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Spoiler: Why side with Bodhi?

BaxyrattyBaxyratty Member Posts: 190
in Archive (General Discussion)
This is out of curiosity, but why do your characters side with Bodhi if they do? She basically tells you that she's irenicus' sister and will betray you, so why side with her?

I usually rp my characters as hating the shadow thieves more for putting a price on Imoen, or being attracted to/enthralled by Bodhi's presence. But why do you side with her if you do?

Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    edited September 2013
    There can be a number of arguments made for the choice.

    She's a vampire matriarch, a powerful creature with powerful servants. It may very well be that the Shadow Thieves cannot hold up to such strength, and as such would not be able to help CHARNAME even if they wanted to. Additionally, it is clear that the Shadow Thieves were trying to deceive CHARNAME in some way, while Bodhi is fairly upfront about her nature and intent.

    She's Irenicus' sister, and as such hold intimate knowledge that CHARNAME could hope to coax out of her. Even realizing her betrayal, it may still be a wise choice to get closer to a close associate of Irenicus and gather information, given willingly or unwittingly. There may even be a hope of driving a wedge between the siblings, or playing them against each other.

    I'm sure people can come up with more, but those have always been my main two points of consideration. Not that I side with her, but that's more because her lair is easier and faster to clear than the Shadow Thieves HQ with its long tunnels and weird contraptions... yeah, not very inspired, but what can I say, I'm lazy :P
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited September 2013
    If you choose dialogue options that are more in favour of finding imoen (over revenge against Irenicus) charname would not know she was in league with him (only that she has an "interest" in him). At least until you actually pay her the 15,000. Now (in this kind of a scenario) why you'd side with a vampire I can't say.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    When I side with Bodhi I usually RP it as a combination of two things:

    - Interest and enthrallment in/by Bodhi (as I think of her as an extremely charismatic and persuasive being even without use of her mind-controlling powers) as mentioned in the OP.

    - Like Lord_Tansheron brings up, my characters also tend to be drawn in by the idea that they can extract firsthand knowledge of Imoen and Irenicus from Bodhi. If this was possible (which confident characters have every reason to believe it could be), inside information like that could significantly shorten the path to accomplishing your goals compared to going through the Shadow Thieves, and also give insights into Irenicus's motivations and possible weaknesses.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Clearly because she is cuter than the alternative.
    And I see no reason as to why should I side with the lesser, less interesting evil.
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    Unless I'm a good char I'll usually side with Bodhi. From an RPing perspective my chars are more likely to trust someone who's up front about their intentions compared to someone who's hiding the truth. From a meta gaming perspective siding with Bodhi means less time level drained.

    @Baxyratty You might be interested in this thread. It's a bodhi vs shadow thieves debate.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/6597/bg2-do-you-side-with-bodhi-or-the-shadow-thieves
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Going by meta/power gaming, Bodhi is probably the choice simply because you will want to kill Renal Bloodscalp for his boots, and afaik that gives you problems with the other Shadow Thieves. You can kill him after you return from the Underdark of course, but that's not optimal.

    Item-wise, you also get slightly more "unique" items by siding with Bodhi, though you do get the most powerful ones (Amulet of Power/Ring of Protection+2) quite a bit later. XP-wise, I believe the Shadow Thieves have an advantage, both because the quest reward XP is higher and because killing vampires nets more XP than killing thieves. It's not a big gap, though.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Not really on topic but one thing to grab before siding with Bodhi are the glasses of identification. You can get them elsewhere, but they are pretty handy to have.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Well...I guess you will never understand that when you are NOT IN TEAM EDWARD!
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited September 2013
    Two reasons, at least for my character.

    The first was pragmatic: at that point in the game, my party wouldn't have done very well in combat against vampires. (Granted, it might be different in BG2:EE since Dorn is immune to level drain.)

    The second was more to do with Neutral Evil RP: I was going to betray my "benefactor" the first chance I got. Getting close to Bodhi was a perfect way to gather intelligence and prepare my eventual assault on her lair.
  • doggydoggy Member Posts: 313
    When siding with bodhi you get the possibility first to rid the city of thieves and afterwards cleaning out vampires. Normally I side with the thieves, especially when playing good alignment parties
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Shin said:

    When I side with Bodhi I usually RP it as a combination of two things:

    - Interest and enthrallment in/by Bodhi (as I think of her as an extremely charismatic and persuasive being even without use of her mind-controlling powers) as mentioned in the OP.

    - Like Lord_Tansheron brings up, my characters also tend to be drawn in by the idea that they can extract firsthand knowledge of Imoen and Irenicus from Bodhi. If this was possible (which confident characters have every reason to believe it could be), inside information like that could significantly shorten the path to accomplishing your goals compared to going through the Shadow Thieves, and also give insights into Irenicus's motivations and possible weaknesses.

    I like these. I know my Blackguard is going to be a bit captivated by her beauty, charisma, and dark, predatory aspect.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,580
    The shadow thieves are a well-known evil, and have unofficial control over most of the city. You receive several warnings along the way not to join the shadow thieves, and many complaints from local townspeople about the lawlessness.

    As a good character, siding with Bodhi is a chance to break a notoriously evil organization's grip over the city. Bodhi's group is comparatively unknown and you may simply be naive to what she truly represents (although I wouldn't side with her as a paladin, since I figure a paladin would be better able to sense her "unnatural"-ness).

    As an neutral character, you may believe that the shadow thieves have become too powerful, and siding with Bodhi is a chance to restore the balance of power. Or, you simply believe that Bodhi offers you the better chance of finding Imoen, and you're otherwise indifferent to who is more evil.

    On a side note, I would argue that the tasks that you end up doing for Bodhi are actually less evil than those that the shadow thieves give you.
  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    Because you've already made the more sensible decision of siding with the Shadow Thieves and want to see all the dialogue and quests associated with the We're-Obviously-Not-Vampires-No-Really guild.
  • ICNICN Member Posts: 61
    Baxyratty said:

    This is out of curiosity, but why do your characters side with Bodhi if they do? She basically tells you that she's irenicus' sister and will betray you, so why side with her?

    I usually rp my characters as hating the shadow thieves more for putting a price on Imoen, or being attracted to/enthralled by Bodhi's presence. But why do you side with her if you do?

    Yeah, the betraying part is a deal-breaker. Luckily, an option presents itself in the local thieves guild, who I know I can trust to keep their word based on their strict adherence to the laws of the city. After all, who's ever heard of a thief stabbing someone in the back, eh?

    Ego can be another reason. She's going to betray me? Yeah, so what? My half-brother killed my father figure, and from nothing I grew powerful enough to slaughter him in his own stronghold. I've killed legions of trolls, swarms of bandits, and even a dragon or two by this point. So bring it on you half dressed tart, I can handle anything you can dish out. So it comes down to a call on who has a better chance of finding Irenicus: His vampire sister who's been brutally honest about her motives, or the friendly man who offers to make Imoen magically appear for a measly five payments of 3999, a man who represents the thieves guild.
  • GreenpaktoGreenpakto Member Posts: 80
    The reason why I side with thieves guild is mainly because I REALLY dont like the feeling of completely empty areas, WHEN theres a chance that, that area could be filled with life. If I join with Bodhi the whole thieves place becomes a tomb. :P I like the fact that NPCs are alive and can be "integrated" with (looking for another word I think).
    If I side with thieves guild I simply feel like I can go back there (free roam feeling).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    SharGuidesMyHand said:

    As a good character, siding with Bodhi is a chance to break a notoriously evil organization's grip over the city. Bodhi's group is comparatively unknown and you may simply be naive to what she truly represents (although I wouldn't side with her as a paladin, since I figure a paladin would be better able to sense her "unnatural"-ness).

    I've used this rationale in the past. It helps that I consider it very plausible for CHARNAME to *not* be aware that Bodhi and their group are vampires prior to joining up with them. Just based off of BG1, you haven't encountered vampires before, so unless you assume that you've read enough about them in various books to be able to positively identify one based on a few brief night encounters, I can easily imagine not having any firm ideas about what Bodhi and her guild are, beyond creepy and suspicious.
  • setsunaluvrsetsunaluvr Member Posts: 29
    I usually side with the Shadow Thieves. In fact, I can't recall ever siding with Bodhi. The Shadow Thieves have offered to take my character to Spellhold for 25000 gold, reduced later to 15000. I already have a deal in place with them, so why should I go with someone new ? There's an old saying about switching horses midstream.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    setsunaluvr said:

    I usually side with the Shadow Thieves. In fact, I can't recall ever siding with Bodhi. The Shadow Thieves have offered to take my character to Spellhold for 25000 gold, reduced later to 15000. I already have a deal in place with them, so why should I go with someone new ? There's an old saying about switching horses midstream.

    It starts out at 20,000 and goes down to 15,000
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359
    edited September 2013
    Metagaming: I fight fewer vampires that way, and I usually play evil.

    Roleplaying: When (usually) playing evil, I enjoy having a vampire ally, and destroying her later is also fun. When playing good, the shadow thieves really pissed me off with their asking price and refusing to give any real answers or be helpful in finding Imoen. I'm not stupid enough to trust Bodhi, and I know she'll turn on me eventually, and I'm ready for it when it comes. As a good (but almost nevarrrr lawful!) character, I have no proble using a vampire to take out the ST, and then taking her out too.

    When playing netural, it's usually chaotic neutral, so it boils down to "Why not? It's fun!"

    Smartass answer: She doesn't sparkle.
  • setsunaluvrsetsunaluvr Member Posts: 29
    elminster said:

    setsunaluvr said:

    I usually side with the Shadow Thieves. In fact, I can't recall ever siding with Bodhi. The Shadow Thieves have offered to take my character to Spellhold for 25000 gold, reduced later to 15000. I already have a deal in place with them, so why should I go with someone new ? There's an old saying about switching horses midstream.

    It starts out at 20,000 and goes down to 15,000
    I couldn't recall whether it was 20 or 25, Thank you for correcting me. Some things are easier to remember than others, and money that I actually pay is more memorable than money that I don't.
  • ShrimpShrimp Member Posts: 142
    To get the MoD earlier, why else? ;)

    Or, on the meta-RP side, when I play an Evil charname I like to get rid of any organization that may oppose my ascension, so I side with Bodhi to destroy the Shadow Thieves, knowing that I will kill her later anyway.

    Of course, with the Rogue Rebalancing mod installed, that's another story...
  • jscohenjscohen Member Posts: 117
    edited September 2013
    Lots of good reasons in here. I kind of wish the original writers had made more out of Bodhi's charisma and supernatural persuasive powers, because it makes a lot of sense.
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