that his HP will always lag behind, and his low wisdom means no bonus spells at all. He'll also never get the most powerful mage spells. Neera at this point is still a wild card (pun intended).

    I always feel that my parties are defined by the mage NPC I decide to use. Playing as a mage allows me to build the party I want.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Imoen is one of the best mages, and she starts as a thief. She's the first NPC you run into that will join up. You can dual class her to a mage almost immediately if you don't need her for thievery.
  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262
    Based on the original post that he's making a utility character so that he can use whatever NPCs he would like, Imoen is probably not going to be high on the list. She's boring, boring, boring, even if she has great stats. If he's going to use Imoen as a thief->mage and keep her for the whole game, then he really doesn't need to worry about making a utility character as Imoen will be that for him.

    Just my two cents. I still think the NPC selection is most limited when it comes to mages.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    You can actually go all the way up to thief 7 before dual-classing to cleric. Just means you won't regain your thief skills til really late unless you go XP hunting.
  • csuzwcsuzw Member Posts: 48
    I must admit I have an eye on BG2 with this build knowing the relative lack of thieves there. Covering the thief skills while levelling cleric (or whatever) shouldn't be a problem in BG.

    Regarding the mage/cleric decision, I do prefer playing a mage but it always seems like I have a bigger problem with clerics than them and I'll almost certainly be taking Neera because she's new and most likely to fit alignment-wise. Also the lack of kit/specialisation seems much less of a drawback for clerics than mages although that's a very minor point. Part of my problem with clerics is my irrationally deep fear of level drain which means I'm not comfortable with letting a druid cover that role or am I mistaken and they do get the level drain removal/protection spells? Even if you include druids I think there are still somewhat surprisingly more mage options and although overall they clerics are probably easier to handle they still have their fair share of problem cases.

    I know I could go to 7 and still make up the cleric class but I don't see it really adding anything other than a longer wait to get thief skills back. 25 extra points isn't going to make much difference to a skill when you've spent all the rest of your points maxing pick lock and find trap and I'm not sure you get anything else by waiting a level.

    I'll probably agonise over this until the game is released and then play something completely different like fighter/druid!
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    @csuzw: Druids do not get restoration to restore lost levels, but still have access to Negative Plane Protection to protect against it in the first place. You can always utilize Restoration scrolls with a druid, as well.
  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262
    I guess between Jaheira, Branwen, and Yeslick I always felt that my cleric slot was easy to fill, while I always felt trapped by unsatisfying mage choices (hopefully Neera will fix this). In BG2 I pretty much always use Anomen or Viconia and/or Aerie, so again, I've always felt my cleric spells were plentiful.

    I've always felt BG1 was light on solid mages, and BG2 of course is light on solid thieves. Thief->Mage or multi is a great solution. :)
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    @csuzw: 100% agreed on the cleric part, basically there was Yeslick as a kick-ass multiclass healer/meatshield, and... erm... uhm... pretty much no one else. the fact that BGEE added 3 characters and none of them are clerics make me an exceptionally saaad panda.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Branwen and Viconia are pretty kickarse clerics. I love taking Viconia with a Paladin PC.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    CaptRory said:

    Branwen and Viconia are pretty kickarse clerics. I love taking Viconia with a Paladin PC.

    Viconia had 15 wisdom, lower than Yeslick (even though the latter was a multiclass cleric), but at least she had other redeeming qualities. Branwen was okay-ish, but still: 16 wis. the other two... let's not go there.
    every other class had members running around with godlike stats, only the poor clerics were left out. :C
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    At least you can get Branwen and Viconia at the start of the game. Yeslick doesn't appear til you're a good way through.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    edited November 2012
    that, on the hand, is a perfectly valid point.
    also, I forgot to add that even though clerics don't get nearly enough loving, there are 3 wisdom increasing books, in contrast to only 1 for every other stat.
    Post edited by DinsdalePiranha on
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I fed them all to Viconia in my Paladin Game, then edited her stats in Shadowkeeper to reflect the extra +3. =3
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