Fighter: Proficient in 1 or several weapons?
BlackBrilliant
Member Posts: 11
In my previous run throughs of BG1 and BG2 with my fighter, I had him be both proficient in a slashing weapon (long swords) and blunt weapon (warhammer) so he could tackle foes that were resistant to one or the other. The other day I was talking to my friend and was surprised to learn that he didn't do that, he just stuck to one weapon type and upped the specialization all the way to grand mastery. My guess is he let other members of his party deal out other types of damage.
I'm curious, what do all you other folk do? Get up to grand mastery in one weapon, or spread out the specialization points to multiple weapons?
I'm curious, what do all you other folk do? Get up to grand mastery in one weapon, or spread out the specialization points to multiple weapons?
0
Comments
More Important, the benefit you get with 3 more points spent isnt worth it. IMHO I would go with 2 points in a weapon, 3 in dual weilding for the extra attack and Then focus on a second weapon. This game wasnt designed with Dual weilding originally and the fact you can do it now makes the chars that much more powerful.
EE uses a revised GM, so 5 pips will grant you an extra half-attack. If anything, the third pip in dual wielding isn't really worth it, as it grants a mere -2 thac0 bonus to your offhand, which is only ever a single attack per round.
The real problem is that you're not going to see characters who aren't humans being dual classed going all the way up to Grand Mastery very often.
All the Demi-Human races can multi-class, so if your PC is going to be a fighter of some type you're almost always better off splashing a spell caster or thief with your fighter for flexibility.
At that point, you can only get two ++ points in a weapon anyway. So having a few weapon types makes sense because you'll either want a blunt weapon for when you need it. Or you'll want to dual wield two high powered weapons later.
There's four kits for the fighter class total that can become Grand Masters.
01. Fighter
02. Berserker
03. Kensai
04. Wizard Slayer
The honest truth is the first three make great splash kits with other classes.
Some examples:
A Fighter who is a grandmaster in Short bow lets say who duals to Mage so he can essentially be artillery
Or a Berserker who duals to a Cleric so he can cast spells, Rage, and use armor. With +++++ in flails for when he gets to Flail of the Ages.
Or a Kensai who duals to Thief so he can back-stab with KAI!
Yes you can make any race into any class...but those combinations are far stronger than straight warriors with High Level Abilities in every case.
Wizard Slayer is the only class that just keeps slowly getting better as a straight fighter, so...eventually you could become a Grandmaster in two weapon classes and dual wield.
So...I think...if you want to take a kit that can go to Grand Mastery, you should think about dual classing from the start. It is kind of a meta gaming thing...but other-wise you're better off with a multi-class or another kit that only allows up to two ++ in a weapon if you want the flexibility of multiple weapon types.
Mathematically you're better off.
Also other kits in questions are obviously Rangers, Paladins or Swashbucklers, - same thing applies. Might as well use a few weapon types.
In BG 2 there are just too many good weapons in different types so it is a good idea to gain two ++, rather than a single ++++. Although +++++ will gain one more hit, there are just too many ways to increase the attacks per round.
Cases where it's good to be proficient in more than one weapon include:
blunt vs slashing when mobs are resistant to one or the other.
two hand vs dual wield or sword and board.
melee vs.ranged
In the first case I like to focus on Khalid with his Long Sword and then devote a slot to morning star or mace just to have for swapping.
In the second case I have minsc focus mainly on two-handed sword prof and style and then grab bastard sword for when I need to go sword and board with him and so he can use the bastard sword vs. shapeshifters in various spots in the game.
In the third case I like everyone to be at least proficient with a ranged weapon. Even a cavalier can use a returning melee/thrown weapon.
Outside of that there's no real incentive to just be proficient in everything. Ideally on subsequent play throughs you know enough about what gear is available, where and when, to plan out your character.
For example. I have a level 10 Berserker who just solo'd The Black Pits. His THAC0 was a NEGATIVE ONE! (-1) with THREE attacks per round with a two-handed sword.
He'd very rarely ever miss...and that's more valuable to me than having another weapon type.
(He'll get a Pip in Staffs for blunt at Lvl 13 when BG2EE comes out maybe)
He's got ++ in Two Weapon Style too...meaning he's not going to get any better with that weapon. Just one more 1/2 attack at level 13.
Other weapon types are great. But...for classes that require more flexibility to make up for power they can't get following in one weapon.
All your fighter multiclasses, paladins, rangers and barbarians can give your party flexibility, the pure fighters then have the luxury to stick to a single discipline and excel at it.
In BG1 using xp cap I end up with 2 in dual wield, 2 hammer, 1 longsword.
If you want to spread out points it appears you would be better off being a pure Ranger. They are limited to 2 points anyway and get a free 2 points in two weapon style. This allows them to have the most possible weapon variety I believe.
Actually as I said earlier my first love right now is this Beserker I've rolled, who is a Grand Master in Two Handed Swords.
My goal is to dual to Thief at level 13, and when he gets Use Any Item as a High Level Ability to give him Carsomyr (which he should be able to back-stab with at that point around level 18 or so)
There's meta gaming, and then there's META gaming...as good as Crom Faeyr (the Hammer you mentioned) is...I think that there's lots of undersung weapon classes potentially for Grand Mastery.
For instance, Straight Fighters really could do a number with Bows of all kinds, more so than an archer since they'll get more attacks per round and can dual class to Mage or Thief but keep that skill.
There's great potions that get you up to 22-24 strength, belts that get you close too. And 19 and 20 Strength aren't that different from 18/91-18/00 in terms of damage bonus. (The to hit bonus stays the same in that range)
I think there's tons of great weapon combinations. For a Kensai I think it's hard to get better than Scimitars, Bastard Swords or Axes when I look at special abilities. But I would want to pick one to be great in.
And Flail of the Ages is in my opinion the best single handed weapon in the game for damage output.
*shrug*
I get you man, and you are right about it being an investment that pays little between ++ to +++++ in terms of bonuses.
The truth is the extra attack is amazing, but the overall THAC0 and damage bonus add up with that extra attack. And every pip between three and five is just one piece of that puzzle.
There are a lot of amazing weapons. I personally like to have a fighter who uses Staves usually for Staff of the Ram. And weapons like Foebane, Usano's Blade, Axe of The Unyielding and Flail of the Ages are always on my list.
But you can build a lot of different animals and be successful.
I think with Rangers, Paladins and Multi-classes it's essentially unwise not to have multiple types of weapon skills. Especially if you dual wield. For exactly the reasons you bring up.
But a great Warrior class with Grand Mastery in the right weapon can make a case for combinations where you don't even need fighter High Level Abilities to get a lot of attacks. And your THAC0 over time will be that much better during the whole of the game.
I think even more so for two handed weapons and ranged weapons Grand Mastery makes sense...which is why I've never gotten why they keep giving ranger NPC's two handed swords and halberds. (I always shadow keeper to one handed weapons since they seem meant for having lots of weapons to choose from.)
Can't backstab with two handed swords.
Does single weapon style ONLY work when you have a one handed weapon equipped, or can I use a two handed weapon and still get -2 AC? I'm debating whether I should do single weapon style or two handed weapon style with the quarterstaff.
"SINGLE WEAPON STYLE:
This weapon class is for characters who do not wish to use a shield but want some bonus when using a one handed weapon. With one slot spent on this proficiency, the wielder gets a -1 bonus to AC and inflicts critical damage on an attack roll of 19 or 20 if using a single weapon. A second slot increases the AC bonus to a total of -2."
No, you don't get the bonus of -2 AC or 19-20 crit when wielding a two-handed weapon.
I suggest either dual-wielding or wielding two-handed weapon. Single weapon style isn't worth it.
You'd be at -4 for dex (assuming 18) -2 single weapon style, -2 Twinkle -2 Kensai Bonus so you'd be at 0.
Using a charge of a shield amulet would throw you at -6 I think.
If you're looking for some epic backstab cheese, combine the Staff of the Magi and the Staff of the Ram. Equip the SotM to invis yourself, switch to the SotR to backstab, lather, rinse, repeat.