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Help Dualing imoen

I have her currently at lvl 4 with 80 find traps.

Should i rise find traps to 100 and dual her?

that means dualing her at lvl 5

Comments

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,146
    Most people dual her at level 6 when they can have Find Traps and Open Locks at 100. But I wouldn't bother unless you need the mage, and can go without her thief services for a while.
    Oxford_Guy
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Keep in mind that there are potions available to raise open locks and find traps. So, you don't necessarily need her values all the way to 100%. If you're already at, say, 80 and 80, I'd go ahead and dual now.
    TJ_Hooker
  • GaNoNGaNoN Member Posts: 151
    Madhax said:

    Keep in mind that there are potions available to raise open locks and find traps. So, you don't necessarily need her values all the way to 100%. If you're already at, say, 80 and 80, I'd go ahead and dual now.

    80 for find traps and the other 80 for what?

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,146
    GaNoN said:

    Madhax said:

    Keep in mind that there are potions available to raise open locks and find traps. So, you don't necessarily need her values all the way to 100%. If you're already at, say, 80 and 80, I'd go ahead and dual now.

    80 for find traps and the other 80 for what?

    Open Locks. Those are the two most essential skills.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited January 2013
    The answer to when to dual her depends on

    1) which Thief skills do you want her to have most (mainly locks/traps versus stealth for backstabbing)?
    2) is there another thief in the party?
    3) do you plan on doing Durlag's Tower?

    In your case, you can do Durlag's with lots of potions of perception. Otherwise 80 Find Traps and 55 Pick Locks (assuming you poured all your skill points into those two skills) should be fine for most everywhere else. As a mage she'll be able to cast Knock for the tougher locks. Or she can drink a potion of master thievery.

    I would dual her at level 4 if you intend to use her Thieving skills for find/remove traps and pick locks.

    If you have another Thief in the party who can take care of the locks and traps, then you can pour her skill points into stealth (Move Silently and Hide in Shadows) and have her backstab. She can buff first with Armor and Strength once she has both Mage and Thief skills together.

    Because there are items available that improve stealth, you can even get away with dualing Imoen at Thief 3, although then her backstab multiplier will be x2. On the plus side, you get her Thief skills back at a mere 10,000 XP (total). So you can very soon begin having her backstab and cast spells, both.

    If you dual her at level 5 she'll get the backstab multiplier x3. But you'll have to dual her when you reach 10,000 XP. And then you'll have to reach mage level 6 before she can backstab again. Which is 40,000 XP.

    In both cases she can reach Mage 9, btw.

    So what you are weighing there is 1) having her backstabs be weaker (damage multiplied x2 versus x3) versus 2) being able to use her Mage and Thief skills together for a greater portion of the game.
    TJ_HookerRnRClown
  • GaNoNGaNoN Member Posts: 151
    Lemernis said:

    The answer to when to dual her depends on

    1) which Thief skills do you want her to have most (mainly locks/traps versus stealth for backstabbing)?
    2) is there another thief in the party?
    3) do you plan on doing Durlag's Tower?

    In your case, you can do Durlag's with lots of potions of perception. Otherwise 80 Find Traps and 55 Pick Locks (assuming you poured all your skill points into those two skills) should be fine for most everywhere else. As a mage she'll be able to cast Knock for the tougher locks. Or she can drink a potion of master thievery.

    I would dual her at level 4 if you intend to use her Thieving skills for find/remove traps and pick locks.

    If you have another Thief in the party who can take care of the locks and traps, then you can pour her skill points into stealth (Move Silently and Hide in Shadows) and have her backstab. She can buff first with Armor and Strength once she has both Mage and Thief skills together.

    Because there are items available that improve stealth, you can even get away with dualing Imoen at Thief 3, although then her backstab multiplier will be x2. On the plus side, you get her Thief skills back at a mere 10,000 XP (total). So you can very soon begin having her backstab and cast spells, both.

    If you dual her at level 5 she'll get the backstab multiplier x3. But you'll have to dual her when you reach 10,000 XP. And then you'll have to reach mage level 6 before she can backstab again. Which is 40,000 XP.

    In both cases she can reach Mage 9, btw.

    So what you are weighing there is 1) having her backstabs be weaker (damage multiplied x2 versus x3) versus 2) being able to use her Mage and Thief skills together for a greater portion of the game.

    My main is a pure thief who is rising pick pocket and Lockpick
    So maybe i shouldnt dual her yet? or what should i do.

    I only invested in imoen: Find traps and place traps.
  • hammernanvilhammernanvil Member Posts: 98
    Seems if one is to dual Imoen, its best just just use her for locks and maybe traps and never waste points elsewhere, chances are she isn't going to be opening up a fight in a robe and less hp...

    If my main was a thief, I would work on traps and stealth and leave the thievery to imoen. That way I could be the scout... I always see the "CHARNAME" as the frontliner/scout. Always made more sense to me the PC was a Fighter/Thief Thief or Ranger.
    TJ_Hooker
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    It really depends what you want to do with her.

    If you are going to have some other thief in the party, you might just want to use her as a good-aligned mage who can use shortbows. In which case there is no reason not to dual her at level 2.

    If you leave it to level 6, she will eventually be more useful, but you will have to spend a fair chunk of the game with some other trap detecting thief filling in for her.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @GaNoN Hmm, I forgot about Set Traps for her. That's an interesting option that I haven't used much for BG1 Thieves (via Tutu, BGT, and now BG:EE).

    Well anyway, I should think it will be okay to dual her at level 4. As mentioned, a Thief can use potions of perception and master thievery, and as a Mage Imoen will eventually be able to cast Knock (or cast Knock via a scroll in a quickslot at any point--even by mid-game you're swimming in cash so you could buy a scroll for that purpose).

    The main advantage of waiting one more level to dual her is you'll then get an additional backstab multiplier (x3 instead of just x2). On the downside, you won't get her Thieving skills back until she reaches 40,000 XP (Mage 6/Thief 5).

    From what you've described thus far, it sounds like you haven't put any skill points into Move Silently and Hide in Shadows. So you're probably not intending to use her as a backstabber. In which case the backstab multiplier isn't so important. If that's the case, then I would dual her at Thief 4. You can then get her Thieving skills back at 20,000 XP (Mage 5/Thief 4).
    GaNoN
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    Something that hasn't been mentioned is what Map areas can and cannot be negotiated without a Thief while waiting for Imoen's Mage levels. I am working on my First Runthrough with Charname as a Fighter/Mage and no other Mage until Imoen duals. So I would rather have her Mage Levels a few days earlier and forego the x3Backstab. So I am definitely leaning more towards Level 4...


    Later on I will look to exchange Kivan for Coran. So will rely on those two for Stealth [plus some help from my Familiar]. Just cant see Imoen as a Backstabber!

    Assuming that I will need Find Traps throughout Nashkel Mines but wondering about Firewine Bridge, Ulcaster and Temple areas. I am expecting to probably get it wrong on my first run...most likely by having Imoen closer to Level 5 than Level 4 by the time I finish Nashkel Mines. So I will definitely be stashing an early save giving me the option to revise my campaign route so Imoen will be @ Level 4 after the Mines, when I can do without a thief for a fortnight or so....
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  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited February 2013
    In a current game I'm planning to run a (non-dualled) Imoen, focusing on Find Traps and Set Traps (which are fun to use), relying on Dorn early on to bash locked chests open, then later will pick up Coran too, who has lots of points in Open Locks and the stealth skills. My Blade will handle pick-pocket/shop-lifting duties
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729

    Something that hasn't been mentioned is what Map areas can and cannot be negotiated without a Thief while waiting for Imoen's Mage levels. I am working on my First Runthrough with Charname as a Fighter/Mage and no other Mage until Imoen duals. So I would rather have her Mage Levels a few days earlier and forego the x3Backstab. So I am definitely leaning more towards Level 4...


    Later on I will look to exchange Kivan for Coran. So will rely on those two for Stealth [plus some help from my Familiar]. Just cant see Imoen as a Backstabber!

    Assuming that I will need Find Traps throughout Nashkel Mines but wondering about Firewine Bridge, Ulcaster and Temple areas. I am expecting to probably get it wrong on my first run...most likely by having Imoen closer to Level 5 than Level 4 by the time I finish Nashkel Mines. So I will definitely be stashing an early save giving me the option to revise my campaign route so Imoen will be @ Level 4 after the Mines, when I can do without a thief for a fortnight or so....

    BTW There are also traps here:


    Cloakwood and Spiderwood... (web traps)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited February 2013
    On the subject of the Nashkel mines and it's traps and locks, you can actually get through the mines without much trouble without a Thief:

    On the mines' third level there's two of traps on a rock bridge that a Cleric 3 can detect, but they're not side-steppable. Branwen can Find Traps, ditto a PC Cleric. (Here the Cleric may want to use Sanctuary as well as Find Traps, the player will see why.) They don't always go off if a character goes through them. But assuming you have at least several party members, someone is going to take a hit. The damage from these traps isn't too bad. It's easily healed. Best to have a tank go through them (and maybe use up a potion of stone form if you have one for this before tripping the traps). These traps easily survivable without a tank as well.

    The three traps at the end of the third level of the mines (entrance to the final level) can be carefully side-stepped, after a Cleric reveals them.

    There are no containers in the mine (? at least of importance) that require lockpicking.


    Also, IIRC re: a Thief's skill level for the Nashkel mines:

    A Thief doesn't need a very high Find Traps score to detect and remove the traps in the Nashkel mines. I think Imoen's starting score is sufficient.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    It's only really Durlag's Tower that will completly stump you without remove traps.
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    @Lemernis and @Fardragon: Thanks for the tips. Now I can focus on imagining a really satisfying StoryLine which is what I mostly enjoy. It seems to me that Charname would have a burning need for more information ASAP about all these forces he is encountering for the first time and which of them might be the source of the Assassins and [an obvious game fact] the MUCH higher Level group that murdered Gorion, suggests two different enemies which may or may not be aware of each other.

    At Beregost we have become aware of Bounty Hunters, Bandits, Nashkel Mines and a Dark Cleric, Bassilus plus the [as yet unknown] deadly armored figure, Zaervok. And there is also the question of how/why did Imoen just happen to turn up seemingly aware of the fate of Gorion. Who is she and just why has she also been a ward at Candlekeep?

    And Charname would also be wondering why Gorion was headed to FAI in the first place.

    My storyline seems to evolving towards frequent comings and goings as first Khalid and later Imoen are dispatched for various purposes [known and possible] with multiple Party changes. And a Merry troupe of 10 current and former Party members, plus my FMCharname, all gathered in Beregost at the beginning of Chapter 3

    Khalid, Bless his heart, is the one who comes and goes the most --gathering information and making connections that Jaheira assures PC are essential to what lies ahead in the Gathering Storm. If I were to write a novel about all this...his stuttering, morale failing Self with the devastatingly alluring wife would turn out to play a crucial and powerful role suggesting an incorruptible spiritual courage that simply falters in the face of Physical Violence but is brilliant as an underestimated Double-Agent ... who simply "forgets" to fold his cards when the Bad Guys are sure they have found a Weak Link...

    Guess I should recheck his Basic Stats to see what his Intelligence is....
  • FafnirFafnir Member Posts: 232
    Fifteen.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,146
    Eadwyn some of your questions won't be answered until BG2! But I love that you're asking them, you are a very engaged player.
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    Like. (Y)
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