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making a new illusionist

I'm rolling a new illusionist and wonder about stats. 19 int is a given, but in what order are the other stats necessary? im thinking 18 in dex and con for sling thac0 and HP, but I heard somewhere that magi dont scale with more than 16 constitution, for example? im assuming in this line of thinking that im not gonna dual. thoughts?

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Con 18 is good if you want to use that evil ring that reduces your Con by two while its worn. With Con 18 a non-fighter suffers no penalties for wearing it.

    A high Dex is good for the extra AC and for making ranged attacks which is going to be a big source of your damage over the course of the entire saga not just the first game. You're not always going to be able or want to sling magic in every fight.
  • raelcariraelcari Member Posts: 133
    CaptRory said:

    Con 18 is good if you want to use that evil ring that reduces your Con by two while its worn. With Con 18 a non-fighter suffers no penalties for wearing it.

    A high Dex is good for the extra AC and for making ranged attacks which is going to be a big source of your damage over the course of the entire saga not just the first game. You're not always going to be able or want to sling magic in every fight.

    so theres no point in having more than 16 con unless i want the ring. from high hedge, right?
    thanks guys, this was clarifying :)
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Pretty much. Get Con 20 and you'll regenerate like any other character but not worth it unless you're in a solo run.
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    Not true.

    Although you won't get more HP from an 18 CON vs a 16, Gnomes get saving throw bonuses based on their CON.

    There are ways to increase your stats in this game. A 20 CON will allow your character to regenerate, which is incredibly useful.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    You could actually drop int to 13 and do just fine. 19 int is an utter waste of stats and is a noob trap.

    You want max str (carry weight is especially important in BG1 as there's only a single str belt and most of the npcs are VERY lacking in the str department, also handy for BG2 where several ranged weapons give str bonuses to damage and having High str yourself allows you to spread str items to less endowed party mates while still kicking ass at range), dex, Con, at minimum 16 wisdom if you plain to use Wish or limited wish at all.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    INT 19 lets you learn as many spells as you want, which can be handy. Especially for a new player who doesn't know what to avoid and may want to just have everything. If you do INT 18 you can use the book to get up to 19, but I'd just start 19 and give it to an NPC mage at that point. But I'm a bit kooky I'll admit.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    13 gives 9 spells per level. Sorcs get 6 which is already plenty to cover every possible situation, and unlike a sorc, mages can erase spells if it turns out they suck (most of which can be told fairly quickly by just reading the spell description...and if you chose poorly due to not understanding mechanics..just erase it and learn something else).....and you can always just save up your scrolls and drink a couple int potions then learn them all if you really wanna buck the system.

    I admit...I fell for the trap too when I was new...in the end though, because of how limited BG is however, 70% of the spells in the game are borderline useless or redundant.

  • raelcariraelcari Member Posts: 133
    well I did go for 19 INT, so I guess I'll go up to 20 which there is no point in? anyway, dont think my fellow party members are gonna mind since this is their 1st playthrough... thanks for the info tho!
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894

    You could actually drop int to 13 and do just fine. 19 int is an utter waste of stats and is a noob trap.

    You want max str (carry weight is especially important in BG1 as there's only a single str belt and most of the npcs are VERY lacking in the str department, also handy for BG2 where several ranged weapons give str bonuses to damage and having High str yourself allows you to spread str items to less endowed party mates while still kicking ass at range), dex, Con, at minimum 16 wisdom if you plain to use Wish or limited wish at all.

    Ya know, I consider myself decently knowledgable in Baldur's Gate stuff, and very knowledgable in AD&D (especially 2e) stuff, but I never considered dropping my INT with an arcane spellchucker.

    It's genius! I love it! You could probably go even lower if you wanted to! Like you said, a sorcerer does fine with a max of 6 spells! Heck, I'm digging the Dragon Disciple with only 4 per level!
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    One should always consider making as much illusionists as possible. You know, they have this habit to go invisible and disappear.
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    edited May 2013
    With a decent STR and DEX and a shield spell, he's no slouch with a quarterstaff either early in the game. I know it sounds weird, but my 1st level gnome illusionist breezed through the assassins in Candlekeep without having to resort to spells other than shield.
    Post edited by franco on
  • raelcariraelcari Member Posts: 133
    what I don't get is that if you drop int, where do you spend your points? I rolled a total of 93 on this guy, so i natually maxed str, con, dex behind the 19 int.
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    edited May 2013
    @raelcari. 93 is a super high roll and will allow you to max several stats. It is relatively rare. I just put together an illusionist at 78. Nothing really gets maxed, but the PC is out there and functioning.
    Post edited by franco on
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    edited May 2013
    Maximize Charisma!!!

    (Or Wisdom, if you want a good Lore)
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited May 2013
    If you intend to use wish meaningfully at all later, 18 wis is a must, but you really only need 15 at creation, or even 14 if you want to be really efficient.

    I'm just saying that if you find your stats lacking in regard to str/dex/con, then feel free to sacrifice int, because it is borderline worthless (Even charisma is arguable worth more then Int is...but since there's no item to set int to 18, charisma is slightly worse to invest in overall), aside from spell learn chance (anything over 50% is just as likely to succeed as 96%..and you can't hit 100% till 24, which can't be hit naturally, so no point in bothering with worrying about it) (would be a different story if they'd implemented minimum int for spells levels...but even then, 13 int allows casting up to 6th level, or the illusion immunity that REALLY high (19+) int is supposed to give)

    The only reason I picked 13, is because that's the minimum int for a bard, and also happens to give over a 50% chance of spell learning. The minimum a Mage can have is 9 (allows casting up to 4th level) but also has a crappy 35% learn chance (they still get 1 more known spell per level then a sorc does though, 7 vs 6).

    I just found it odd that they left out the minimum required int, which is a mandatory rule, while known spells per level is an optional rule.
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    @ZanathKariashi. I recently tried a Bard with an INT of 14. Even though the spell learning ability is just over 50%, there were quite a few failures. The only way I solved the problem was to buy potions of INT or sometimes to reload when it became particularly frustrating. Your post indicates that you've played a Bard with INT 13 (and you implied that anything over 50% is just as likely to succeed as 96%). Can you expand on that? How did you handle it?
  • raelcariraelcari Member Posts: 133
    well, I'm obsessive when it comes to stat rolling and naturally assumed that you 'pros' were as well. I'm surprised to read that INT does not serve any meaningful purpose other than success rate at learning spells though... really? (although having to save/load at every attempt to learn spells sure seems annoying enough)
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    raelcari said:

    well, I'm obsessive when it comes to stat rolling and naturally assumed that you 'pros' were as well. I'm surprised to read that INT does not serve any meaningful purpose other than success rate at learning spells though... really? (although having to save/load at every attempt to learn spells sure seems annoying enough)

    And that depends on your difficulty setting!

    The real thing with INT is how many spells/ level that you keep in your spell book.
  • FlashheartFlashheart Member Posts: 125
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, I usually find myself shifting INT points over to DEX for my Mage builds. I'm not too enamoured with WIS either, I don't like bumping a stat that's only relevant for about 1% of the series.

    Now if WIS worked like Planescape Torment, *then* it would be useful.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    @Franco

    About the same as all the times I've had mages with 18....they fail all the damn time, despite being only 8% less then 19 int.

    It's completely luck based. Anything over 50% is just as likely to succeed as anything less then 100%.


    I don't reload, if I fail to learn a spell and can't find another, I just do without. Considering you can get a free wand of fire and wand of lightning immediately after leaving Candlekeep, with enough charges to finish the whole game, if used sparingly, or last until you can afford the one the guy at Durlag's sell, if you spam them at every encounter, no matter how trivial.....you actually don't NEED any spells as a bard (I usually just armor mine up and use him like a fighter...who can use wands and occasionally pre-buff...and it kills absolutely everything).
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