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Entertainment Absurdities

BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
Honestly, in 99% of these game with the romance subplots it seems a bit childish to be chasing tail when the stakes are often so great. The only games I've played where they really make sense to include have been skyrim or fable which continue on after (insert big bad giant event here) or KOTR where the romance became an integral part of the game plot rather than a sideshow. I mean if you think about it, Han Solo didn't even really hook up with Leia until after they blew up the second death star.

This brings me to my next point, WTF evil empire? You're telling me you can fit a power source onto your space station large enough to power a gianormous death-ray that can obliterate a planet, but you need to put your shield generator on a moon? I thought the death star was as big as a moon? What, did they run out of real estate up there, or is your superweapon simply powered by Ewok tears? Oh, dish projection you say? So let me get this straight, you have the ingenuity to build this super-awesome gun but you can't figure that maybe putting an elaborate grid of towers with a shield dish on them which emits a shielding source onto your I don't know how expensive space station might be a good idea? Well at the very least you have one inside the core chamber protecting the core, right? No??? I have no words, your superweapon architects are terrible. Either that or you use the same physics that Kirk did to come to the conclusion that ejecting warp cores in front of a black hole was a great idea.

And don't even get me started with the whole "Miraculously saved by Rocs" thing at the end of Lord of the Rings.

Heindrich

Comments

  • Morte50Morte50 Member Posts: 161
    I think the romances aren't actually *that* implausible. It's effectively a highly condensed work-place environment, high stakes, shared company 24/7. Doesn't seem that unlikely that some romance and such would ensue. Do also keep in mind that from the character's perspective a lot more time is passing than the few seconds it takes you to transition from one map to another. A lot of time is also spent simply travelling and otherwise out of immediate danger.

    It annoys me more in movies to be honest. The fact that it is usually so utterly predictable doesn't help (romantic subplots being shoved into pretty much any genre of film, these days), but it would behoove them to at least have a somewhat healthy sense of priorities. Let's wait with the emotional reunion/fight/make-out session until AFTER escaping the villains lair/defusing the bomb/shooting the gun-toting lunatic, shall we?

    As for the glaring plot-holes in films like LotR and Star Wars (and many many many many many (etc.) others), yeah... that's usually just bad writing. Technobabble is excusable, but slightly sane design choices...? Pretty please? Or for that matter, slightly sane decision making generally (oh look, a new and unknown planet: from our 1000+ crew manifest, let's gratuitously beam down the entire senior command to explore *sigh*).

    Oh well, it fun to rant at movies sometimes :-D.

  • BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
    @Morte50
    Are you saying that transition times allow for peaceful dialogue which could lead to a budding romance? Sir, I dost believe we playeth two different games. As you can see by the provided image - this is what a peaceful stroll through the countryside looks like in BG.

    Do you have any idea how many Wyverns I have killed? ALL OF THEM. Afterwards, very few people want to get smexy with some dude covered in wyvern blood and spider goop. I'm not entirely sure why but it seems to ruin the mood.

    46.jpg 159.1K
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,250
    I don't see how an eco-system could support that many large venomous, carnivorous reptiles... but I guess we tend to let it go because it's a game, and in a game you need enemies to fight. There are little things we tend to let go in movies as well, because we know it's to get the plot moving along... like it seems to always happen in detective stories that the detective will sneak into the crime scene, and even though there's no way they could perform a thorough search in the two minutes they have there, they will almost inevitably discover some vital clue that the entire police department with their forensic teams somehow missed, because it was hidden under a table leg or something... if only they'd thought of moving the table. But no, audiences seem to let it go.

    Battlehamster
  • BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
    Coutelier said:

    I don't see how an eco-system could support that many large venomous, carnivorous reptiles...

    Yeah, although it does explain why elves whom live for centuries have small populations. Clearly their natural predators are spiders and wyverns, and during this particular period of time in Faerun, Wyvern carrying capacity was reached only recently. I think all we really need to solve this mystery is a detective with the power of rock lifting.

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959

    @Morte50
    Are you saying that transition times allow for peaceful dialogue which could lead to a budding romance? Sir, I dost believe we playeth two different games. As you can see by the provided image - this is what a peaceful stroll through the countryside looks like in BG.

    Do you have any idea how many Wyverns I have killed? ALL OF THEM. Afterwards, very few people want to get smexy with some dude covered in wyvern blood and spider goop. I'm not entirely sure why but it seems to ruin the mood.

    Honestly, compared with the movies... a bit of romance in BG isn't so far-fetched. As Morte said, shared suffering and life and death experiences do tend to bring people closer. Also the plot of Baldur's Gate is surprisingly well thought out, consistent and logical for a game. What I mean by that is... I can complete the game even if I sensibly roleplay a character (who is either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid, granted) through all the decisions he has to make. At not point did I wonder, 'oh come on! we got gaint flying birds, why don't we just fly there!' in BG. This is also true for BG 2, or at least up till where I've got with the game.

    There are countless movies where the good guys seem all but doomed, but then somebody makes an inspirational speech, suddenly the good guys stop dying and all the baddies run like panicked children. Then there's Asian war movies/dramas that love to exaggerate how amazingly brilliant a hero is, so they randomly create all sorts of illogical 'stratagems' that work perfectly somehow, even though an enemy with two brain-cells could do something simple to counter, or even worse, when the enemy did something similar, it is totally ineffective.

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959

    Coutelier said:

    I don't see how an eco-system could support that many large venomous, carnivorous reptiles...

    Yeah, although it does explain why elves whom live for centuries have small populations. Clearly their natural predators are spiders and wyverns, and during this particular period of time in Faerun, Wyvern carrying capacity was reached only recently. I think all we really need to solve this mystery is a detective with the power of rock lifting.
    I always imagined elves didn't breed much. Like most animals have breeding season, which for a panda, means 2 days a year. So for elves, maybe its once a century :D

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,450
    edited August 2013
    I have three words in response to this topic:

    "Suspension" "of" "disbelief".

    Oh, okay, four words:

    "Catharsis."

    Oh, okay, and a name, does that count as a fifth word?:

    "Shakespeare".

    Oh, okay, I'm on a roll, let's add a seventh and an eighth word:

    "Greek" "Tragedy".

    Hey, as long as I've "gone there" with those pesky Greeks, how about a ninth word:

    "Epic".

    Well, shoot, I guess I should invoke a second name, now. Is that a tenth word?

    "Homer".

    Well, darn, I've used so many words now, I may as well add an eleventh:

    "Theater".

    Here's number twelve, a mystically important number of words. May I add a name along with it, which could be seen to bring my number of words to an evil thirteen?

    "Jungian" "archetypes".

  • Morte50Morte50 Member Posts: 161
    Loads of words, but the fact remains that belief can only be suspended so far. At some point, it just becomes bad writing.

    BattlehamsterKidCarnival
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,450
    Okay, I'll be less pithy and stop attempting to be clever, then.

    A story or myth has done its job when it strikes the reader, listener, or viewer at a deep psychological level, provides meaning and/or insight, and invokes the numinous.

    If Star Wars, or Baldur's Gate, failed to do any of that for you, then indeed, they are failures as stories or myths in your world.

    I kind of pity you, though, if your requirements for suspension of disbelief in order to be transported to a state of catharsis are that stringent.

    And, if Star Wars fails to do it for you, well, again, I pity you, but it did do it for millions or maybe even over a billion human beings. That's a win, in my world.

  • Morte50Morte50 Member Posts: 161
    edited August 2013
    Right, because spouting Literature 101 is pithy and clever. And honestly, a state of catharsis? This is Star Wars we're talking about, a Citizen Kane it is not. The odd nerdgasm aside, we can reasonably predict that the majority of people who saw it found it to be an alright (series of) movie(s), but were not profoundly affected by it one way or the other. And that's fine, movies for the most part are just light entertainment. They are generally not intended to, nor is it their job, to "strike the viewer at a deep psychological level". Sure, some of them are intended as such, and though most of those amount to little more than pretentious drivel a select few actually do manage to do so. But please let's not pretend that the average book or movie (etc.) is (intended as) anything other than a couple of hours of largely forgettable entertainment.

    As for my apparently pitiful requirements when it comes to suspension of disbelief, two things. First, a tip if you are ever interested in an actual discussion with someone: try to avoid saying things like 'I pity you'. It kind of makes you come across as an arrogant prick.

    Second, I am perfectly willing to suspend disbelief, but there are limits. A writer can certainly stretch the bounds of plausibility, a skilled writer very much so. But if it becomes too obvious, too glaring, when it stops making sense, the experience just breaks down. A writer can't just make up whatever he wants and expect the reader/viewer to buy it. If the writer doesn't (seem to) put in the effort to make a coherent and believable story, then why would the audience invest in it? They could also have a random mook trip and fall onto the Death Star's self-destruct button, that would neatly wrap up the plot as well. Certainly, the actual plot is a few levels above that. But having the plot hinge on stupifyingly bad design isn't exactly a work of creative genius either. Giving the bad guys such an Achilles' heel (speaking of plot holes...) is one thing, but at the very least make *some* effort to make it convincing. As is, the only reasonable explanation seems to be that the engineers put it there on purpose (apparently a common issue in the Star Wars universe).

  • BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
    edited August 2013
    Let me get something straight - I am a star wars geek. I enjoy watching it. Just because I like something doesn't mean I'm going to not going to poke a stick at how bad the science is. Also, George Lucas was NOT a literary genius. I think ep. 1-3 proved this. Star Wars is enjoyable because it was groundbreaking with sci-fi and more importantly, special effects.

    You CAN like things for reasons other than the plot. Also, if you have the entirely subjective opinion of displaying pity for someone simply because their opinion on an aesthetic varies from your own, please keep it to yourself. It makes you come off as pompous and self-agrandizing. Agree to disagree, don't display "pity" as it insinuates the belief that you view yout opinion on a subjective matter as superior despite the fact that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Sorry for the rant, but I get frustrated when I see someone who is clearly intelligent to make pointless insults which serve no apparent purpose. It makes me explode into my berzerker hamster forum rage.

  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,250
    edited August 2013
    I like Star Wars, but I've no problem with anyone pointing out it's flaws. The characters are all pretty shallow archetypes, most of the dialogue is terrible, and there are big holes in the plot... yet I still like it. Maybe it's because of having grown up with it that it has such fond associations. But I'm the same with other films I like. Jurassic Park, for example... why? Why would you put those switches way over there, in the part of the island you know would be the most dangerous should the power ever be cut?

    I think you can enjoy films in different ways. I can suspend all my disbelief the first time I watch something if it hooks me quick enough. After the second or third time, I think it sort of becomes fun to look for mistakes and flaws. But I still enjoy them.

    But then, I do also have a certain affection for films that are just plain bad as well. Like Ed Wood's 'Plan 9 From Outer Space' - critically acclaimed as the worst film ever made. So bad, it's funny I suppose. With the wobbly tombstones, bad acting, and really, there were eight other plans before you came up with this one?

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,450
    @Morte50, hookay, I guess I deserved that. My apologies for offending you. My geeky Star Wars love got the best of me.

    [Deleted User]Battlehamsteralnair
  • Morte50Morte50 Member Posts: 161
    Thank you. Apology, of course, accepted.

    alnair
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