Scout Kit for Ranger
moopy
Member Posts: 938
See Kit Description below.
ZanathKariashi's idea is much better than mine.
ZanathKariashi's idea is much better than mine.
Post edited by moopy on
3
Comments
Scout- d8 HD
Advantages-
No Alignment requirement
+15% Stealth, +10% Find/disarm Traps, +5% Set traps (gains Find and Set trap at the same rate as Stealth)
Gains set Snare at the same rate as a thief. 2 uses at level 1.
+2 Movement Speed, +3 at 15, +4 at 20, +5 30
Backstab x2
Level 3: Immunity to Entangle
Level 6: Immunity to Web
Level 9: Immunity to Slow
Level 12: Permanent Non-detection
Disadvantages-
Cannot Specialize in weapons (doesn't apply to weapon styles)
No free ** Two weapon at creation
Weapon types restricted to those used by thieves
No spell-casting at all
No Charm Animal
Cannot use any armor heavier then studded leather, except elven chain.
I like the immunities, the trap/percent changes, the backstab modifier, and even the no spell casting which was my original idea, but I was afraid it would be making it too much like a thief. Though restricting them to thief weapons, can't specialize, no spell casting, and d8 hit dice is basically making them a fast thief with free action and sucky backstab. So this would make more sense as a thief kit.
Stalkers only have the armor as a penalty, so I feel the disadvantages went way too far into making it a Thief.
Also removing the ranger free two weapon would open the door for wanting other ranger kits to have this changed like Archer, and I'm so tired of that being brought up.
Again, I like that as a kit idea for a thief kit, but the original idea spawned from wanting a Ranger that could disarm traps and make their own traps. That idea may have been bad to begin with though.
I'd much rather take out all spell casting, and remove the backstab idea and other benefits, but leave in some of the things that make a Ranger a fighter class like Specialization and weapon choices but with trap setting / disarming. Though... I think it would almost make it into a weaker F/T multi so there wouldn't be a huge point to that.
To reiterate again though. LOVE your modifications way more than what I started out with, just think it makes a better thief kit.
You're not looking at the bigger picture, and are apparently very spoiled by that overpowered garbage that Bioware calls kits (most of which in no-way resemble their much better balanced PnP incarnations). The ones closest to their actual PnP stats are the ones people cry are underpowered, though they actually aren't at all.
And ranger con health bonus instead of thief. Didn't think of that.
My original goal was a kit for ranger that would be something like a low level bounty hunter dualed to a fighter, but that might be too powerful for a kit.
The above scout would be extremely powerful through most of BG, due to the ease at which they could hit and fade for backstabs (and be able to use boots of stealth the whole game since they wouldn't need boots of speed), and starting higher strength without taking str items from characters that are in much more dire need of them (and you wouldn't get for most of the game anyway), and around the start of BG2, their trap usage would become consistent enough and powerful enough, to more then replace their lack of specialization (in BG1 a single x2 backstab adds more damage then GM can, and they can still get an extra attack 1/2 per round after that, if they dual-wield) or spell-casting (not to mention they can just beat enemies to death in melee only slightly slower then a plain ranger with specialization would, if that enemy wasn't killed instantly after after being led into a trap or two). Not to mention all the extra xp you get from disarming traps in BG2 (Thief/Scout level: 1+ 1000 xp per trap, 6+ 1750 per trap, 11+ 2750 per trap, 16+ 3250 per trap).
Specialization and GM are not what makes warrior types powerful, it's their naturally gaining extra base attacks and a massive amount of thac0 that ensure most if not all will connect. If you're hurting for str, then yes, they do help out, but if you're the typically grossly Overpowered PC, you don't even need them.
@Kaigen they gain set traps at a much slower rate then their stealth or find traps, so it'll be early BG2 before they can set them reliably. It's most due to the fact that they're good at finding and disarming traps, which would also include some knowledge at how to make them yourself, as your expertise at disarming them grew. (it would also give them some extra umph for when backstabs aren't very effective mid-late or when there aren't anymore traps in a dungeon. While their extra speed can be exploited for kiting, it would really benefit from being able to lead them into a trap).
A scout being the one most likely to encounter the enemy and knowing their number would also be the most likely candidate to also set up a few snares or traps to soften the enemy up prior to engaging the party. The x2 backstab represents their limited ability to strike from an ambush once the enemy has been engaged but lacking the thief or stalkers knowledge of striking weak points to greater effect, and unlike a thief who would disadvantaged in straight combat after a backstab, they could either fight it out, or flee from the combat to pull away some of their forces, possibly into some previously set traps, or to move to a new flanking ambush.
(My scout idea is pretty much a mash-up of the Skirmisher and Scout classes from 3rd edition...good scouting ability, and the ability to zip in and cause damage and escape, breaking up the enemy forces in process, while being able to set up ambushes to weaken or kill the enemy, but sacrifice straight up combat power to do so.)
The only issue I have with it is that it seems like it's so thoroughly embracing a thief's scouting capabilities that it has abandoned the ranger's identity. I agree with the removal of Charm Animal and spellcasting for balance's sake, but in its current state this kit could just as easily be a thief or fighter kit. I'd like to see the tiniest relic of the character's Ranger status maintained.
If I might suggest a few changes:
Keep the Ranger's free ** in dual-wielding at character creation, and continue to allow it to use a full warrior's array of weapons. Disallowing weapon specialization is fine. Backstabbing should still be restricted to thief weapons, so a scout would still likely stick to a thief's melee options. Since they're a warrior, though, they could still use longbows or heavy crossbows for ranged attacks.
To compensate for that, prohibit them from using any shields. Or perhaps limit them to bucklers, similar net effect. This guy shouldn't be tanking, and backstabbing from behind a tower shield seems silly.
I'd also like them to still be restricted to Good alignments, like a normal ranger. I don't know how important it would be to the rest of you, but I'd like a scout to hold onto their ranger identity, and an evil scout seems a little wrong. If there's such a demand for a non-thief evil scouting class, I'd be more interested in seeing a Cleric of Mask (Or similar sneaky god, I don't have as much background in the lore as most of you) who gives up some clerical power in exchange for scouting abilities.
Besides, Rangers are only, and I do mean ONLY good because they're based on Aragorn. It was so blatant in 1st edition that they got sued over it...and calling Halflings hobbits but I digress...even in 2nd edition, it's still there, though they don't outright say it and try to use some public domain characters as examples...some of which are hilariously fail examples on their part.
Completely overlooking the fact that there are plenty of Evil Nature deities who would be more then willing to empower trackers and such to serve them. Or hell, neutral Rangers should be even more common then Good ones, since the majority of nature deities are in fact Neutral (about 50% neutral, with 25% good and evil each), and the ranger's spell-casting requires a nature patron...and doesn't make any damn sense they'd suddenly forget they're training with dual-weapons, tracking ability, or stealth, just because they violated their Deities beliefs...it would simply prevent them from casting spells, or maybe using their influence animal skill (though it's non-magical and just a result of years of learning animal behavior and so I have a hard time justifying it)
Updated kit idea looks better than last time I saw it. Good job.
Edit: And I agree, a reputation mod should be available to clear up some of the silliness of required reputations. Rangers should be able to be any rep, Druids can have anything with N in it, some Paladins in the books and lore have been more NG or even CG...etc...
And really...loud and restrictive heavy armor doesn't really WORK with a scout, who by definition travels ahead quick and quiet, to see whats around the next bend before it can assault the main group.
I mean technically you're right....it is personal choice, and is perfectly valid in PnP, unfortunately, there's a lot of things that BG is just too restrictive to account for that couldn't be better handled by just preventing the situation in the first place. (that's why dual-class character lose abilities, when in PnP they never lose their abilities, but if they use their old abilities before it's time, they gain no xp for that encounter since they're relying on old knowledge rather then using and learning their new class...so rather then bother keeping track of that, they just disabled them until the appropriate time)
They're a little weaker in BG1 (though they can still use any bows, so they're only 2 damage less then archer would be at that stage) due to a decided lack of good clubs (a plain +1 is best) or staves (though there are some good options, such as the staff mace (1hd 2d4+2), or the staff of striking (1d6+9) and only getting spell casting at the end of the game, but once they hit BG2 (Gnasher (1d6+2, deals 2 damage per round for 3 rounds, no save) and Blackblood (1d6+3, +3 acid) are acquired at almost the same time and own everything except for +4 and above enemies..and you should have the staff of the ram+4 (1d6+10, 10% chance for stun) by then), they dominate from the moment they leave that cage.
An Archer is nice, but requires their max level bonus just to compete with melee (not to mention that Missile (Piercing) is the most commonly resisted damage type), and while the stalker is nice, most enemies you'd really benefit from a good solid backstab are immune, and their extra spells are pretty crappy.
The Beastmaster on the other hand continues to bludgeon his way across Amn, and while it's unlikely they'll kill enemies for you, the shear usefulness of having summoned distractions or spell soakers is a massive benefit, vs a bunch of otherwise useless low level druid spells. And since you can't wear armor greater then studded leather anyway, you can use your stealth to sneak in and start mashing an enemies face in, which due to the elemental damage on Blackblood and no save DoT damage on Gnasher, they can never get spells off and even if they do, only PfMW is a threat to them, since the extra damages will penetrate stoneskin or similar protections.
i can't see a role for the beastmaster, other than to help in very low to mid level encounters and if you want that have a druid variant, at least they'll be useful all through the series.
what you have done though is convinced me to roll a charname proficient in clubs. i'm thinking a cleric/thief, buffing and backstabbing and dual swinging clubs!
All you would have to do is disable the thief's ability to steal and pickpocket, whilst giving it the advantages and disadvantages of an Archer. It works out quite well since the thief's weapon selection suits the Scout idea perfectly. You'd have to limit it to proficiency in Melee whilst letting it go up to mastery of ranged weapons just to be fair.
A Ranged Thief is pretty close to a Ranger with Thief like abilities.