Despite Inq or Cav in BG1 - a lot of mages just initialize their dialog and usually with no protections casted. If you know there will be a fight you just place your party right, those guys are usually one-hit for nearly any class....else you just abuse the stupid line of sight stuff, ie Icetemple...
It's 'slightly' different in BG2 with lots of harder enemies and maybe even modded with even harder caster The instant-twice the lvl dispel is a bitch!
Then again, dispel can be sometimes tricky to use and often a well-placed-Vecna-casted remove magic is better. It's just a matter of personal preference I guess; I'd just stick to Keldorn if I want a Paladin in my party or even roll a Undead Hunter. I do hate level drain! Everything else can just be buffed with usually long-term stuff ....
Cavalier will do it too, since he's immune to dire charm ;-)
Again, true, but Sirines cast improved invisibility (and before you find them, they'll hurt you bad with their arrows - you may be immune to poison, but 14 health isn't plenty for a couple of arrows )
Again, true, but Sirines cast improved invisibility (and before you find them, they'll hurt you bad with their arrows - you may be immune to poison, but 14 health isn't plenty for a couple of arrows )
They do not cast arrows at close range
And I doubt that even at level 1 you come in this area with nothing but your sword (at least you have bought a great shield and a plate armor/ the armor after the chain mail.
Despite Inq or Cav in BG1 - a lot of mages just initialize their dialog and usually with no protections casted. If you know there will be a fight you just place your party right, those guys are usually one-hit for nearly any class....else you just abuse the stupid line of sight stuff, ie Icetemple...
It's 'slightly' different in BG2 with lots of harder enemies and maybe even modded with even harder caster The instant-twice the lvl dispel is a bitch!
Then again, dispel can be sometimes tricky to use and often a well-placed-Vecna-casted remove magic is better. It's just a matter of personal preference I guess; I'd just stick to Keldorn if I want a Paladin in my party or even roll a Undead Hunter. I do hate level drain! Everything else can just be buffed with usually long-term stuff ....
That's why I said "BG1".
BG2 is a completely different subject and there are better choices to make (starting from weapons proficiencies to the paladin kit used).
EDIT : There are arrows of dispel in this game. And they are great
I don't really see the issue here. It's a single-player game, so balancing class power isn't a major goal, and there are plenty of kits or whole classes that are either worthless or overpowered in BG1. For example, Assassins are basically just thieves who level up their skills much more slowly. Meanwhile, a Fighter/Mage can now Find Familiar at level 1 which means that for chapter 1 they've got by far the highest HP, plus essentially an extra party member. Monks clearly don't justify their downsides until into BG2, so having one around in BG1 would suck.
I feel like it would be too much to ask to re-balance all the kits to make them scale appropriately in BG1. Many of them were designed specifically with BG2 in mind, and messing with them simply for the sake of getting them to work in BG1 seems both daunting and pointless.
Yeah I know That's what my first paragraph was for *whistle* I started myself playing BGEE with a Cavalier and you could call it nearly a cheat, as you counter exactly those debuffs, which are most common and extremely annoying = poison (wyvern!! / arrows - to the lesser Ettins, spider), fear, charm. Can even remove fear (or buff) for an hour, so more lvl 1 divine spells.
Though switched to Zerker, with the intention to dual him to a cleric in BG2 and at least I got an EPIC win-button as well, which makes me immune :P
I don't think the inquisitor is worthless, but rather exceptional compared to any kit but the cavalier.
Inquisitors are not only immune to charm and hold (the two main spells enemy mages use to disable your party) they can also dispel these same negative status ailments from other party members using their dispel magic power.
Dispel magic is also a tremendous offense ability. It can be used to dispel any protective buff a mage has enabled. Combined with true sight, it will turn even the most pre-buffed mage into an easy target. I'll definitely give you that it's waaaaaay deadlier in BG2, when it can disable stoneskin and other buffs.
True sight can reveal any invisible opponent (Ashikuru/enemy Mage/Sirene/Durlag Doppelganger).
Further, inquisitors have no real significant disadvantage in BG1. Sure, they lose lay on hands. But in BG1, that's weak. Yes, they also lose priest spells...but you don't gain access to those in BG1 either. There are no real diseases in BG1 to my knowledge, so the loss of cure disease is irrelevant. Turn Undead is arguably a small penalty, but a paladin's turn undead ability sucks for most of BG1 anyway (as it lags by 2 levels).
The inquisitor shines in the Sword Coast Stratagem type mods where the casters actually pre-cast buffs (as they should) to make the game a slight challenge. Especially in BG2 if the game plays properly (read, with SCS2 installed) enemy casters are an actual challenge and that speed factor 0 True Sight and double power dispel are the most powerful thing until Carsomyr (and boy do those help in getting said Carsomyr). I'm not sure about BG1:EE since I have not had time to play it but again its going to come down to how effective the spellcasters are - and in the vanilla game they are free xp.
-There are many ways to resist against fears such as Lv1 priest spell Remove Fear and Lv2 mage spell Resist Fear. It has long duration and affects all party members.
-I found immunity against hold much more useful. There is no spell protection against hold until lv4 priest spell Free Action. And if you use it, the target cant be haste.
-True Sight dispels invisibility and mirror images.
-Dispel Magic almost always guarantees success.
-Fire resistance is cheap. Lv2 and Lv3 priest spells resist fire, fire resistance scrolls, fire resistance potions.
-There are many ways to resist against fears such as Lv1 priest spell Remove Fear and Lv2 mage spell Resist Fear. It has long duration and affects all party members.
-I found immunity against hold much more useful. There is no spell protection against hold until lv4 priest spell Free Action. And if you use it, the target cant be haste.
-True Sight dispels invisibility and mirror images.
-Dispel Magic almost always guarantees success.
-Fire resistance is cheap. Lv2 and Lv3 priest spells resist fire, fire resistance scrolls, fire resistance potions.
Remember that Level 2 spells for mages are not accessible right out of the box in this game. It requires a bit of playing.
And though there are many potions in this game, they are expansive and not in a unlimited supply.
At the end of the game, gold is plentiful, but most of the encounters have been dealt with.
I don't know, I agree that the low amounts of magic definitely makes them less useful, but having True Sight at level 1 makes most mage encounters completely trivial.
OK, I've read through this and most/all the comments on mages both for Cav and for Inq are true so I won't get into MAGE topics. That said, Clerics and Druids also cast spells, buffs/de-buffs/Hold etc. These casters are also countered by dispel and Sanctuary(cleric invis I believe) is countered by true sight. Also, Inq can use Protection from evil just not turn undead/lay on hands/spells and personally I'd use a cleric to turn not a paladin anyways.
Gotta consider all angles before saying any class is useless. the only paladin "kit" I'd find useless is the default one due to all three others being so powerful.
OK, I've read through this and most/all the comments on mages both for Cav and for Inq are true so I won't get into MAGE topics. That said, Clerics and Druids also cast spells, buffs/de-buffs/Hold etc. These casters are also countered by dispel and Sanctuary(cleric invis I believe) is countered by true sight. Also, Inq can use Protection from evil just not turn undead/lay on hands/spells and personally I'd use a cleric to turn not a paladin anyways.
Gotta consider all angles before saying any class is useless. the only paladin "kit" I'd find useless is the default one due to all three others being so powerful.
You have a point with clerics but frankly there are no strong druids in the game. Certainly none that you need bother cast dispel magic on.
(slightly OT) I was thinking on using weidu's tactics mod in my next BG2 run, it's convenient to use my current guy and import it :P Have no experience with SCSII though, so is it more recommend to use this instead as both changes a lot of regularly encounter beside harder boss-fights, which I already know from ascension?
Not even in the bandit camp The only encounter early on, where it might be of use, is the crazy girl on the firewine bridge overland map. With the right dialog option you get something pretty nasty, which has by accident 2 pre-defined buffspell-trigger. I think my party was lvl3ish~ but thanks to the awesome AI, I just went some feet away as 'it' doesn't follow you, went out for a smoke, came back and all protections were gone.
Am currently raiding the iron throne, finished werewolf+icetemple; and all that's left is candlekeep thereafter and Durlags Tower and haven't really encountered a mage, who was worth a Induisitor's dispel or a dispel at all.
But were are talking about BGEE ^^ and not BG2 nor any tactic-mods...
OK, I've read through this and most/all the comments on mages both for Cav and for Inq are true so I won't get into MAGE topics. That said, Clerics and Druids also cast spells, buffs/de-buffs/Hold etc. These casters are also countered by dispel and Sanctuary(cleric invis I believe) is countered by true sight. Also, Inq can use Protection from evil just not turn undead/lay on hands/spells and personally I'd use a cleric to turn not a paladin anyways.
Gotta consider all angles before saying any class is useless. the only paladin "kit" I'd find useless is the default one due to all three others being so powerful.
You have a point with clerics but frankly there are no strong druids in the game. Certainly none that you need bother cast dispel magic on.
Very true, Druids are rare and really easy in BG1, but they are often forgoten about entirely and rewally shouldn't be cause insect swarm is a pain if it ever gets cast on you(more a BG2 worry). Still there are enough Clerics that can mess with your party if your not careful
Not even in the bandit camp The only encounter early on, where it might be of use, is the crazy girl on the firewine bridge overland map. With the right dialog option you get something pretty nasty, which has by accident 2 pre-defined buffspell-trigger. I think my party was lvl3ish~ but thanks to the awesome AI, I just went some feet away as 'it' doesn't follow you, went out for a smoke, came back and all protections were gone. .
Hmm, don't remember all stores..are there any prior to BG buyable? Then again, I did something for my own health.. Oh, maybe the cheat-mage in cloakwood mines...hmm nay, casted dispel, hold,sleep into the void and something must hit him as he wasn't doing anything. Seriously that guy can cast spells as if he was wearing the Vecna robe and had imp. Alacrity and ignored any walls.
Am currently raiding the iron throne, finished werewolf+icetemple; and all that's left is candlekeep thereafter and Durlags Tower and haven't really encountered a mage, who was worth a Induisitor's dispel or a dispel at all.
But were are talking about BGEE ^^ and not BG2 nor any tactic-mods...
That's why my post stats "in BG1" ;-)
In BG2, this is another story and, yes, I play the Inquisitor.
Hmm, don't remember all stores..are there any prior to BG buyable? Then again, I did something for my own health.. Oh, maybe the cheat-mage in cloakwood mines...hmm nay, casted dispel, hold,sleep into the void and something must hit him as he wasn't doing anything. Seriously that guy can cast spells as if he was wearing the Vecna robe and had imp. Alacrity and ignored any walls.
I believe he has a high level (so that he can cast many low level spell); But has not any spell memorized above level 4.
It is the first fight I had to use +1 arrows with his protect vs normal missiles. The other fight is in the arctic cave, where also ennemies have this spell around them.
I was thinking how awesome an Inquisitor was going to be for my no-relaod campaign until he and Imoen died trying to enter FAI... LOL.
Imoen was trying to disrupt the mage with her wand - the Pally took his mirror image down with true sight then both failed their saves to his fear spell and the three guards whacking at the mage couldn't land a single blow or even keep him occupied long enough for the fear to wear off before he took both the pally and Imoen down...game over - restarting from Candlekeep again ;-)
Am pretty sure he sunfire'd me roughly 0.001 sec after teleporting behind a wall...fireball looks different I guess (am more into disabling, CC...debuff - lesson learned in at least IWDx/hof ^^)
BTT: great topic btw :P lol .. am really looking forward to give Keldorn a try now or it was my intention anyway as all cleric/druids in BG2 just s*ck and viconia, despite having some good stats still only has 1ApR. So CG fighter->cleric specced to flail (of ages) and 21 wisdom might be nifty. Good only cause I want to try the beyond to law npc mod.
Comments
It's 'slightly' different in BG2 with lots of harder enemies and maybe even modded with even harder caster
The instant-twice the lvl dispel is a bitch!
Then again, dispel can be sometimes tricky to use and often a well-placed-Vecna-casted remove magic is better. It's just a matter of personal preference I guess; I'd just stick to Keldorn if I want a Paladin in my party or even roll a Undead Hunter. I do hate level drain! Everything else can just be buffed with usually long-term stuff ....
And I doubt that even at level 1 you come in this area with nothing but your sword (at least you have bought a great shield and a plate armor/ the armor after the chain mail.
BG2 is a completely different subject and there are better choices to make (starting from weapons proficiencies to the paladin kit used).
EDIT : There are arrows of dispel in this game. And they are great
I feel like it would be too much to ask to re-balance all the kits to make them scale appropriately in BG1. Many of them were designed specifically with BG2 in mind, and messing with them simply for the sake of getting them to work in BG1 seems both daunting and pointless.
I started myself playing BGEE with a Cavalier and you could call it nearly a cheat, as you counter exactly those debuffs, which are most common and extremely annoying = poison (wyvern!! / arrows - to the lesser Ettins, spider), fear, charm. Can even remove fear (or buff) for an hour, so more lvl 1 divine spells.
Though switched to Zerker, with the intention to dual him to a cleric in BG2 and at least I got an EPIC win-button as well, which makes me immune :P
Inquisitors are not only immune to charm and hold (the two main spells enemy mages use to disable your party) they can also dispel these same negative status ailments from other party members using their dispel magic power.
Dispel magic is also a tremendous offense ability. It can be used to dispel any protective buff a mage has enabled. Combined with true sight, it will turn even the most pre-buffed mage into an easy target. I'll definitely give you that it's waaaaaay deadlier in BG2, when it can disable stoneskin and other buffs.
True sight can reveal any invisible opponent (Ashikuru/enemy Mage/Sirene/Durlag Doppelganger).
Further, inquisitors have no real significant disadvantage in BG1. Sure, they lose lay on hands. But in BG1, that's weak. Yes, they also lose priest spells...but you don't gain access to those in BG1 either. There are no real diseases in BG1 to my knowledge, so the loss of cure disease is irrelevant. Turn Undead is arguably a small penalty, but a paladin's turn undead ability sucks for most of BG1 anyway (as it lags by 2 levels).
-I found immunity against hold much more useful. There is no spell protection against hold until lv4 priest spell Free Action. And if you use it, the target cant be haste.
-True Sight dispels invisibility and mirror images.
-Dispel Magic almost always guarantees success.
-Fire resistance is cheap. Lv2 and Lv3 priest spells resist fire, fire resistance scrolls, fire resistance potions.
Remember that Level 2 spells for mages are not accessible right out of the box in this game. It requires a bit of playing.
And though there are many potions in this game, they are expansive and not in a unlimited supply.
At the end of the game, gold is plentiful, but most of the encounters have been dealt with.
Gotta consider all angles before saying any class is useless. the only paladin "kit" I'd find useless is the default one due to all three others being so powerful.
Then, you'll fast learn why inquisitor is the almighty god of kits
(slightly OT)
I was thinking on using weidu's tactics mod in my next BG2 run, it's convenient to use my current guy and import it :P
Have no experience with SCSII though, so is it more recommend to use this instead as both changes a lot of regularly encounter beside harder boss-fights, which I already know from ascension?
[SCSII seems also bit more up-todate]
And for the topic: I plan to use Keldorn :P
But you don't need it before the bandit camp encounter ;-)
And only for one mage.
Tranzig is a joke.
Am currently raiding the iron throne, finished werewolf+icetemple; and all that's left is candlekeep thereafter and Durlags Tower and haven't really encountered a mage, who was worth a Induisitor's dispel or a dispel at all.
But were are talking about BGEE ^^ and not BG2 nor any tactic-mods...
An Ogre arrow can deal with the bastard ;-)
Oh, maybe the cheat-mage in cloakwood mines...hmm nay, casted dispel, hold,sleep into the void and something must hit him as he wasn't doing anything. Seriously that guy can cast spells as if he was wearing the Vecna robe and had imp. Alacrity and ignored any walls.
In BG2, this is another story and, yes, I play the Inquisitor.
It is the first fight I had to use +1 arrows with his protect vs normal missiles.
The other fight is in the arctic cave, where also ennemies have this spell around them.
Gatling gun Coran fires arrows very quick.
Imoen was trying to disrupt the mage with her wand - the Pally took his mirror image down with true sight then both failed their saves to his fear spell and the three guards whacking at the mage couldn't land a single blow or even keep him occupied long enough for the fear to wear off before he took both the pally and Imoen down...game over - restarting from Candlekeep again ;-)
BTT: great topic btw :P lol .. am really looking forward to give Keldorn a try now or it was my intention anyway as all cleric/druids in BG2 just s*ck and viconia, despite having some good stats still only has 1ApR. So CG fighter->cleric specced to flail (of ages) and 21 wisdom might be nifty. Good only cause I want to try the beyond to law npc mod.