Thief weapon prof. questions
ar057
Member Posts: 9
Just looking for some input on preferred weapon proficiencies for a thief kit (bounty hunter). I'm torn between which ranged & melee weapon combo to go with. So...
1.) is it wise to take something like staff or clubs so I can backstab w/ blunt damage? (blunt damage less resisted?)
2.) other than racial THAC0 bonuses, are the differences between slings, s.bows, and crossbows negligible? What should I base my choice on here?
Essentially, I like the idea of the bonus AC from single-weapon style, but I think staves might have more potential than clubs. Should I not restrict myself to blunt for melee? Any input is greatly appreciated.
1.) is it wise to take something like staff or clubs so I can backstab w/ blunt damage? (blunt damage less resisted?)
2.) other than racial THAC0 bonuses, are the differences between slings, s.bows, and crossbows negligible? What should I base my choice on here?
Essentially, I like the idea of the bonus AC from single-weapon style, but I think staves might have more potential than clubs. Should I not restrict myself to blunt for melee? Any input is greatly appreciated.
1
Comments
By the time you get to the second half of the game, the +1 racial bonuses really don't help that much anymore.
The nice thing about 2 handed weapons is that you get the additional weapon damage, but also get improved critical (from the fighting style) as well as an ease-of-use when it comes to swapping to ranged, which you can't get if you used a buckler. I personally used single weapon style and a long sword on my thief, though (Coran).
If you don't think you're going to one-shot kill someone, the Dagger of Venom is very nice, particularly againest spell castings, as the poision tick disrupts their spell casting for 12 rounds! Also, if you manage to get another hit in and they fail their save again, the poison effect stacks. Combine with single weapon fighting for more chance of a crit.
I quite like Scimitars for thieves too now in BGEE, this also gives you proficiencies in Ninja-Tos and Wakazashis, there is a +1 version of the latter, at least, early in the game, and this does piercing damage, which can be more effective, though some enemies are partially (e.g. skeletons) who wholly immune to this (e.g. Mustard Jellies) - you have a choice, though as Scimitars and Ninja-Tos do slashing damage, and there is now a +2 Scimitar available mid-game and one or two (depending on your alignment) +3 Scimitars to use which you can pickpockt (or kill for, if strong enough, or with fondness for cheese) from a certain drow elf ranger... There are also some great Scimitars in BG2., including one that gives an extra attack.
Crossbows are okay, but only when you can get the +1 Lightcrossbow of Speed, as this gets 2 APR and much lower speed than normal crossbows, and does more damage (base 1-8 vs. 1-6) than a shortbow, but you probably won't be able to afford it until level 4, and the other crossbows in BG2 are only 1 APR. There is also a great (and upgradable) lightcrossbow in BG2. The range of available magic ammo isn't as good as bows, though, though the (expensive) bolts of lightning are good. If you have another NPC who uses shortbows, though, crosbows are not a bad choice.
BTW as you probably know, If an elf, you only get the +1 THAC0 bonus with shortbows or longbows/composite bows, though (and a pure class thief can only use shortbows). BTW elves also get the +1 THAC0 bonus with *all* swords (but not daggers) *not* just longswords (i.e. they get the bonus for shortswords, scimitars etc., katanas, two-handed swords...)
Slings are okay if you have high strength, as they add strength bonus damage (darts don't, slings, throwing daggers and throwing axes do in BGEE, but a thief can't use the latter and they only get 1 APR) , also halflings get +1 THAC0 with slings. There are quite a few magic slings in the game (both in BGEE and BG2) and the ones you can buy are cheap. The probem with slings, though, is that they're only 1 APR and the range of magic ammo isn't as good as bows (but they have added elemental damage bullets to BGEE, though they aren't +1/+2 to hit). If taking Monaron as an NPC, though, he can be good with them, as gets 2 pips in slings (he's fighter/thief) and gets the halfling +! THAC0 bonus.
BTW daggers are another ranged option, at least early on, especially if you have high strength, as they also add strength bonus damage and get 2 APR, BUT there ae no magic throwing daggers in BGEE, but there are a few good returning ones in BG2.
In one of my current games I'm playing an illusionist thief, she has proficiencies in daggers (for dager of venon) and shortbows, then went single-weapon style, but will probably go for Katanas at level 8, mostly to prepare for Celestial Fury in BG2, as there are only two Katanas available in BGEE - a (breakable) non-magic one in Candlekeep at the start (which you can only afford it doing both the Firebeard gold trick *and* if you have enough in Open Locks to steal the Sapphire) and a +1 Katana available mid-late game.
Work your way to the dagger of venom and the speed crossbow (both sold at smithy in Beregost)
At level 4 I'd take a point in Single Weapon Style, critting on a 19 or 20 is nice especially on backstabs, and you said you wanted to go this direction.
At level 8 I'd take a point in katanas, Celestial Fury in BG2 ftw as Oxford says, especially at lower levels.
At level 12 I'd take Two Weapon Fighting. (If you decide you don't want single weapon fighting you could have taken this at 4, that would move everything else I say down by 4 levels each)
At level 16 I'd take scimitars, to offhand Belm (still main handing Celestial Fury), and maybe main hand Scarlet Ninja-To once you get Use Any Item. (Main handing Scarlet NInja-To, and off handing Belm would turn you into a whirling bladed death machine in the shape of a humanoid.)
At level 20 I'd take staves, for back stabbing with Staff of the Ram.
At level 24 I'd take Two Handed Weapons so your backstab with Staff of the Ram will crit on 19 or 20.
You really don't need anything else at this point, but at level 28 I'd take long swords and at 32 bastard swords. There are a ton of cool longswords, and with both longswords and bastard swords you can dual wield The Answerer with Foebane. The first one lowers magic resistance, and the second one hits the target with Larloch's Minor Drain.
I think a point that can be made here, is since you can only put one point as a Bounty Hunter per weapon, and you aren't multiclassed, and don't intend on dual classing ( I assume) you will be able to end up with SEVERAL weapon choices.
I'd also like to mention I'm playing a Bounty Hunter in BG1:EE right now, and I started with daggers and crossbows, and took single weapon style at 4 and I'm enjoying that combination. (Because of Dagger of Venom, Light Crossbow of Speed + Bolts of Lightning)
If going the crossbow route, you might want to go daggers (which still gives you a ranged weapon) and single weapon fighting at level 1 and then crossbows at level 4, by which time you can probably afford the Light Crossbow of Speed.
If you go Swashbuckler you can put 3 points in but as you only get 4 points in the entire of EE it's still not a hands-down winner and can only be used effectively mid-to-late game. In BG2 it makes sense to have a dual-wielding swashy as you start with enough proficiency points rather than getting there very slowly. The only instances in BG:EE where dual wielding is very effective for a thief are for a dual/multiclass fighter/thief.
If you're going to go mainly ranged and occasional backstabbing then either shortbow/crossbow for ranged weapon and quarterstaff/2-handed prof for melee works well. Shortbows get more attacks per round (aside from the light crossbow of speed) but do less damage per hit. Might be worth noting that the variety of magical arrows is probably better than magical bolts.
There's a good variety of quarterstaves in BG:EE and BG2 so they're always a solid choice. Magical shortbows and light crossbows are both alright but a bit meh in BG:EE, but ranged is very strong at low levels anyway.
I'd like to see BG2:EE add a dagger with an extra APR like belm/scarlet ninja-to/kudane.
A back-stab is a misnomer, which 3rd edition addressed by calling them sneak attacks instead. A backstab is just a precise blow, struck against an unaware foe's weak points from behind (base of the skull, temples, kidney shots, etc). And yes, a sharp jab with a staff or club in the right place can cause just as much internal damage as knife or sword, and in some cases more, since a knife or sword will just puncture an organ relatively cleanly, a staff blow will rupture it all over the place, in addition to several other instances of internal damage, not to mention being more effective at backstabing targets in armor, whose armor would limit the likelihood of penetration, but a blunt weapon's damage would still cause internal damage)
Any Rogue can Dual-wield just fine in BG2 (Druids less so since they can only wield 1 speed weapon, but it does help make up a little for their lack of direct buffs (a cleric just deals so much damage and can buff their thac0 so high they don't need extra attacks to compete), if they dual-wield speed weapons. By then your speed weapon's thac0 will off-set the dual-wielding penalty, and the massive volume of attacks you can put out (8-9 under improved haste, gear depending), allow you to blow through enemies only slightly slower then a fighter would, since you'd lack the little bit of extra damage per hit that specialization/GM gives. Especially if you get UAI and can wield SN as your main hand weapon. While less effective against some boss enemies, you'll tear through enemies not requiring +2 or higher to hit (only applies to some dragons, some undead, and a handful of boss enemies). Most non-boss enemies simply don't have that good of AC, and you'll have a better then 60% chance of hitting most of them per swing.
There is a +3 short sword of backstabbing in BG1 which is pretty nice for, well... Backstabbing. just saying.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15205/improved-offhand-daggers#latest
I like that idea too. I'd like to see that (which is of a defensive nature) but I'd love to see a +4 or +5 end game dagger that is offensive in nature.
If by most, you mean liches, a handful of named undead, and greater mummies then yes I agree (though backstabbing vampires is a pain in the ass since their ai goes nuts when an undetectable enemy is within 40 ft or so)