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Owned objects are highlighted a different colour with Tab key.

00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 266
Currently when you press the Tab key it highlights intractable objects in the game. Red for locked/trapped. Purple for doors and light blue for everything else.

My request is to add a different colour for objects that are owned by an npc that trigger the "guards being summoned" response.

I tend to do a lot of quick saving/loading when I’m looting people’s houses which begins to become tedious. So by adding a new colour such as orange, I can in one glace know if they are owned.

One thing to keep in mind the "trap/locked" red colour would need to override the owned tag. You have to unlock objects first before you can even open it anyway.

Amethis

Comments

  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    As far as I know, objects only glow red *after* you detect the trap. I've never had tab automatically show me a chest was trapped or locked. Also, I am very much against this.. I already have mixed feelings on the tab key in the first place, since it was not in the original game, but it should not automatically tell you if guards are going to be summoned or not. Robbing people is taking a risk ... besides, pro tip - don't steal from a chest where someone can see you, they will call the guards on you. Do it when they are out of sight or knock them unconscious, then rob them.

    Erg
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 266
    I never meant to imply they should or would be red before you detect them. I was only pointing out that the red should override the owned tag, just as red currently overrides the blue tag.

    In the case of people “detecting” you, I don’t mean making the colour change on/off on the fly as the npcs randomly walked around the room Just have it on if it’s owned regardless of how close they are.

    Objects placed in BG seem to be very random in what is considered owned and what isn’t. Example: I might go to a shop and 1 out of the 8 objects will summon the guards while the next shop over they might all activate calling the guards.

    I guess perhaps you could say that this is a bug, and that all objects in people’s homes and shops should have the Owned flag regardless. It all depends how you look at it.

  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    Perhaps you could give some concrete examples of where you feel this is inconsistent. I've always found it to be pretty obvious when the guards will be called based on what/where I'm stealing from. Even if you consider this a "bug", which I don't, and they made it more consistent - I would still not want the highlighting to flag it as "owned" or not "owned". Anytime you pick up something that is not yours, you take the risk of angering somebody who may own it. If anything this would be mod material IMO and not something to be incorporated into the game by default.

    Erg
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    In Beregost, for example, most houses you can rob with the homeowners standing right next to you. But there are a couple who will call the guards. There's no rhyme or reason to it -- whether it's a humble abode or a mansion seems to make no difference. Honestly I'm not sure how anyone can get the impression it's consistent.

    I dunno, this feature would be nice, but wouldn't it be nicer if the rules were consistent instead?

    00zim00TJ_Hooker
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 266
    I agree with @PugPug, the example above was part of the reason i suggested for them to be highlight-able. I noticed it in a lot of houses in the city of Baldurs Gate. i would have to replay the city to pick up any specific houses as they are all looted now. However just making them all consistent might be a much better solution seeing as you could just assume that every object in a house or shop will call the guards without the guess work. That being said, im not sure how easy it would be to change this for EVERY object in every house. Also i cant think of any examples there may be none, but this could make some quest/good items that are normally easy to obtain in houses harder to get if they didn't summon guards before.

  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    I went to one mansion where the private security didn't care if I ransacked the place.

    Selaboc
  • SelabocSelaboc Member Posts: 64
    PugPug said:

    In Beregost, for example, most houses you can rob with the homeowners standing right next to you. But there are a couple who will call the guards. There's no rhyme or reason to it -- whether it's a humble abode or a mansion seems to make no difference. Honestly I'm not sure how anyone can get the impression it's consistent.

    eh, I just assume the guards will be called if there's a civilian in sight and just grab the loot from the containers and high-tail it out the door before the guards show up. no problems.

    SirK8Ergelminster
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 266
    edited February 2013
    I have been finally able to reply to @SirK8 posts asking which areas are affected.
    Loading an old save file from the start of entering the city of Baldurs Gate I quickly went through only a few houses and tested what summoned guards and what didn’t. I always made sure I am in close proximity and in plain sight of people in their homes. I have found many places throughout the game that also have problems but ones i can confirm i had issues with when i tested are below:

    AR0006 (Rinnie's House) Chest calls guards but not the bookshelf’s

    AR0805 (Arkions house) Chest doesn’t summon guards - upstairs works

    AR0803 is an example of a house where all objects summoned guards

    AR0810 (A Shop) The bookshelf at the door summons the guards but the other two don’t

    AR0706 Chest next to Cyrdemac is locked yet he doesn’t care if you open and steal from it lower chest with ruffians don’t care either. Merchants cupboard will summon them as well as Alyths room on this floor both the bookshelf and draws do summon guards

    AR0711 Cupboard summon guards the two chest of draws don’t nor does the sac in the kitchen

    AR0712 (second floor of above) chest of draws will not summon guards

    AR0710 Nothing summons guard’s except the lock draws

    AR0707 Chest doesn’t summon guards

    AR0143 (Glanmarie house) lower bookshelf doesn’t summon guards but upper bookshelf does


    At first I thought this could be an issue with Named NPCs not caring if you steal near them or maybe they are unable to see you steal but I found examples where they could see you.

    Then I thought it might also be related to the contents inside the objects themselves? EG: an empty barrel in the shop doesn’t call the guard which is fine. And for example AR0810 the open able bookshelf’s that don’t call the guards only contain bad items (Heavy Crossbow, 10 bolts and a book of history of the red ravens) Does the "gold" value somehow affect if a guard is summoned or not? However I have changed my mind of this as I have found other bookshelf’s that just contain one book and the guards still get summoned

    Also I noticed an object having a lock or not seem to have no bearing on if they are summoned or not. However it’s more common that a locked object will summon the guards.

    So in conclusion there seems to be no rhyme or reason when it comes to summoning guards when you steal no matter who is around. A commoner, child or a named NPC it seems to be rather random.

    SirK8elminster
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756

    I don't like the idea to add an owner tag to containers. It would be as silly as adding an exclamation mark over the head of a quest giver or such other aids so frequent in modern games.

    From a roleplaying perspective you just have to assume that everything in a commoner house or a store is owned by someone, whether the guards are summoned or not.

    In case you are wondering why not all containers behave in the same manner, the script that summons the guard is implemented as an undetectable and unremovable trap attached to the container. Some containers just don't have one.

    elminster
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 266
    You’re probably correct with the highlighting of the owned containers being a step in the wrong direction.
    It’s not really game breaking to keep everything as is. How it works currently is just annoying and breaks immersion more than anything else imo xD

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    I would rather keep things as they are, but I would also be fine with the idea of making the game more consistent by increasing the number of containers scripted to trigger guards.

    elminsteralnair
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 905
    I think the real problem that needs to be resolved here is the erratic and often disproportionate response to stealing.

    If you murder someone in the street, no-one will call the guards.

    If you have a look at a bookcase, guards may be summoned.

    I think there needs to be a greater range of ways you can deal with summoned guards (e.g. using charisma to persuade them to leave without fighting, or to take a fine). To be killed for stealing three gold, but not for murdering an innocent, destroys the immersion for me.

    SirK8elminsteralnair
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756

    I think the real problem that needs to be resolved here is the erratic and often disproportionate response to stealing.

    If you murder someone in the street, no-one will call the guards.

    If you have a look at a bookcase, guards may be summoned.

    I think there needs to be a greater range of ways you can deal with summoned guards (e.g. using charisma to persuade them to leave without fighting, or to take a fine). To be killed for stealing three gold, but not for murdering an innocent, destroys the immersion for me.

    I partially agree. The overall reputation system is not very well implemented in BG. It is one of the few cases where the age of the game shows in a non positive manner. However, already there are more options available then what you are implying with your post.

    For instance, you can bribe Amnish Soldiers (e.g. if caught stealing in Nashkel), but not Flaming Fists.

    Anyway, the best strategy to deal with guards is just running away. They will be gone after a while and you can safely come back.

    I agree that it is weird that guards are not summoned when you murder innocents, but that it balanced somehow by the rather steep reputation decrease, which in turn may trigger guards spawning and or attacking on sight if the reputation become too low.

    Granted it isn't a perfect system, but it is not so completely broken either.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    CrevsDaak
  • FrecheFreche Member Posts: 473
    Kirkor said:

    I like how I robbed house where the only creature inside was a cat. HE called guards on me ;_;

    I'm quite sure I had a sleeping (he was snoring iirc) person call the guard on me.

  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    @Freche - are you sure this happened in BG:EE? I recall them specifically mentioning this as changed early on when they were squashing bugs and the like prior to release. I consistently rob houses/rooms with sleepers and have never had the guards called on me by one.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,948
    I'll be putting this down in my feature request list but do you 00zim00 have any preference for a solution to this? (making rules around what calls guards more consistent, changing owned chest highlighting colour, etc)

  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 266
    Ill be happy to give my opinion @elminster

    Off the top of my head this is what I can come up with. Others feel free to make suggestions, and not all of these changes need to be implemented to solve the problem.

    Simple answer would be to make any container that is flagged to summon guards a light orange.

    A more detailed an potentially game changing suggestion would be, if the npc who owns the lootable container is within sight radius of lootable container AND you can see the npc also (aka you can clearly see that they can see the chest your wanting to open) .Then it highlights a light orange indicating if you attempt to open the chest it will summon the guards/make them hostile (red/trap supersedes this in visual priority)

    If a container is orange you can use your pickpocket skill vs the npc watching in order to access the loot container undetected. (Unlocking the chest supersedes this). You get a penalty or bonus to rolls depending on the quality of the loot. Eg: empty container nearly always succeeds. As well as containers full of common items, basic ammunition, non-magic items. I guess the same scaling ratio of open locks but you use pickpocketing.

    If either player or npc are invisible or similar, bonuses or penalties should apply. So if the owner npc for whatever reason is invisible then it won't turn orange because you can’t see them watching you/the container. Likewise if you are invisible you then if then attempt to loot it, you get some bonus added to your Check. Maybe a + or -4.

    I have no idea how the loot system works in the engine. Ideally if you can automate this for every container in game and not do it by hand lol.

    Any questions or something you want me to elaborate on let me know :)

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,948
    edited August 2013
    I really wasn't looking for elaboration so much as clarification. I'm listing out feature requests and wasn't sure what to put. I put down "Highlighting a different colour when using tab key in the case of owned/guarded chests" ... I'm not really planning on much more but I can put in light orange if thats what you wanted.

  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 266
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