Question on Multi and Dual classing...at the same time...CHEATING
StrayedMonkey
Member Posts: 146
I have not messed with Shadowkeeper or gate keeper at all in regards to BGEE and have a question about the possibility of this idea...if anyone knows I'd like to know as well.
Is it possible to create a Human multi-class then dual him to a single class?
For example make a Human multi-classes Fighter/Thief...hit like lvl 3,6,9,13 (you know the drill), and then dual him to lets say a mage. Would this work? I thought this would a be a very interesting playthrough. And by work I mean the game doesn't crash and burn eating my computer.
Is it possible to create a Human multi-class then dual him to a single class?
For example make a Human multi-classes Fighter/Thief...hit like lvl 3,6,9,13 (you know the drill), and then dual him to lets say a mage. Would this work? I thought this would a be a very interesting playthrough. And by work I mean the game doesn't crash and burn eating my computer.
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Comments
1) I don't believe you can multi-class humans, even with Shadowkeeper.
2) Even if you could somehow multi-class a human, you can't multi-class and then dual-class the same character.
Why not just play a F/M/T with XP cap removed? Same basic effect, with less hassle.
You can't dual class non-humans.
Hence this is impossible
You can not dual-class while you are multi-classed, however you can create a mc f/m/t human with the method described above. Or even a kensai/mage/thief, fighter/wild mage/thief, or fighter/mage/assasin for all wacky combos you want, by asigning the kit via SK like I described above.
It's a purely a question out of CURIOSITY. and from what i remember about gatekeeper and vanilla BG you can indeed multi class a human. I just couldnt remember if it allowed the dual class option and dont really want to install everything again to see.
seems that only @lunar answered the question instead of looking for more than whats there. I appreciate the response.
**Future reference for any future responses...I'm not looking for anything any of you have described. I am NOT looking for alternatives, and I'm not looking to play this. If something like this was possible through some crazy ass cheating Id give it a whirl for shits and gigs.
@atcDave clearly its against the rules. did you even read my original post? title has CHEATING in it. I don't wanna hear any of your not legal nonsense. No offense but your post was the least bit helpful or informative. I know all of the legal combinations and whats allowed not allowed.
I am not familiar with the SK for BGEE and was just curious from people who use it if you could create this nonsense of a character. the chosen classes were just examples.
so it sparked my interest to see if any of those crazy modders that are extremely talented have done something like this
I think most of the posters have made some attempt at either answering your question or asking one of their own. it is unfortunate that your question isn't cut and dried, but maybe that is why you asked it. Personally, I'd be more charitable about the answers you got, but that's just me.
For my two cents, if this is (by your own admission) something you would never do, I am not sure why you want to know if it can be done. it is not a legal thing to due per the rules (thanks @atcDave). it is a mish-mash of mechanics (thanks @ajwz). And within the confines of the game itself it makes very little sense to do (thanks @Samus).
@StrayedMonkey
People were largely trying to get at why you would want to do such a thing, as there are clearly other ways to achieve a similar effect with less shenanigans.
Speaking for myself, I am not judging you for asking something that strays outside of the rules. That's really no big deal. I am simply curious about your intent. It's a fair question.
From my experience, I have found that BG is a game that has a somewhat delicate balance, and doing too many powergaming shananigans severely limits the challenge (and therefore the fun) of the game. But of course everyone's experience is different.
Have fun with it.
If it is, let me know, I want to do it.
The reason for this is that dual-classing combinations are already set by class/kit (DUALCLAS.2da), and the multi-class combinations are treated as their own class for those purposes.
You can set the 2da to allow specific multiclass combinations to dual to specific classes; however, doing so results in resetting your multiclass XP to 0 without giving you any benefit from the dualed class.
The intent was clearly given. @KidCarnival and @the_spyder the point to asking a question is to find the answer to that question.
I didn't ask for alternatives with less hassle. Why would I want to even try this? if you read anything I typed you'd see it sparked my curiosity. If i knew the answer I wouldn't have asked. If you don't know the answer don't comment or start off with saying "i'm not sure" and then go into your 2cents and questions.
and part of the interest comes from the fact that Elminster is a Fighter 1/ Rogue 2/ Cleric 9/ Wizard 24/ Archmage 5 or something along those lines. I think options like that would make for interesting character builds. Clearly something that elaborate is not possible given the game.
Since we are talking about ShadowKeeper: yes, you can create a human multiclass that behaves exactly like a normal multiclass.
And yes, you can then turn it into a F/M/T (always using SK). The problem is that at that point he will advance like a multiclass in all the 3 classes.
in 3rd edition human can multiclass but not in 2d edition....
now were did i put my soft drink and popcorn......
As for Elminster and others with really weird class combinations, most of them are 3rd edition as @The_Shairs_Handbook indicated. Also, any of the signature characters created for the brand by people like R A Salvatore or Ed Greenwood are unique characters with a unique skill set. They are not intended to be copied or replicatible, even in a CRPG. And quite frankly almost every single one that I have seen would be a more solid and well rounded character if they were straight legal combinations.
Finally, it looks like you have your answer. (a) from a game mechanics perspective, it looks like it is just about doable but you lose quite a lot if you try. (b) doing it will most probably cause significant problems and stability issues. (c) It makes little sense to do and can lead to significant problems. And (d) what you are trying to do is clearly contrary to the developers original intent. Trying it is/should be consumer beware.
But at the end of the day, if you really want to know if it can be done, try it. If you do not wish (as you indicated) to load up everything and try it, be charitable to those who have given feedback. And if you really feel the need to be insulting to those who respond, be prepared for feedback. Also be aware that causing a row can lead to violations of the TOS.
Glad I could help.
The problem comes in when Wizards (officially) or some player (unofficially) attempts to translate this into a playable character NPC. Whoever is attempting to translate then is forced to say "Well, he must have had some levels in Thief so that he learned how to sneak and pick locks" (again, as an example). This makes for some really wonky game mechanics as you can imagine. Hence the really awful hybrids are born. But they are true to the character as written and so people want to emulate them.
I think even if working with 3rd edition, a fair amount of the "Name" NPCs from Forgotten realms have "officially published" class combinations that are either prohibitive or simply make very little sense. Picking non preferred class combinations with level differentials such that the XP drag would kill a normal player is just one example. Yet players do it, which is fine. They should be allowed to play as they have fun.
At the end of the day though, the actual programming intent of the BG series is 2E which does not lend itself favorably to wild and wonky class combinations. Attempting to blend Dual class with Multi-class (as for example) is suspect at best and probably will leave the program not knowing how to handle any number of situations. It might actually be just about doable using Shadowkeeper, but I would guess there are a lot of variables and things that could go horribly wrong. The best advice someone can give is for whomever is interested, to try themselves.
Some of you may remember an old game (supplement) called "Arduin Grimoire". Many DMs I played with used to mine it for quirky ideas, especially back in the days when official supplements were rare or non-existent. It had an outrageous list of special abilities players could end up with. So the first Mage I ever ran wound up with third level thief skills as a special ability! Those skills were mostly ignored, I really wasn't looking to play a thief, and we had a better one in our party. Later, when converting the game to 2E, those abilities disappeared for good. But a couple times, when imitating that character in CRPGs, I started them as a thief before dueling to Mage. What the heck, right? Get a few extra hot points and short bow usage for very little cost in total experience.
But other times it just won't work as well. I mentioned a few weeks back a character from a TV show I've used; who started as a con artist and petty thief before becoming a deadly warrior. Well, thief dueled to fighter is a lousy combination in AD&D. But the character on the show, although she had her thief skills, was primarily defined as a deadly fighter. So I choose to just dump the thief skills. It was fun on the show, but too much was lost in translation; Sarah Walker just NEEDS to be a melee warrior, so fighter she is.
Many characters I've run have gone through several iterations of the PNP rules and often require such adaptions. Sometimes things are lost. But it's often worth the effort to come up with a character you're really eager to run.