How to use magic and how best to counter it?
Heindrich
Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
As somebody who never played D&D, the magic of BG has been a bit overwhelming, and although I have got to chapter 7 with Dynaheir, Jaheira and a Fighter/Mage PC, I don't feel I have made the most of my casters, and certainly don't feel I have handled enemy mages in the best way possible. So, as I approach the endgame, I'd appreciate it if a veteran could offer some advice on how I can improve my use of magic in BG EE and how to counter enemy casters, particularly if they come in groups.
Apologies in advance for a 'wall of text' thread. I will start by describing what I do and know currently, and then the problems I have encountered...
So in the early game mages usually come at you individually, and my party packed plenty of bows, so I usually just shot them down before they could mess up my party, as arrow strikes conveniently interrupted casts. Offensively I mostly just used Magic Missiles to disrupt enemy casts and contribute dps in a fight where my fighters and archers were not winning with ease. My Fighter/Mage did not even use any spells other than his innate abilities.
In BG Vanilla I loved using Jaheira's Entangle, which cc'd enemies, but did not affect my own party. In EE, since Entangle does affect my own party, I stopped using it entirely. For some reason, I found Web to be less useful in EE compared to Vanilla too, I'm not sure if it was nerfed at all, or if I simply needed it less because my characters had far more hp in EE compared to Vanilla, so I was happy to engage in melee alot of the time.
By the midgame, enemy casters quite often came in groups, so it was impossible to prevent all of them from casting with archery, but by then my party was tough enough to take some damage and hit hard enough in melee to bring down most squishy mages quickly. Quite often, I'd lose control of 3 or 4 characters to Horror, Confusion or other cc spells, but still somehow hack the enemy mages to death with brute force. I even managed to win the battle at the top level of Candlekeep despite having control of just Dynaheir at one stage. (That was a close one!)
Although I managed to scrape through those engagements, I just don't think that's how it was 'meant to be done'. So... I guess if I were to be asking about more specific issues...
1) How do I deal with incoming cc spells? Almost every mage you come across throws Horror or Confusion at you shortly after casting their own defensive spells. I sometimes drink Potion of Magic Protection (50% Magic Resist), but 50% certainly does not mean immunity, and quite often multiple enemies cast multiple cc spells, so pretty soon even my protected characters start to run off in all directions, pulling more enemies, triggering traps etc...
I use my potion and scrolls of magic protection very sparingly, because they don't drop often, they are expensive in shops, and most shops don't have many, if they have it at all. In the case of scrolls, it is rather annoying that they cancel any magical buffs I provide my party too.
2) I find it difficult to use 'Dispel', quite often it seems I cannot target an enemy mage because of whatever defensive spell they have cast (which is the whole reason why I am trying to cast dispel in the first place!) When I try to dispel cc effects on my own party, it often does not work, either because the spell has no effect, or my Horror'd character has ran off the screen by the time the spell is cast. Even if it did work, enemy mages cast far more cc spells than I have dispels memorised, especially given that Dispel is 3rd level, which also has lovely fireballs...
3) In terms of using magic proactively, Dynaheir (lv 7) just throws fireballs against packs of enemies and Magic Missiles against individuals or to disrupt enemy casters. I rarely use anything else in battle and don't really know what else is useful.
4) My Fighter/Mage Charname is lv6/6 and still mostly a fighter, but now that he has decent spells, I sometimes take off his armour and cast Ghost Armour and Strength, and fight as a capable warrior that also throws out Magic Missiles and Fireballs. Again I am not sure if there are other effective combos out there.
So... any advice on how I can use Dynaheir and my Charname more effectively?
Thanks.
Apologies in advance for a 'wall of text' thread. I will start by describing what I do and know currently, and then the problems I have encountered...
So in the early game mages usually come at you individually, and my party packed plenty of bows, so I usually just shot them down before they could mess up my party, as arrow strikes conveniently interrupted casts. Offensively I mostly just used Magic Missiles to disrupt enemy casts and contribute dps in a fight where my fighters and archers were not winning with ease. My Fighter/Mage did not even use any spells other than his innate abilities.
In BG Vanilla I loved using Jaheira's Entangle, which cc'd enemies, but did not affect my own party. In EE, since Entangle does affect my own party, I stopped using it entirely. For some reason, I found Web to be less useful in EE compared to Vanilla too, I'm not sure if it was nerfed at all, or if I simply needed it less because my characters had far more hp in EE compared to Vanilla, so I was happy to engage in melee alot of the time.
By the midgame, enemy casters quite often came in groups, so it was impossible to prevent all of them from casting with archery, but by then my party was tough enough to take some damage and hit hard enough in melee to bring down most squishy mages quickly. Quite often, I'd lose control of 3 or 4 characters to Horror, Confusion or other cc spells, but still somehow hack the enemy mages to death with brute force. I even managed to win the battle at the top level of Candlekeep despite having control of just Dynaheir at one stage. (That was a close one!)
Although I managed to scrape through those engagements, I just don't think that's how it was 'meant to be done'. So... I guess if I were to be asking about more specific issues...
1) How do I deal with incoming cc spells? Almost every mage you come across throws Horror or Confusion at you shortly after casting their own defensive spells. I sometimes drink Potion of Magic Protection (50% Magic Resist), but 50% certainly does not mean immunity, and quite often multiple enemies cast multiple cc spells, so pretty soon even my protected characters start to run off in all directions, pulling more enemies, triggering traps etc...
I use my potion and scrolls of magic protection very sparingly, because they don't drop often, they are expensive in shops, and most shops don't have many, if they have it at all. In the case of scrolls, it is rather annoying that they cancel any magical buffs I provide my party too.
2) I find it difficult to use 'Dispel', quite often it seems I cannot target an enemy mage because of whatever defensive spell they have cast (which is the whole reason why I am trying to cast dispel in the first place!) When I try to dispel cc effects on my own party, it often does not work, either because the spell has no effect, or my Horror'd character has ran off the screen by the time the spell is cast. Even if it did work, enemy mages cast far more cc spells than I have dispels memorised, especially given that Dispel is 3rd level, which also has lovely fireballs...
3) In terms of using magic proactively, Dynaheir (lv 7) just throws fireballs against packs of enemies and Magic Missiles against individuals or to disrupt enemy casters. I rarely use anything else in battle and don't really know what else is useful.
4) My Fighter/Mage Charname is lv6/6 and still mostly a fighter, but now that he has decent spells, I sometimes take off his armour and cast Ghost Armour and Strength, and fight as a capable warrior that also throws out Magic Missiles and Fireballs. Again I am not sure if there are other effective combos out there.
So... any advice on how I can use Dynaheir and my Charname more effectively?
Thanks.
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Comments
web + free action on your fighter = destruction
you can attack mages with poison arrows they can't cast spells
backstab with thief
fireball to death (2x fireball is pretty high damage on weak mages)
fighter/mage mirror image ghost armor stoneskin blur haste and go(pretty much my bg2 solo strategy for F/M/T)
cast your own cc
command - cleric
level 2 this blinding something web horror
stinking cloud + skeletons + range weapons
level 4 chaos emotion:something
Sleep, Command, Silence, Web, Stinking Cloud, Entangle, Cloudkill, Improved Invisibility, Glitterdust, and Haste are all really potent spells. And Cloudkill is the only damaging one on the list, and I include it because killing a bunch of guys outright is pretty good crowd control =p
As for using magic for cc... I've struggled to use it effectively because:
1) Even with non-optimised PC stats and NPCs, I can quite easily win most battles in melee. So I don't see the need to waste spells in those fights.
2) A lot of cc spells affect my own party too, which is annoying now that most of my party is melee focused. (That said, I think I can use Web more in the future cos Khalid and Minsc are not affected anymore.)
3) In the tough battles where I feel spells might be useful, the enemy often seem to have magical resistance... or perhaps I am just not using the right spells.
Oh and yes I must try poison arrows! I didn't think of that! That said, alot of enemy mages cast 'Protection Against Normal Missiles' almost immediately.
One is to use your own disabling spells to pre-empt the opponent mage(s). However, with Dynaheir as your only full-time mage, you are a bit light in that department. Worthwhile spells that remain available to her include Slow (a slowed mage take twice as long to cast a spell), Spook and Horror. Useful spells Dynaheir is barred from (but that your F/M can learn) include Confusion, Emotion, Chaos and Greater Malison. Then, of course, there are the spells like Web and Stinking Cloud that you need to be more careful about using (but that can be highly effective).
The other is just overwhelming damage. If your two mages cast damage spells or use Wands of Fire and the rest of the party use Necklaces of Missiles, Potions of Explosions and other such things, the opponent mage(s) will die almost instantly (barring protections).
Another very interesting approach is to fight enemy mages with your own arcane spellcasters, and leave the rest of the party safely out sight (where they can't be confused, scared etc. and get themselves or someone else killed). Mages have some very good protection and anti-protection spells available to them (e.g., Minor Globe of Invulnerability and Spell Thrust) and are in many ways the best at fighting other mages. This is truer for the BG2 spell selection than the BG1 one, however (off-hand I don't know which way BGEE leans).
Oh, there is also the time-honoured tradition of sending in the cannon fodder (summoned critters) first. You don't always have that option, however.
Fireball is very good for suppressing groups of mages, especially low level mages, you might even kill some of them.
Try to practice crowd control spells and tactics against masses of weaker opponents, you'll be more proficient then later in the game when you see more dangerous groups.
Spell casters will generally be fragile throughout, they'll have limited choice and spells to the end of BG. BG2 is when they will start to be a lot more important and powerful. And you will need to develop new tactics continuously. As you get more powerful and resourceful, so will your enemies. that's half the fun!
You don't have to target the mage with dispel, you can cast it on the ground near them as well (it explodes like a fireball into a Dispel-ball). Handy if they're improved invisbility'd or misled.