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Best Paladin?

I know nothing about Paladin, but want one as for the co-op runs with a friend.

Cavalier or inquisitor?

Cavalier seems better for singelplayer, but inquisitor seems great with its dispel for co-op, especially for a newcomer who might be charmed/fear etc often vs mages.
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Comments

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited July 2013
    cavalier for party play as dps buffer
    inquisitor for solo small party debuffer anty-mage
    black guard is much stronger than both with poison skill he may be even stronger than fighter/cleric

    but for bg:ee bg1 i propose fighter/cleric dwarf because his spells are much better(earlier) than cavalier and he is almost paladin-like paladins shine in bg2 levels
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,151
    I think paladin is unique in that all the kits are pretty useful. Really, I wouldn't worry too much about power gaming it, you'll be able to get good use out of whichever you choose.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I'm not touching on Blackguard, I just don't know enough about it.

    Cavalier has some very useful resists and immunities. He's one of the best tanks in the game. Poison and Mind Control are major pains in the butt and having innate resistance to fire means its easier to hit 100 Fire Resistance with him. If you give him the two rings and the helmet you're in really really good shape.

    The Inquisitor is good for smacking mages around. He gets things like True Seeing and Dispel Magic so mages' protections vanish in a hurry. Those aren't really too much of an issue in the first game though, but he's terribly useful in the rest of the series.
  • AltWrenAltWren Member Posts: 11
    Inquisitor is better for is at-will abilities. Paladins get a bonus to saving throws to help protect him against, say, hold or fear spells, then he can quickly dispel any of his friends that did get hit.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    hahahhahaha, ah, those two memes were great, and to answer the question, go with inquisitor, their dispel magic and true seeing, will be a great tool for a beginner, both of which for the inquisitor is extremely powerful, plus because you get those 2 abilities, you get no turn undead, no lay on hands, no spells bleh bleh blah, which makes managing your paladin much easier, because classes with lots of special abilities can be a little overwhelming for beginners, so go with inquisitor and I think you will be happy :)
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,580
    I know this wasn't the TS's question, but where do people rank the undead hunter among the paladin classes?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315

    I know this wasn't the TS's question, but where do people rank the undead hunter among the paladin classes?

    Great for new players to BG2 who aren't sure what they are doing particularly against vampires.

    For everyone else they are the worst choice among kits. I mean they are better than the default paladin but thats it. There are just enough ways to deal with undead that their bonuses become redundant.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Aka, Bioware just F'd up the implementation....

    The PnP Undead hunter is pretty much identical to the inquisitor. Except his dispel is every 4 levels and he can turn undead, and does so equal to his level, instead of 2 less. (his only immunity, aside from normal paladin disease immunity, is to paralysis/hold). Except where specified, it loses everything the inquisitor does.

    Meanwhile the inquisitor is dispel every 3 levels, and 5% chance each round, per level of seeing through illusions (doesn't dispel them, the inquisitor simply ignores the effects of the spell...i.e. they can see through Invisibility if their roll succeeds) (I would've replaced the true sight implemented in BG2 with a passive, always active detect illusion that gains 5% per level). And they're immune to charm.


    The plethora of options to trivialize level drain is truly depressing. Considering it's supposed to be the most dangerous effect in the game. Rendered a mere inconvenience, as discussed more in-depth in that feature request regarding level drain.


    I prefer the cavalier myself....the fear immunity is awesome, the poison immunity is awesome, the charm immunity is awesome. They get full paladin abilities, and only lose the ability to use ranged weapons that lack a melee component. (still wouldn't mind seeing PnP-accurate kits.......the base paladin should NOT be out-done by it's kits).
  • TyranusTyranus Member Posts: 268
    Inquisitors are the best all around. The toughest fights melee-oriented characters have are against annoying Mages dropping Misleads, Pro. Magic Weapons, and Stoneskin/Mirror Image. Inquisitors shrug and smash face in those situations.

    Cavaliers are very strong in BG1, but less so in BG2 in my opinion. Fear, Poison, and Charm effects are deadly at low levels, and Cavaliers let you always have a tank ready to go to peel mobs off your casters. Like the Inquisitors, you can solo farm Sirens from the get go to level a few times before picking up the rest of your party.

    Undead Hunters are easily the weakest of the kits. Level Drain sucks, it really does, but Restoration scrolls are easy to come across and Greater Restoration should be main slotted on your Cleric anyway once you get it. The bonuses against Undead are nice throughout BG2, but less so during BG1, when the toughest undead you face is the Ichoryd.

    So, in summary, Inquisitor (BG1 + BG2) = Cavalier (BG1 ONLY) > Cavalier > Undead Hunter
  • EdwinEdwin Member Posts: 480
    Fluttershy
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited July 2013
    Actually...Cavaliers really come into their own in BG2. In BG1, the fact they get spell casting never comes up, due to being at level 9th with an 8th level cap. Hence the Inquistor has no real penalties in BG1.

    In BG2, due to the F'd up caster level progression for paladin/rangers, a Cavalier (and UD Hunter and regular paladin) casts their spells AT level. Instead of 9 levels lower with a max of 9.

    AoF at level 1, for DR goodness, DUHM at 2nd level for MASSIVE boosts to their physical abilities (and no, I don't include the BS powers for this discussion because they are not a long-term solution and even then the cavalier gets extra casts of DUHM), Dispel Magic at 3rd level...since there's really nothing else worth taking (not as strong as the inquisitors, but as strong as a mage or clerics, which are strong enough). 4th is whatever you want. Plenty of OH-$%#^ recovery options, due to being immune to fear and having a mass-remove fear to cast, emergency heal via LoH, can cast PfE for several benefits all around.

    And of course...holy swords become available in BG with dispel on hit.


    Soooo....actually the Inquisitor is the one who is under-powered and useless in BG2, because he's a fighter with 1 useful, but limited per day trick (and no GM) (that is useless vs PfMW anyway, meaning it's completely worthless) trick (a thief can dispel illusions all day long instantly, and every party should have one, so his truesight is a non-issue), where as the other paladin kits/true-class basically become F/Cs instead.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • ambrennanambrennan Member Posts: 173
    Being a total noob I'd say undead hunter - fear and poison are easy to deal with (1st/2nd level priest spell respectively), confusion is expensive but chaotic commands has no downside whilst protection from being held (free action) is expensive *and cancels haste.*
  • OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
    Let's go Kit by kit now shall we.

    Vanilla: Good for every situation, but really doesn't excel in any either. Can provide heals and buffs at higher levels and Lay on hands is a life saver because of it's instants casting time.

    Cavalier: Major tank orientation and definitely the first dude in combat. +3 vs all fiendish and draconic creatures definite plus for high levels, and immune to fear, poison, morale failure, AND charm. The ability to cast Remove Fear will save your life at low levels and free a slot or two for fellow mages and clerics. 20% resistance to Fire and Acid. Drawbacks Can not use ranged weapons, except for throwing axes, which are badass. <---- OP AS F**K, HIGHLY RECOMMEND!

    Inquisitor: Immune to hold and charm. Gains True Sight and Dispel Magic. Great for earlier levels and a solid anti-mage tank. But I find the removal of all other paladin abilities really is too much for the 2 spells that mages can provide.

    Undead Hunter: Lose Lay on Hands for a +3 against undead and immunity to level drain and hold. Are vampires REALLY that big of a deal to you?

    Blackgaurd: Pretty much a paladin is reversed abilities. Absorb health is great because it deals damage on top of healing you but you can't heal other party members with it. Their poison is always useful and Aura of despair is a great scaling ability. <--- RECOMMEND!
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited August 2013
    Cavalier can use thrown daggers too (but only if they have a melee mode, which is a requirement in PnP as well)...and if Hammer of Thunderbolts or Crom were properly implemented or non-dwarf required hammer was present, they could use thrown hammers as well.
  • ambrennanambrennan Member Posts: 173
    Undead Hunter: Lose Lay on Hands for a +3 against undead and immunity to level drain and hold. Are vampires REALLY that big of a deal to you?
    Then there are greater ghasts, two bosses in Durlag's Tower, mindflayers, etc.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    ambrennan said:

    Undead Hunter: Lose Lay on Hands for a +3 against undead and immunity to level drain and hold. Are vampires REALLY that big of a deal to you?
    Then there are greater ghasts, two bosses in Durlag's Tower, mindflayers, etc.

    Carrion crawlers as well. At least when it comes to hold. They still come up occasionally in bg2.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited August 2013
    To be honest the first time I ever beat ToB it was with an undead hunter. I was still feeling like a powerhouse and not knowing about things like protection from undead scrolls it was pretty nice to not have to worry about level drain. Particularly for those random vampire encounter battles at night (in SoA). Get the vampires to swarm on undead hunter and then blast them with holy smite/ sunray :D
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    inquisitor is superb with his massive dispell and insta true sight that mages/clerics don't need to memorize no need for thief in party for ilusions and holy avenger user is pretty good i would say

    cavalier is more of f/c as someone said and he is better at this than inquisitor but inquisitor is much better at fighting mages
  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    Cavalier because it's the only kit without a downside, since the "no missiles" is so easy to circumvent(and not a big deal even if it wasn't).

    Inquisitor is strong but loses almost all Paladin specific bonuses. Plus if I remember correctly there are high level defensive spells that simply cannot be dispelled.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345

    Plus if I remember correctly there are high level defensive spells that simply cannot be dispelled.

    Most spell protections can't be dispelled, but neither do they (except protection from magic and possibly spell immunity) prevent dispel magic from stripping away everything else. And no caster except a demilich can stand up against a party for very long (or get a lot of spells off) without protection from physical damage.

    The power of inquisitors isn't all that noticeable in vanilla since the vanilla AI plays casters too stupidly to make them all that dangerous. With mods like SCS though, being able to dispel magic at twice your level is absurdly powerful.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    True Seeing is never a bad thing to have. It takes the teeth out of a lot of the encounters in BG like the Sirens with improved invisibility. But Inquisitors really shine in the next game.
  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    Shin said:

    And no caster except a demilich can stand up against a party for very long (or get a lot of spells off) without protection from physical damage.

    Does Dispel Magic work against Stone Skin then? Because I think that is by far the most popular physical defense spell.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    @blackchimes Yes it does. And it's a fairly effective defense in BG1, but later on as attacks per round and accuracy go up and as weapons that deal elemental damage appears it gets to be less and less useful.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Yeah...stoneskin is basically worthless though once you get access to elemental weapons, since it only blocks physical damage. FoA hits with so many ticks of damage, the enemy pretty much is garunteed to be interuppted. (it's still cheap as %$^# that you get interrupted for an enemy thinking in your general direction, while they can take being smashed into the face up to 3 hits on occasion. And that doesn't touch the blatant cheaters who use scripted spells).
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    there is 1 spell that stops dispell it is immunity: abjuration and it was introducted in bg2 and only scsii makes AI use it
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2013
    zur312 said:

    there is 1 spell that stops dispell it is immunity: abjuration and it was introducted in bg2 and only scsii makes AI use it

    Indeed. SI:abjuration isn't an optimal solution either, as it's used so ubiquitously it tends to make ruby ray of reversal the most essential protection piercer, better than spellstrike even. On the other hand, there's not a whole lot of (non-cheesy) alternatives to it.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    inqisitor is kind of OP in scsii installations
    for example lich/mage with spellshield spell trap and absolute immunity
    you need 2x rubyray 1x breach to be able to hit the mage with a weapon so that means 3 rounds or 3 mages
    inqisitor need just 1 round of instacating his 200% better dispell and lich is dead :)
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