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Made me spill Pepsi everywhere... (spoiler for those who haven't finished Chapter 4 BG2)

colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
edited December 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)


Compliments to Vilkacis over at Spellhold Studios

Comments

  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    Hurh?
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    edited December 2012
    I think he means Imoen.

    Frankly, I kind of have to agree. Out of all possible love interests in BG2, this was the only one I actually felt could work, and instead they said she was his sister.

    Of course, there are mods to fix this, but those tend to be... creepy as hell.
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    Not if you're chaotic evil Chow ;) Or should that be Chaotic Alabamian?
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Well, yes. But Imoen does have a considerable headstart over any other romantic option, being the childhood friend of the player and having a pretty good chemistry with him in most of their dialogues (or at least the possibility for such, depending on what options you choose).

    The only thing working against her is the Westermarck Effect.
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    But she is not really your sister. There're many Baal spawns which are giants and half dragons. They are not your brothers. If your character is an half elf its because he is half human half elf, not half Baal half elf. You only share the same essence with them. I can't see a reason why CHARNAME can't be with Imoen.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Bhaal is still their shared father, even if the race is fully determined by the mom. And if anything, divine heritage would be stronger than a mortal one, so I'd say if anything, it'd work as even worse.

    Even if it didn't, it'd still be incredibly icky for both.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    I'm no expert on the question of genetics regarding either polymorph or flat out complete deity powered racial changes (frankly anyone who was an expert on those two topics should probably be walked away from slowly and carefully), but it's worth noting that deity siblings get together literally all the time n mythology, incest on a deific scale is more common than normative relationships.

    So go forth quasi-incestuous Imoen/CHARNAME lovers! Go forth and make some Creation Myths!
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    Like what @Chow says. Shared father, can't get round that. You can argue genetics or whatever you like, but they have the same dad. Plus the story pretty plainly states she's your sister numerous times. You can ignore it all you like, but that's the truth.

    Though I can't say I wasn't surprised/disappointed myself when I first came across that revelation. I did expect her to be a possible love interest until that moment. Still, it is what is now and nothing is going to change the story now.
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    Sister my ass, i still like her :p

    I'm Charname so i get to do what i want yohohoho \o/
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    I don't think that he is literally their father, like in physicly impregnenting each and evry Bhaal spawn mother. I think that when he died his essence entered the babies and changed them or something like that. There's an half dragon Bhaal spawn in ToB, and he is not half god half dragon, he is half human half dragon. Unless it's like Jesus when the mother became pregnant from the spirit of god or something.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Necroblivion said:

    I don't think that he is literally their father, like in physicly impregnenting each and evry Bhaal spawn mother. I think that when he died his essence entered the babies and changed them or something like that. There's an half dragon Bhaal spawn in ToB, and he is not half god half dragon, he is half human half dragon. Unless it's like Jesus when the mother became pregnant from the spirit of god or something.

    No, it has been specifically stated that he created the Bhaalspawn in the traditional manner. He got around a lot.
  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    Chow said:

    Necroblivion said:

    I don't think that he is literally their father, like in physicly impregnenting each and evry Bhaal spawn mother. I think that when he died his essence entered the babies and changed them or something like that. There's an half dragon Bhaal spawn in ToB, and he is not half god half dragon, he is half human half dragon. Unless it's like Jesus when the mother became pregnant from the spirit of god or something.

    No, it has been specifically stated that he created the Bhaalspawn in the traditional manner. He got around a lot.
    Kinda makes that kobold Bhaalspawn they mention in TOB a little more creepy now doesn't it?
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    kilroy_was_here said:


    Kinda makes that kobold Bhaalspawn they mention in TOB a little more creepy now doesn't it?

    At least he didn't try to seduce a Mustard Jelly. Or at least I don't think he did...
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    edited December 2012
    Can you give a link? I kinda had the impression that they are all the same age (because everything happens in the same time). I realized that when he died his essence entered each baby at the same time and the story begins when they are all reached the age they discover their powers.

    If he was "screwing around" all the time then you'd have Bhaalspawns all across the history and not on the exact same time. I might be wrong though...
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    edited December 2012
    kilroy_was_here said:

    Kinda makes that kobold Bhaalspawn they mention in TOB a little more creepy now doesn't it?

    Mordeus said:

    At least he didn't try to seduce a Mustard Jelly. Or at least I don't think he did...

    The ToB expansion had a bunch of woodland critter Bhaalspawn. That should give you an idea of just how discriminating the old man was, or wasn't.
    Necroblivion said:

    Can you give a link? I kinda had the impression that they are all the same age (because everything happens in the same time).

    They... really aren't. Look at Abazigal, who is a dragon, a long-living and slowly-maturing species, old enough to have a similarly fully-grown son. Even being a century or two old would make him the equivalent of a very young human father. Certainly he cannot be like twenty years old the protagonist is.
    Necroblivion said:

    I realized that when he died his essence entered each baby at the same time and the story begins when they are all reached the age they discover their powers.

    When has any of the games ever stated anything of this sort?
    Necroblivion said:

    If he was "screwing around" all the time then you'd have Bhaalspawns all across the history and not on the exact same time. I might be wrong though...

    Abazigal at least has been around for a while. It seems clear that Bhaal has been planning for this for a very long time, but didn't bother screwing around with humans or the sort back at that point of time, because they wouldn't live long enough to be present at the time of ToB anyway, the time he needs them.
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    The games pretty clearly state Bhaal walked the lands in the 'time of troubles' and sired mortal progeny.
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    The game doesn't state it. But, they are kinda weak for children of a god. And when you kill one then the rest of the essence is gathered. So its kinda clear that his essence got split among them and its trying to unite with itself by driving the spawns to murder eachother.

    Also Abazigal is an half dragon.

    You might be right about the ages though, and about the rest also. Its just make more sense to me.. I don't know..
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    RedGuard said:

    The games pretty clearly state Bhaal walked the lands in the 'time of troubles' and sired mortal progeny.

    The Time of Troubles is at 1358 DR, Abazigal died by CHARNAME at 1369. During the Time of Troubles is when Cyric killed Bhaal.

  • Loki330Loki330 Member Posts: 15
    Oh I remember this age debate on the old Black Isle forums. the tl;dr from there was "Massive plothole, please ignore."
    The best anyone could come up with was the essence magically aged the bhaalspawn to young adults. That doesn't really explain the chinchillas though...
    As for the essence, I believe it got returned to the Throne of Bhaal. CHARNAME 'just' has the most concentration/power in his essence than the other kiddies.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Necroblivion said:

    Also Abazigal is an half dragon.

    I'm almost completely certain he's a full dragon.
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    Chow said:

    Necroblivion said:

    Also Abazigal is an half dragon.

    I'm almost completely certain he's a full dragon.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhaalspawn

    During the fight he changes to a blue dragon form, though.

  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    edited December 2012
    Necroblivion said:

    RedGuard said:

    The games pretty clearly state Bhaal walked the lands in the 'time of troubles' and sired mortal progeny.

    The Time of Troubles is at 1358 DR, Abazigal died by CHARNAME at 1369. During the Time of Troubles is when Cyric killed Bhaal.

    I'm just going by what the BG2 intro says. Also, it seems pretty clear on the status of Bhaal made flesh walking the lands and having mortal offspring. Plus it states clearly that Sarevok is your brother.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq9N9ddsKg8
  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265
    edited December 2012
    Luckily for me, I always kinda saw Imoen as my sister. Too bad I never really liked any of the love interests that were available (though, I suppose female CHARNAME has it a lot worse). Well, I like Jaheira, but it's just too soon after... the incident in Irenicus' dungeon.
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    Yes, I understand that they are all brothers and sisters because Bhaal is their father. He just made them before the Time of Troubles or they will all be 11 years old :D
  • lDanielHolmlDanielHolm Member Posts: 225
    RedGuard said:

    Necroblivion said:

    RedGuard said:

    The games pretty clearly state Bhaal walked the lands in the 'time of troubles' and sired mortal progeny.

    The Time of Troubles is at 1358 DR, Abazigal died by CHARNAME at 1369. During the Time of Troubles is when Cyric killed Bhaal.

    I'm just going by what the BG2 intro says. Also, it seems pretty clear on the status of Bhaal made flesh walking the lands and having mortal offspring. Plus it states clearly that Sarevok is your brother.
    "One such deity foresaw his own death, and walked the land before the cataclysm. He left a score of mortal offspring intended to be the fuel for his rebirth. The god was Bhaal, Lord of Murder..."

    Abazigal is called a half-dragon, but half-dragons cannot ordinarily take full dragon form. Most likely they simply meant he was a Bhaalspawn, and thought that meant he had to be "half-"dragon, for some odd reason.
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    @lDanielHolm lol, I should clean my ears out.
  • LuthoreLuthore Member Posts: 43
    Based on the fact that Bhaal is stated to have walked the earth before the time of troubles. I feel that the series of events went something like this:

    Bhaal walks the earth before the time of troubles
    Creates scores of mortal progeny
    Though they are bhaalspawn, they aren't "activated", they are merely shells to hold his essence
    Bhaal dies in the time of troubles
    Bhaalspawn activate with a surging/distribution of the essences.

    I feel this is in keeping with Aluando's prophecy that in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. They aren't "really" bhaalspawn while bhaal is alive. They won't develop thier powers because they lack his godly essence. What they are is shells or receptacles that are intended to hold and capture it in the event of his death. When he dies, the bhaalspawn come into full possession of their birthrights. so even though the time of troubles was 1358 DR and Abazigal died by CHARNAME at 1369, i see it as still possible to have bhaalspawn with many different "ages". It would all depend on when bhaal got it on with some mortal in the years prior to the time of troubles.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    @Luthore: A fine theory, but it all depends on when Imoen got her utterly irresistible Bhaalspawn-induced cookie-thirst. It could very well have been before 1358, and if it was, your theory would be moot. If it was after that, though, then I guess you might be on to something.
  • LuthoreLuthore Member Posts: 43
    Well I wouldn't know where to find that information in a canonical sense haha
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